Introducing ACA 1221 Low Cost Accelerator At AmigaKit.com - Page 7

dJOS · 22 July 2015, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vot

Well his unlock model is great then. You can buy the card now. And buy features as you can afford them. Rather than him release two cards one that can never be upgraded and one that is fully unlocked and both with a higher cost as he has to incur the higher costs of producing both.

That is definitely the appealing angle.

Jens can we have an 030 bedroom with fpu socket like this please, then I could prolly afford the base model and sneak the upgrades past my wife electronically later?

Schoenfeld · 22 July 2015, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dJOS

Jens can we have an 030 bedroom with fpu socket like this please,

You did see that the ACA1233 has all preparations for hacking in an FPU? It's just that you need to do it on your own. No support from my side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dJOS

then I could prolly afford the base model and sneak the upgrades past my wife electronically later?

Haven't thought about the WAF (wife-acceptance-factor), but yes, another good one :-)

Jens

modrobert · 22 July 2015, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Before changes to the licensing can be made, the "unprotect" jumper must be set. While a license code is being checked for validity, the whole computer freezes (mouse pointer does not move) for a few seconds. You only get this far if the "unlock" jumper is set, so you're safe when the jumper is open.

I hope you are relying on something better than 'acatune' as an unlock delivery system, because v1.7 has been pretty buggy so far.

For example (first line in s:startup-sequence):

Code:

C:ACATune -maprom * -cache on -burst on

The command above works for my ACA-1232.

Code:

C:ACATune -maprom * -cache on -burst on -vbrmove

The command above fails for me.

Code:

C:ACATune -maprom *
C:ACATune -cache on -burst on -vbrmove

After hours of head scratching I finally found a workaround which works by splitting it into two commands as seen above.

Also, if you use the 'setpatch' binary from MMU lib without actually loading MMU lib at boot, then 'acatune -status' fail to recognize the card properly, giving a completely different ACA model number running at different MHz.

If these type of problems gets mixed in with the critical part of unlocking a licensed feature, then say hello to support meltdown and alienating your fans (aka customers).

fatboy · 22 July 2015, 14:06

this 'pay to unlock' idea works for me

I'm on a very tight budget so the base price is low enough for me to afford the basic model. in a few months time I might be able to afford the unlock codes. just need it for WHD games. so I personally like this idea.

Thorham · 22 July 2015, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Before changes to the licensing can be made, the "unprotect" jumper must be set. While a license code is being checked for validity, the whole computer freezes (mouse pointer does not move) for a few seconds. You only get this far if the "unlock" jumper is set, so you're safe when the jumper is open.

D'oh! Hadn't thought of that

Pretty obvious in retrospect

CrashMidnick · 22 July 2015, 16:45

I do not really like this kind of business model but even if customers unlock the main features, it is still a NEW budget accelarator/ram which is cool (for me maprom and fastest CPU speed). I do not know what can we do with more than 9 mb using a 020, I never used more than 12mb with my blizzard 1230 using OS 3.1.

But IMHO maprom should be free.

I will definitely buy one, not because of the price or the business model but only because this board is very small and it will be perfect with ACA500 on my A1000. My blizzard is too tall and it is quite dangerous to use it as it is too closed to the joystic/mouse ports.

I hope that a day we will see ACA1000 with 2mb chipram mod (or ACA500+ with an addon on for the A1000)

An ACACD32 would be awesome too ! (Yes I know, cost of expansion port...)

Amiga1992 · 22 July 2015, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

So yes, the lower price opens up a whole new group of customers (where only one in this thread has had enough courage to say that he's a customer due to his financial situation - all others prefer to pretend that they can afford anything).

I don't want to pretend I can afford anything, actually I can't (and would appreciate it if your passive aggressive tone would be turned off since I am not attacking you), but I know that this kind of peripheral costs a lot of money to research and produce and I don't expect them to be cheap. I saved for a long time to get an ACA620 and that was a cheap one!!! I appreciate the work put into them and don't want to have the cake and eat it. ~100 quid for an ACA device sounds good to me.

I still don't see how people that have never bought an accelerator or Fast RAM upgrade would go for this. WHDLoad installs are problematic many times and they are not available for every game and demo created. You also need a hard drive/CF solution with a system, all properly installed.
A "casual retrogamer" trying to use their Amiga would be better sorted with a Gotek device than with this. I pretty much GAVE UP on trying to use WHDLoad because I always run into trouble every now and then and now use my CD32 for gaming. I don't even use my A1200 anymore, my A600 with ACA620 works great for everything I need.

Schoenfeld · 22 July 2015, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by modrobert

Code:

C:ACATune -maprom * -cache on -burst on -vbrmove

The command above fails for me.

Thanks for the report. I do know that ACAtune isn't the best source basis to work with, but this bug wasn't reported before. Also, thanks for the workaround.

Quote:

Originally Posted by modrobert

Also, if you use the 'setpatch' binary from MMU lib without actually loading MMU lib at boot, then 'acatune -status' fail to recognize the card properly, giving a completely different ACA model number running at different MHz.

The "common ACA register interface" uses addresses "between the CIA chips", which the MMU lib may block. I'll contact Thor for a fix - thanks for the report.

Quote:

Originally Posted by modrobert

If these type of problems gets mixed in with the critical part of unlocking a licensed feature, then say hello to support meltdown and alienating your fans (aka customers).

Won't happen - licensing is handled by a separate tool called "ACAcontrol", and it does not use the common ACA register interface. All licensing is handled through a 64k autoconfig memory space. The tool is written from scratch, without the hacks that were required to make ACAtune.

Jens

Retrofan · 22 July 2015, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by modrobert

Also, if you use the 'setpatch' binary from MMU lib without actually loading MMU lib at boot, then 'acatune -status' fail to recognize the card properly, giving a completely different ACA model number running at different MHz.
.

In AKReal I've got an script for the WBStartup. It has these two commands:

Code:

If EXISTS SYS:C/ACATune
SYS:Utilities/EXPANSION/MMULib/MuTools/MuLockLib >NIL:
SYS:Utilities/EXPANSION/MMULib/MuTools/MuSetCacheMode Address=$b8f000 SIZE=4000 WRITETHROUGH VALID NOCACHE >NIL:
EndIf

They make a "hole" through MMU and your card is recognized.

modrobert · 22 July 2015, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

In AKReal I've got an script for the WBStartup. It has these two commands:

Code:

If EXISTS SYS:C/ACATune
SYS:Utilities/EXPANSION/MMULib/MuTools/MuLockLib >NIL:
SYS:Utilities/EXPANSION/MMULib/MuTools/MuSetCacheMode Address=$b8f000 SIZE=4000 WRITETHROUGH VALID NOCACHE >NIL:
EndIf

They make a "hole" through MMU and your card is recognized.

Yes, thanks. mfilos helped me with that a while back in this thread.

However, this happens when you comment out (disable) both those lines, by just using the 'setpatch' binary MMU lib provides (actually MMU lib patches your current c:setpatch during initial install and saves the old one in another directory). In other words, the problem with 'acatune -status' in this case comes after you try to uninstall MMU lib, it might not be so obvious you have to replace c:setpatch with an older version. I suspect the setpatch binary is modified to load MMU lib somehow, but haven't verified that specifically.

In any case, 'acatune -status' should fail with error in those situations, rather than showing some bogus card info.

Retrofan · 22 July 2015, 19:08

No idea, I use them from 2013 and the card is recognized. What's more I get 10 mips with an ACA31/42. I use the lines from the WBStartup.

But I'm not an expert, I read then some old post of Thor that was commenting something related not the ACA but MMU.

kolla · 22 July 2015, 20:44

Does ACA cards require Amiga OS to work?

Say I was to use a future ACA123x with "locked away" features, would I be able to boot into Linux or NetBSD and have access to all resources? I have been tempted to replace my Blizzard 1230III with ACA1233 (glorious 128MB) of RAM, but since machine runs Linux most of the time, I have been very hesitant.

Amiga1992 · 22 July 2015, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

Does ACA cards require Amiga OS to work?

ACAtune, and I believe will be the case for ACAcontrol too, does indeed need AmigaOS to work.

kolla · 22 July 2015, 21:55

Hopefully it should at least be possible to run the needed tools before bootstrapping into Linux, I believe I already run CardPatch before amiboot loads the kernel. I had hoped it was more a matter of modifying the firmware of the card, than rely on a piece of software on disk for every (cold) boot.

dJOS · 22 July 2015, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

You did see that the ACA1233 has all preparations for hacking in an FPU? It's just that you need to do it on your own. No support from my side.

Haven't thought about the WAF (wife-acceptance-factor), but yes, another good one :-)

Jens

True, i guess I've realised your new model could work well for me in the future despite my original reservations.

Mrs Beanbag · 22 July 2015, 22:15

so what's this about an "unprotect jumper"? seems pretty pointless if you have to have it set the whole time anyway. so i'd assumed the software would flash something and changes would be permanent.

brett71 · 22 July 2015, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

so what's this about an "unprotect jumper"? seems pretty pointless if you have to have it set the whole time anyway. so i'd assumed the software would flash something and changes would be permanent.

I suspect that jumper only needs to be set when applying the license key, and then it would be put back, like the read/write tab on a diskette, but for some flash RAM space that is set aside for this purpose.

Amiga1992 · 22 July 2015, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

Hopefully it should at least be possible to run the needed tools before bootstrapping into Linux, I believe I already run CardPatch before amiboot loads the kernel.

Then it should work, ACAtune runs first thing on your startup-sequence. Dunno about how ACAcontrol will work though, seems like maybe not.

You shouldn't have any problem to boot with an Amiga DOS floppy disk to use ACAcontrol though.

kolla · 23 July 2015, 01:03

I typically let /boot with kernels and initrd be an (A)FFS partiton that AmigaOS boots from, with bootstraping in startup-sequence, so yes, I would hope ACAcontrol and ACAtune can be used there.

daxb · 23 July 2015, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by modrobert

I suspect the setpatch binary is modified to load MMU lib somehow, but haven't verified that specifically.

From the mmulib guide:

Quote:

680x0.library
This is the master CPU dependent library. If the SetPatch
update has been installed, SetPatch will load this library
on startup. It's then the matter of the 680x0.library to
check for the CPU type and load the correct processor
support library, e.g. the 68040 or the 68060.library.

22 July 2015, 20:44	#132
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	Does ACA cards require Amiga OS to work? Say I was to use a future ACA123x with "locked away" features, would I be able to boot into Linux or NetBSD and have access to all resources? I have been tempted to replace my Blizzard 1230III with ACA1233 (glorious 128MB) of RAM, but since machine runs Linux most of the time, I have been very hesitant. Last edited by kolla; 22 July 2015 at 21:48.

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22 July 2015, 14:06	#124
fatboy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: the unknown Posts: 150	this 'pay to unlock' idea works for me I'm on a very tight budget so the base price is low enough for me to afford the basic model. in a few months time I might be able to afford the unlock codes. just need it for WHD games. so I personally like this idea.

22 July 2015, 16:45	#126
CrashMidnick Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: FRANCE Posts: 222	I do not really like this kind of business model but even if customers unlock the main features, it is still a NEW budget accelarator/ram which is cool (for me maprom and fastest CPU speed). I do not know what can we do with more than 9 mb using a 020, I never used more than 12mb with my blizzard 1230 using OS 3.1. But IMHO maprom should be free. I will definitely buy one, not because of the price or the business model but only because this board is very small and it will be perfect with ACA500 on my A1000. My blizzard is too tall and it is quite dangerous to use it as it is too closed to the joystic/mouse ports. I hope that a day we will see ACA1000 with 2mb chipram mod (or ACA500+ with an addon on for the A1000) An ACACD32 would be awesome too ! (Yes I know, cost of expansion port...)

22 July 2015, 19:08	#131
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,185	No idea, I use them from 2013 and the card is recognized. What's more I get 10 mips with an ACA31/42. I use the lines from the WBStartup. But I'm not an expert, I read then some old post of Thor that was commenting something related not the ACA but MMU.

22 July 2015, 21:55	#134
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	Hopefully it should at least be possible to run the needed tools before bootstrapping into Linux, I believe I already run CardPatch before amiboot loads the kernel. I had hoped it was more a matter of modifying the firmware of the card, than rely on a piece of software on disk for every (cold) boot.

22 July 2015, 22:15	#136
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	so what's this about an "unprotect jumper"? seems pretty pointless if you have to have it set the whole time anyway. so i'd assumed the software would flash something and changes would be permanent.

23 July 2015, 01:03	#139
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	I typically let /boot with kernels and initrd be an (A)FFS partiton that AmigaOS boots from, with bootstraping in startup-sequence, so yes, I would hope ACAcontrol and ACAtune can be used there.

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