How hard is it to port OpenMSX?

[britelite]

Originally Posted by xboxown

You said FMSX currently emulates MSX as it was and does not need updates. May I say there is false on that. So many games are not emulated correctly, including graphic glitches, sprites not showing, etc.

Well, he did say MSX, not MSX2/MSX2+/turboR. Any examples of games for plain MSX that don't work correctly?

[James]

Originally Posted by Syntrax

The latest version for amiga was left at 2.3, so thats dead. (See aminet).

The source code archive on Aminet actually includes 2.4a executables:

http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/fMSX_2.4a_src

[xboxown]

Originally Posted by britelite

Well, he did say MSX, not MSX2/MSX2+/turboR. Any examples of games for plain MSX that don't work correctly?

Uh yeah! The game that comes with fmsx lha archive itself.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by xboxown

Uh yeah! The game that comes with fmsx lha archive itself.

And which game would that be? Can't find any images in the 2.3 archive available on Aminet.

[xboxown]

I downloaded the source code aminet and tried to compile it in AmiDevCPP but I get this error message

K:\CrossCompiler\AmiDevCpp\m68k-amigaos-gcc ../../fMSX_2.4a_src/src/command.c: No such file or directory.

Originally Posted by xboxown

How hard is it to port the fMSX 5.4 C into Amiga? We have V2 and with V4 coming in the future we are more capable of running modern features of MSX on Amiga and enhance timing and compatibilities as well. You said FMSX currently emulates MSX as it was and does not need updates. May I say there is false on that. So many games are not emulated correctly, including graphic glitches, sprites not showing, etc. It need lot more update to make 3.4 or 3.5 for Amiga to become a useable source.

I believe you when you say, FMsx on Amiga doesn't support all games. Perhaps there is a reason for that. I'll download a v4 version of FMsx from Aminet when it becomes available.

The issue with emulating MSX is the hardware (limits what's possible) and a developer that wants to write and maintain code.

Around the time the Amiga 500 was launched, MSX got hardware that supported 19000 colors on screen, realtime unlike HAM. With SCC in cartridges the MSX had 8 sound channels and the Amiga only 4. Somewhat later 7 MHZ became the next standard speed for MSX. The capabilities diverged. Modern systems with 16M colors, infinite sound channels and 3GHZ processors can do all the required math but sadly: thats not Amiga.

Thats why I have a real MSX2+ next to my Amiga. There is a lot happening in the MSX world, so if you like MSX, buy one and join the community

[xboxown]

Originally Posted by Syntrax

I believe you when you say, FMsx on Amiga doesn't support all games. Perhaps there is a reason for that. I'll download a v4 version of FMsx from Aminet when it becomes available.

The issue with emulating MSX is the hardware (limits what's possible) and a developer that wants to write and maintain code.

Around the time the Amiga 500 was launched, MSX got hardware that supported 19000 colors on screen, realtime unlike HAM. With SCC in cartridges the MSX had 8 sound channels and the Amiga only 4. Somewhat later 7 MHZ became the next standard speed for MSX. The capabilities diverged. Modern systems with 16M colors, infinite sound channels and 3GHZ processors can do all the required math but sadly: thats not Amiga.

Thats why I have a real MSX2+ next to my Amiga. There is a lot happening in the MSX world, so if you like MSX, buy one and join the community

YES SIR!!

My love to MSX is 100% at the same level as my love to my Amiga 500.
My love to Commdore 64 is 100% the same level as my love to MSX.
My love to Apple //gs is 80% the same level as my love to Commodore 64.

I have Amiga 500, I have Commodore 64, I have Apple //gs...BUT NOW TO OWN MSX BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!

I want to get the MSX 2 wavy edition...I will be saving money to get that!

@xboxown, my collection will be complete after adding a breadbin 64, although I won't use it very much. From a versatility point of view: Amiga is on top. The only thing I really want, is RTG because I am used to that, but I'll live without it anyway. BVision is expensive and requires serious modifications inside a A1200 because of the power it needs. Otherwise, redesigning the Amiga to a towers costs around $1200 because of all the additional stuff you need.

MSX is really cool, nice games, good music (14 channels when using FMPAC and MSX-AUDIO), and a MSX2 machine, costs around $250, transforming it too a MSX2+ costs around $100 and the cartridges required too extend the machine vary. Still way cheaper than most Amiga extensions

[xboxown]

.o O ( Wonders if people in this forum have heard of Vampire?)

- scratches hair -

It seems - mumbles to himself - that the name Vampire have not reached this side of the Amiga community for some apparent reason.

Ah!



People! People! Form a crowd here! There is an accelerator developed for the Amiga 500 and Amiga 600 by majsta himself. You can visit his main page at majsta.com.

These accelerators are for the Amiga 500 and Amiga 600. The name of the accelerators are: Vampire 500 V2 and Vampire 600 V2 that matches the Amiga model respectively.

Here are the specs:

Apollo Accelerators is an Amiga Classic accelerator board product line. It uses the Apollo core which is a code compatible Motorola M68K processor but is 3 to 4 time faster than the fastest 68060 at time. It also brings Amiga Classic near to Amiga NG by bringing digital video with millions of colours.

Fastest Amiga CPU
Faster than a 68060 at 100MHz, capable of Next Gen workloads (watching movies, listening to digital music, etc.).

Fast Storage
Use IDE up to 11MB/s and a MicroSD card (*) as hard drive and say goodbye to your aging floppies and old SCSI drives.

Loads of memory
Ever heard of the sentence "640K Ought to be Enough for Anyone" ? Vampire is cranking it up to 128MB.

Digital Video Output
32-Bit Digital output from RTG and SAGA. You can now plug in your new shiny LCD screen up to 720p.

User upgradable
New cores are uploaded directly from your Amiga, giving you new functionalities and performances when they hit the street.

Affordable
We also think paying 1500€ for an old 68060 accelerator plus RTG is pure madness.

(*) The current driver revision may boot from the IDE controller, but it is not able to boot from the MicroSD slot.

Note installation of this product requires the opening of your computer. We advise you to hire with our Support Deppartment if you are not familiar with hardware intervention in a computer. Warranty can under no circumstances cover for any damage caused during assembly. Modified Amiga 500 motherboards, in example recapped with not low profile capacitors, or with capacitors that can't be bended, may prevent the Vampire installation.

You can find further information about it at http://apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=products

For lazy people who refuse to click the link you can read about these accelerators and more here:

Vampire Accelerator cards
The features of Apollo Core included with a specific Accelerator card can vary in correspondence with the hardware features of that card.
The Vampire Project mission statement:
Provide Amiga users with products that will upgrade all classic Amiga computer models to the best performance possible.
Inspire growth through ongoing 68K based product development of advanced FPGA cores.

Preserve and push the classic Amiga platform forward using technical expertise, modern tools, and a clear roadmap. This long term plan will take years and is focused on results.
Give classic Amiga users reasonably priced choice. Empower users with the opportunity to upgrade classic systems with the current Vampire Accelerator feature set, or wait until more features are added.
Vampire 500 V4


CPU Accelerator for AMIGA A500/A1000/2000/etc
Apollo 68080 CPU
Performance is application dependent:
up to ~ 1000MHz 68030 / 500MHz 68040 / 250MHz 68060
512 MB DDR3 Memory
Dual Flash Chips
FastKick
SAGA GFX Core : Truecolor DIGITAL VIDEO OUT
FastIDE/CompactFlash Controller 13MB/sec
SDcard for Data exchange
USB
RJ45 100BaseTX Ethernet
Expansion ports (e.g. Wifi Module)
Vampire 600 V2


CPU Accelerator for AMIGA A600
Apollo 68080 CPU
Performance is application dependent:
up to ~ 800MHz 68030 / 400MHz 68040 / 200MHz 68060
128 MB Memory
FastKick
SAGA GFX Core : Truecolor DIGITAL VIDEO OUT
SDcard for Data exchange
Vampire 500 V2+


CPU Accelerator for AMIGA A500/A1000/etc
Apollo 68080 CPU
Performance is application dependent:
up to ~ 800MHz 68030 / 400MHz 68040 / 200MHz 68060
128 MB Memory
FastKick
SAGA GFX Core : Truecolor DIGITAL VIDEO OUT
FastIDE/CompactFlash Controller 13MB/sec
SDcard for Data exchange
Expansion port (e.g. Wifi Module)

Vampire 2 Performance according to Sysinfo

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Syntrax

With SCC in cartridges the MSX had 8 sound channels and the Amiga only 4.

You could put anything in a game cartridge to make up for hardware deficiencies, but then every game needs to have its own dedicated hardware - which is a lot of unnecessary duplication and expense. Pathetic.

Thats why I have a real MSX2+ next to my Amiga. There is a lot happening in the MSX world, so if you like MSX, buy one and join the community

I bought a Toshiba HX-10 thinking it would be fun to play all those MSX games, only to discover that the good ones need MSX-2 and/or special hardware in the cartridge. So much for just burning a few EPROMs!

Perhaps one day I get around to making a disk interface for my HX-10, but right now it's just sitting on the shelf along with all the other 8 bitters. Two Amigas are more than enough to keep me occupied.

[Hewitson]

What sort of idiot would spend hundreds of dollars on a Vampire, so they could run a buggy Amiga MSX emulator which a lot of software probably won't even work on anyway... You could get a nice real MSX for that money.

[xboxown]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

What sort of idiot would spend hundreds of dollars on a Vampire, so they could run a buggy Amiga MSX emulator which a lot of software probably won't even work on anyway... You could get a nice real MSX for that money.

With that statement what sort of idiot would spend hundreds of dollars on an Apple //gs. Or spend money on a Mac LC III and upgrade it when there is shapeshift, or spend money on Commodore 64 when there are emulators for it, or spend money on an Amiga or Vampire when there is WinUAE, or spend money to get real hardware console when there are emulators or spend.............<keeps typing for 8 hours long>.....ouch (wiggles his hand) my hand hurt.

THANKS HEWITSON for that so much!! Now take that and and couple of that . Ah, perfect now you look like that

[malko]

Originally Posted by xboxown

[...] THANKS HEWITSON for that so much!! Now take that and and couple of that . Ah, perfect now you look like that

Not that it's very constructive, but it made me laugh a lot

[xboxown]

hehe

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

What sort of idiot would spend hundreds of dollars on a Vampire, so they could run a buggy Amiga MSX emulator which a lot of software probably won't even work on anyway... You could get a nice real MSX for that money.

Because you can run a lot more on it than just MSX emulation?

Right now there are two MSX-2 computers I can buy on eBay. One has an asking price of EUR 1,300.00 + EUR 30 shipping (NZ$2,223.00). The other one is only 1/10th the price but "AS-IS UNTESTED no power supply" (could be OK, or a waste of money - should I take the risk?), then there's the cost of those cartridges with special hardware that probably can't be reproduced easily (if at all) so I have to buy the originals at inflated prices.

But I already have a Vampired A600, so...

If I wanted to play MSX games I wouldn't be worried about bugs in the emulator so long as it could play enough games to have fun with. The convenience of being able to play them directly on the Amiga, without having to drag out the MSX computer and its power supply (plus 240/110 transformer if I bought a Japanese unit) swap over the TV and sound cables etc., is well worth a little incompatibility.

My 8 bitters aren't getting used because I don't have anywhere to put them. I am looking at several hundred dollars for benches and other stuff to set them up properly - or perhaps I will just sell them all and stick with the Amiga. My A1200 does a superb job of emulating a ZX Spectrum, so a Vampire should have no trouble emulating most 8 bitters if the code is written efficiently (which OpenMSX most certainly is not).

[grelbfarlk]

Xbone, I would like to know where you get the right, no the desire, no the right, to play games on your Amiga 500 and speak about it on the English Amiga Board of all places. You should be talking about your PC and the things you'd like to run on it here, out of respect. May the one, many or no gods forgive you.

Also fmsx looks to be exactly hardness=4.35, I hope that helps.

[xboxown]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Xbone, I would like to know where you get the right, no the desire, no the right, to play games on your Amiga 500 and speak about it on the English Amiga Board of all places. .....

Would someone please tell me what sort of pot grelbfarlk is sniffing?

I would like to place a ban on it!

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by xboxown

Would someone please tell me what sort of pot grelbfarlk is sniffing?

I would like to place a ban on it!

It's a pot of beef bourguignon and it's almost ready. Some people say cow farts are destroying the planet and we should ban them or at least stop growing so many, but I don't think we should ban them.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by xboxown

With that statement what sort of idiot would spend hundreds of dollars on an Apple //gs. Or spend money on a Mac LC III and upgrade it when there is shapeshift, or spend money on Commodore 64 when there are emulators for it, or spend money on an Amiga or Vampire when there is WinUAE

Let me get this straight... You ask about porting something which requires a powerful modern PC to an Amiga. You suggest spending hundreds of dollars on a Vampire so you can run the thing. Then you imply I'm the idiot?

Originally Posted by xboxown

, or spend money to get real hardware console when there are emulators or spend.............<keeps typing for 8 hours long>.....ouch (wiggles his hand) my hand hurt.

THANKS HEWITSON for that so much!! Now take that and and couple of that . Ah, perfect now you look like that

Grow up.

[xboxown]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Let me get this straight... You ask about porting something which requires a powerful modern PC to an Amiga. You suggest spending hundreds of dollars on a Vampire so you can run the thing. Then you imply I'm the idiot?

Uh dude...one of the requirement of a retro hobbyist or been in retro-scene is not using emulators..is owning the real thing. I am spending money on the real thing because, real physical hardware bring pleasure that no emulators could bring.

If you want me to be a mechanical robotic logical thinking and emotionless to boot then by all means even spending money on a powerful gaming PC IS and will be TRULY wasted investment. In fact...I should still be using an 386 PC as long it boots and I can do basic activities or get the bare minimum specs of a PC.

So many things we human being do is illogical and uncommon sense. We should all be investors, banks, accountants and focus on making money, money, money and be one giant CPU of logical 1+1=2.

But I am NOT....and take more of that