English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > abime.net - Hall Of Light > HOL news

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 05 October 2018, 19:20   #41
Mrz
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 237
The atari st version seems is complete I have been playing with it
is 45k crunched

while the amiga version uploaded to the zone is only 29k crunched
is obvious that the game is incomplete

perhaps we can restore the game using the atariST data?
Mrz is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 19:25   #42
desiv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrz View Post
perhaps we can restore the game using the atariST data?
Good thought..

I'd bet that the backgrounds are virtually identical between versions...
desiv is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 19:35   #43
Mrz
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by desiv View Post
Good thought..

I'd bet that the backgrounds are virtually identical between versions...
yep surely the backgrounds are identical

this is work for meynaf , he is the expert in atarist conversions I'm sure he will fix it in seconds
Mrz is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 19:51   #44
ross
Omnia fert aetas

ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 48
Posts: 1,234
My WinUAE is displaying this in this very moment:


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	monkey.jpg
Views:	328
Size:	55.5 KB
ID:	60129  
ross is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 20:03   #45
ross
Omnia fert aetas

ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 48
Posts: 1,234
Just for the record.
I had already the idea of using ST version graphics this morning.
So I studied how the graphics are used on the ST, I installed Hatari, and wrote a conversion program (never done anything like that before).
Once converted, I put it on Amiga disk and... it was all distorted..
I checked and double-checked and it seemed like I had not made any mistakes during the conversion.
Then I had an atrocious doubts and I went to check if the graphics were manipulated in some way during the loading and.. I found game code that convert ST raw data to Amiga!
So in the end, i've just put the raw data.
So far only those of the main screen, I have to look again for the right areas for the game screens, but it's just a matter of time.
ross is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 21:16   #46
desiv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross View Post
My WinUAE is displaying this in this very moment:
OK, that's not what it looked like in my WinUAE!!!!
What settings, versions, and/or witchcraft did you use? ;-)

Read you second post.. Witchcraft then.. Good work! ;-)
desiv is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 21:56   #47
ross
Omnia fert aetas

ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 48
Posts: 1,234
OK, I've played up to level 6 and I got bored to death..
If anyone wants to try if everything is okay, in to the Zone there is a beta version.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	monkeyl6.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	53.1 KB
ID:	60130  
ross is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 22:00   #48
malko
Registered User

malko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 829
Euuuuuuh.... if you get bored.... how many levels in all are there ?
malko is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 22:03   #49
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 41
Posts: 7,816
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Awesome, Ross, you did an awesome job again !
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 22:22   #50
Don_Adan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 50
Posts: 1,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross View Post
OK, I've played up to level 6 and I got bored to death..
If anyone wants to try if everything is okay, in to the Zone there is a beta version.

You can add trainer
Anyway I dont think that Monkey Business can be the first Amiga commercial game. Because first Amigas has only 256K RAM, and Monkey Business needs 512K RAM.
Don_Adan is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 22:36   #51
DrBong
HOL / AMR Team Member

DrBong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross View Post
OK, I've played up to level 6 and I got bored to death..
If anyone wants to try if everything is okay, in to the Zone there is a beta version.

Woohoo!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Adan View Post
Anyway I dont think that Monkey Business can be the first Amiga commercial game. Because first Amigas has only 256K RAM, and Monkey Business needs 512K RAM.
Monkey Business was, in all probability, the first Amiga game ever released commercially - read the HOL entry notes for the reasons why that is. The need for 512k memory (vs 256k ram) is because coder (Ron J. Fortier) was a Mac programmer, first and foremost, and the Mac was the lead machine for the game. Understandably, being unfamiliar with the new Amiga 1000 back in 1985.....he probably ported the 68K Mac code over to the Amiga (and ST) with little or no optimisation, so the memory requirements blew out.

The other possibility is that developer machines sent to coders by Commodore prior to the A1000's release might have had more than 256k ram. The fact that the A1000 came with 256k ram as standard (instead of, say, 512k ram) may have been a late cost-cutting decision by Commodore. That's only an educated guess on my part, but we know that Commodore were a big bunch of penny-pinchers throughout their history! Besides, we know that 256k as a standard for Ami games did not last very long. By late 1986/early 1987, most commercial Amiga game releases required a minimum of 512k ram.

Last edited by DrBong; 10 October 2018 at 19:41. Reason: Fixed sentence!
DrBong is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 22:50   #52
Don_Adan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 50
Posts: 1,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
Woohoo!!!



Monkey Business was almost certainly the first Amiga game ever released commercially - read the HOL entry notes for the reasons why that is. The need for 512k memory (vs 256k ram) is because coder (Ron J. Fortier) was a Mac programmer, first and foremost, and the Mac was the lead machine for the game. Understandably, being unfamiliar with the new Amiga 1000 back in 1985.....he probably ported the 68K Mac code over to the Amiga (and ST) with little or no optimisation, so the memory requirements blew out.

The other possibility is that developer machines sent to coders by Commodore prior to the A1000's release might have had more than 256k ram. The fact that the A1000 came with 256k ram as standard (instead of, say, 512k ram) may have been a late cost-cutting decision by Commodore. That's only an educated guess on my part, but we know that Commodore were a big bunch of penny-pinchers throughout their history! Besides, we know that 256k as a standard for Ami games did not last very long. By late 1986/early 1987, most commercial Amiga game releases required a minimum of 512k ram.
I dont know from which time Amiga 1000 has 512K RAM as standard or upgrade to 512K RAM was available, but i dont think that first Amiga commercial game was created for 512K RAM. If i remember right exist some 256K RAM Amiga games, like EA games (f.e 7 Cities of Gold), Defender of the Crown, Mindwalker. Monkey Business review is from the half of 1986 year.
Don_Adan is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 23:07   #53
DrBong
HOL / AMR Team Member

DrBong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Adan View Post
I dont know from which time Amiga 1000 has 512K RAM as standard or upgrade to 512K RAM was available, but i dont think that first Amiga commercial game was created for 512K RAM. If i remember right exist some 256K RAM Amiga games, like EA games (f.e 7 Cities of Gold), Defender of the Crown, Mindwalker. Monkey Business review is from the half of 1986 year.
As I said before, you need to *read* the HOL entry notes to understand why Monkey Business is thought to be the first commercial Amiga game released.

Amiga World was indisputably the first Amiga review magazine launched worldwide, and the comments below are from the first Amiga World games editor Peter Olafson. He didn't just post comments to newsgroups; he also put them in print in an interview with Bill Williams (the coder of Mind Walker released by Commodore), published in Amazing Computing in the late 90s.

Incidentally, Bill Williams didn't disagree with him about Monkey Business and Delta Patrol being the Amiga's first two commercial game releases, or that Mind Walker wasn't the first one ever released on the Amiga.

'My candidate [for most obscure Amiga game] is Monkey Business from The Other Valley Software.
It's a Donkey Kong clone released in late 1985--the first game Amiga World received (I was AW's games editor) and, quite possibly, the first Amiga game, period.
' [Source: Peter Olafson (ex-Amiga World games editor), "The Most Obscure Amiga Game" online thread (23-Feb-2000); comp.sys.amiga.games newsgroup]

'Over the years, Mind Walker has acquired a beard of myths that have gained credence through repetition. Like most myths, they contain a grain of truth. But only a small grain.

Mind Walker was not the first commercial Amiga game. Although among the earliest Amiga games - and probably the best distributed of them (owing to CBM's participation) - Mind Walker wasn't actually released until early 1986, when the Amiga had already been available for some months. The earliest commercial Amiga games I've been able to find are Monkey Business and Delta Patrol - both from The Other Valley Software and released in late 1985.
' [Source: Peter Olafson (Amiga games journalist), A Tribute to the Work of Bill Williams: Part 1; Amazing Computing, Vol. 13 Issue 2 (Feb 98), p46]

Last edited by DrBong; 05 October 2018 at 23:19.
DrBong is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 23:20   #54
clenched
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Gainesville U.S.A.
Posts: 639
Whether it was first or not you have to admit two things:
- Ross did a fine job to get it to a playable state.
- Only Captain dlfrsilver's trained bloodhound nose could find it.
clenched is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 23:24   #55
Don_Adan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 50
Posts: 1,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
As I said before, you need to *read* the HOL entry notes to understand why Monkey Business is thought to be the first commercial Amiga game released.

Amiga World was indisputably the first Amiga review magazine launched worldwide, and the comments below are from the first Amiga World games editor Peter Olafson. He didn't just make the comments on newsgroups; he also put them in print in an interview with Bill Williams (the coder of Mind Walker released by Commodore), published in Amazing Computing in the late 90s.

Incidentally, Bill Williams didn't disagree with him about Monkey Business and Delta Patrol being the Amiga's first two commercial game releases, or that Mind Walker wasn't the first commercial Amiga game ever released.

'My candidate [for most obscure Amiga game] is Monkey Business from The Other Valley Software.
It's a Donkey Kong clone released in late 1985--the first game Amiga World received (I was AW's games editor) and, quite possibly, the first Amiga game, period.
' [Source: Peter Olafson (ex-Amiga World games editor), "The Most Obscure Amiga Game" online thread (23-Feb-2000); comp.sys.amiga.games newsgroup]

'Over the years, Mind Walker has acquired a beard of myths that have gained credence through repetition. Like most myths, they contain a grain of truth. But only a small grain.

Mind Walker was not the first commercial Amiga game. Although among the earliest Amiga games - and probably the best distributed of them (owing to CBM's participation) - Mind Walker wasn't actually released until early 1986, when the Amiga had already been available for some months. The earliest commercial Amiga games I've been able to find are Monkey Business and Delta Patrol - both from The Other Valley Software and released in late 1985.
' [Source: Peter Olafson (Amiga games journalist), A Tribute to the Work of Bill Williams: Part 1; Amazing Computing, Vol. 13 Issue 2 (Feb 98), p46]
Yes, I readed this already. But still dont think that Monkey Business can be the first Amiga commercial game. Why? Because 512K RAM. It can be first Amiga commercial game which needs 512K RAM, like perhaps Dungeon Master can be first Amiga commercial game which needs 1MB RAM. I think that first Amigas 1000 must be sold with software too, because without game(s) Amiga 1000 was useless. Then first Amiga commercial game must be from EA (Commodore partner) or from Commodore directly.
Don_Adan is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 23:36   #56
DrBong
HOL / AMR Team Member

DrBong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,351
@clenched
Absolutely! I'd still like to see a clean crack or dump from an original copy of the game, though......me being the purist that I am!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Adan View Post
Yes, I readed this already. But still dont think that Monkey Business can be the first Amiga commercial game. Why? Because 512K RAM. It can be first Amiga commercial game which needs 512K RAM, like perhaps Dungeon Master can be first Amiga commercial game which needs 1MB RAM. I think that first Amigas 1000 must be sold with software too, because without game(s) Amiga 1000 was useless.
You're entitled to your opinion. However, isn't it a bit arrogant to think that you know better than a guy who was reviewing games for the only Amiga magazine in existence back in 1985.....or better than the Mind Walker coder, for that matter? If you have any *facts* (rather than opinions or gut instincts) to cast convincing doubt over what they said in that interview, then I'd be more than happy to hear them. I spent many many hours trying to get as close to the truth about this as possible for the HOL entry, and I couldn't find even a modest amount of consistent evidence pointing to another game being the first commercial Amiga release.

As for the first A1000s being sold with bundled software in the U.S. - it would've been nice, but not even the C64 when first released was bundled with games software except for perhaps the shitty games in BASIC that were included with the "Introduction to the C64" packs. However, I don't think those packs were included until later when Commodore came up with the concept of C64 family packs etc.

Tramiel and Commodore, even after he left, were all about getting machines to home users for as cheaply as possible. Commissioning games software for bundling with machines at launch wasn't a luxury they had (in terms of time or money), unlike the lucrative console companies who knew that games had to exist from day one for console sales to be a success. At the launch of the A1000, Commodore was massively cash-strapped and almost went under during the first year of the A1000's production. It's probably the very reason why the A1000 failed in the U.S. - they didn't have the money to embark on massive sales campaigns after the machine's launch. I imagine a lot of of it got spent on the pre-launch publicity involving Andy Warhol, Debbie Harry etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Adan View Post
Then first Amiga commercial game must be from EA (Commodore partner) or from Commodore directly.
I disagree. If it wasn't the PD-style Monkey Business or Delta Patrol games from The Other Valley Software, then it would've been an Infocom text adventure. Infocom probably had developer machines from C= and had everything set-up in-house from a software/hardware point-of-view to quickly port text adventures between different platforms in a matter of weeks. It is well-established that they had cross-platform facilities set-up in-house for 8-bit platform development per se way before any of the 16-bit machines like the ST and Amiga were launched.

Last edited by DrBong; 10 October 2018 at 19:43.
DrBong is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 23:38   #57
Crown
Demoscener
Crown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FR
Age: 48
Posts: 370
Thanks Ross, beautiful work again.
Crown is offline  
Old 05 October 2018, 23:40   #58
malko
Registered User

malko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross View Post
OK, I've played up to level 6 and I got bored to death..
If anyone wants to try if everything is okay, in to the Zone there is a beta version.
Just downloaded it. Will give a try this week-end
Ross, you rule. Fantastic job done !
malko is offline  
Old 06 October 2018, 00:02   #59
Don_Adan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Warsaw/Poland
Age: 50
Posts: 1,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
@clenched
Absolutely! I'd still like to see a clean crack or dump from an original copy of the game, though......me being the purist that I am!



You're entitled to your opinion. However, isn't it a bit arrogant to think that you know better than a guy who was reviewing games for the only Amiga magazine in existence back in 1985.....or better than the Mind Walker coder, for that matter? If you have any *facts* (rather than opinions or gut instincts) to cast convincing doubt over what they said in that interview, then I'd be more than happy to hear them. I spent many hours trying to get as close to the truth about this as possible for the HOL entry, and I couldn't find even a modest amount of evidence pointing to another game being the first commercial Amiga release.

As for the first A1000s being sold with bundled software in the U.S. - it would've been nice, but not even the C64 when first released was bundled with games software except for perhaps the shitty games in BASIC that were included with the "Introduction to the C64" packs. However, I don't think those packs were included until later when Commodore came up with the concept of C64 family packs etc.

Tramiel and Commodore, even after he left, were all about getting machines to home users for as cheaply as possible. Commissioning games software for bundling with machines at launch wasn't a luxury that they had, unlike the lucrative console companies who knew that games had to exist from day one for console sales to be a success. At the launch of the A1000, Commodore was massively cash-strapped and almost went under during the first year of the A1000's production. It's probably the very reason why the A1000 failed in the U.S. - they didn't have the money to embark on massive sales campaigns after the machine's launch. I imagine a lot of of it got spent on the pre-launch publicity involving Andy Warhol, Debbie Harry etc.
Ok. Maybe a few arrogant, sorry. But first A1000 was 256KB RAM only? Right. You go to shop. You see new computer A1000. Ok. You asked for games for this computer. And answer is "No Software for this Computer available" or "You must buy 256K RAM expansion too and you can buy/run Monster Bussines game". Finally. I mean that sold A1000 256KB without software has no sense. But im not good seller perhaps.

btw. And 256KB Ram expansion must be available to buy from begining too.
Don_Adan is offline  
Old 06 October 2018, 00:10   #60
Amigajay
醉拳
Amigajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,923
I dont think its ‘certain’ that Monkey Business was the first commercial Amiga game, yeah the chances are high going by what Peter said that they received that game first, of course we all know not every company sends games to magazines, there well could be another game out before that, it was all close in terms of dates and what was sent to who.

Looking at early Amiga World mags, looks like the first 3 EA games and a couple of other publisher games got released 1st Dec 1985 going by an mail order advert, so in all all of these games were ‘late 1985’ but no means certain for 100% which was first unless more evidence is shown, receipts etc.

One thing we know only one of those 256k games is actually the first playable on a stock A1000 game.
Amigajay is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how commercial amiga game would be those day? albino Retrogaming General Discussion 28 28 November 2016 10:42
Biggest Ever SINGLE DISK Amiga game? / Smallest Commercial Amiga game Amigajay Nostalgia & memories 10 27 June 2016 00:35
Any Amiga commercial game developers/programmers here? quahappy Nostalgia & memories 10 28 December 2013 14:19
What was the first paid-for commercial Amiga game in the UK? quahappy Nostalgia & memories 10 14 December 2013 02:20
Exists this Amiga game ? - Arcade name Warlords wlcina Looking for a game name ? 8 22 March 2005 07:17

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.13477 seconds with 14 queries