Lemon Juice (killing battery acid)

ElectroBlaster · 02 February 2014, 01:22

I want to douse an A500+ board with Lemon Juice.

Pouring it on the battery area, data path chips, possibly agnus etc...

Is it enough to agitate it a bit with a good toothbrush and then dab dry?
Or do I have to wash it down afterwards?

Thanks

prowler · 02 February 2014, 23:25

Pour it onto the affected and surrounding areas of the board just to be sure, wait for all the corrosion, deposits and other residue to be dissolved and neutralized (agitate with a 10mm paint brush with the bristles cut short if necessary), and then wash off thoroughly with tap water (yes, this is safe).

The lemon juice will neutralize and remove the alkaline battery leakage and dissolve away the corrosion and other residue on the board, but will itself begin to erode the exposed metallic surfaces unless it is also removed, and this is best done with a sufficiently largre quantity of tap water.

Afterwards, you will need to dry the board thoroughly in an airing cupboard until all traces of water have disappeared.

ElectroBlaster · 02 February 2014, 23:35

Thanks. I asked because I did use lemon juice on a small board ages ago as a tester and was amazed how it worked. But was completely unsure if I had to remove the juice afterwards. This a500+ will trap the lemon juice under the chips and sockets. If I left it for a couple days would that be ok?

So that has cleared it all up for me.

I shall crack on and get the board done and washed. Just need a decent place to do this without people messing things up (got no proper area set aside)

prowler · 02 February 2014, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectroBlaster

This a500+ will trap the lemon juice under the chips and sockets. If I left it for a couple days would that be ok?

Yes, I would think that ought to be enough time for it to bring everything up nice and shiny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectroBlaster

I shall crack on and get the board done and washed. Just need a decent place to do this without people messing things up (got no proper area set aside)

Good luck! I reckon it'll take a good while to dry out thoroughly, though. So don't be tempted to power it up too soon.

demolition · 03 February 2014, 00:21

Better put it in the oven on low heat (I'd say max 100 degC) for several hours. This is the best way to dry things. I've one washed a MB without oven drying and when I got back to the board about a week later and pulled an IC from its socket, I saw water was still hiding beneath it. So now I always dry boards in the oven after washing.

ElectroBlaster · 03 February 2014, 00:23

No worries on powering up afterwards, will leave it for as long as it takes. Just concerned I will do damage by trying to make things good by leaving things too long covered in stuff that can eat things.

I have to sort this as the board seems to work ok! but the agnus has green crud on the socket pins, its only mild but its there. Should I pull agnus and then douse the socket?

I guessing this amiga was stored on its side and battery acid worked its way down. Thankfully most of the damage it localised around the battery area. Some of the top coating has come away from the copper ground plane. I need one of those pcb coat pens... bit shocked at the prices for these on fleabay!

ElectroBlaster · 03 February 2014, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by demolition

Better put it in the oven on low heat (I'd say max 100 degC) for several hours. This is the best way to dry things. I've one washed a MB without oven drying and when I got back to the board about a week later and pulled an IC from its socket, I saw water was still hiding beneath it. So now I always dry boards in the oven after washing.

Sounds like a good plan! Will have to convince the wife its a good thing mind lol.

Any good practice pointers? middle of the oven etc... I am a bit concerned about water under the chips.. agnus being one that could trap a bit which will not be good later on I guess.

prowler · 03 February 2014, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectroBlaster

I have to sort this as the board seems to work ok! but the agnus has green crud on the socket pins, its only mild but its there. Should I pull agnus and then douse the socket?

If that's the only socket/chip showing signs of the green stuff, then it might be an idea to pull the chip and treat it with lemon juice separately.

But make sure you're very careful pulling the chip out, because it's possible for such corrosion to have 'stuck' the pins in the socket. In this situation, it is better to apply lemon juice to the board with the Agnus chip in situ, and remove it from the socket after a day or so and reapply lemon juice to the socket and chip afterwards to clean them up properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectroBlaster

Some of the top coating has come away from the copper ground plane. I need one of those pcb coat pens... bit shocked at the prices for these on fleabay!

Really, clear nail varnish is just as good.

AmmoJammo · 03 February 2014, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Really, clear nail varnish is just as good.

Clear? what's wrong with pink!

prowler · 03 February 2014, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmmoJammo

Clear? what's wrong with pink!

It hides the clean and sparkling finish of the exposed tracks after the lemon juice treatment.

jimbob · 03 February 2014, 01:06

Definitely clean off the lemon Juice and +1 on the oven to dry motherboards. I don't really trust the temp control so set it just above fifty to be safe. I've started using this safewash foam cleaner as I found IPA was still leaving a sticky film of flux. It works great but probably not worth it for one time use, it's quite potent, if you leave it on too long it will lift the silkscreen. After that flush with IPA and bake for maybe an hour. Looks like new.

Be careful with that agnus. I just pulled one this afternoon and it left a pin in the socket

How long do you leave the lemon juice on corroded stuff. I usually just flush and brush until the fizzing stops. Will it fully remove all the corrosion if you leave it longer? I thought it just neutralised the battery guts, then any remaining corrosion needs more abrasive methods to get back to solderable condition. I suppose it depends how bad it is.

demolition · 03 February 2014, 08:42

I think it would be fine to just leave it until it stops fizzing, so just a few minutes should be enough. It won't remove the corrosion that is already there, it just neutralises the batteri leakage to stop that from corroding any further as you write.

Loedown · 03 February 2014, 12:58

I started a thread some time back on this exact topic, I got all the parts I needed to make a wave tank but didn't have the time to make it. I quit my job two weeks ago and now I have time. The electrolyte is boric acid from memory and the battery leak is potassium hydroxide, the former dissolves in water and the latter with lemon juice or vinegar. I did an extensive repair on an A2000 some time back using a paintbrush and vinegar which brought it up a treat. I use a product called Bloc Lube as the varnish, it's naturally green.

I have a job to do for someone tomorrow and then I can build the wash tank and report back the day after or by Friday at the latest.

ElectroBlaster · 03 February 2014, 15:25

Excellent info guys

I need to get this board sorted but I did try a little bit on one of the data path chips which had alot of emerald greeny stuff on the pins. I grabbed a fresh toothbrush and worked some lemon juice around. Quite impressed how it ate the corrosion off and the chip looks really clean now!

Where can I get Bloc Lube in the uk? I shall toddle off to google and fleabay now. Got the afternoon/evening free so I can have a good nose around

EDIT: No worrys on the lube stuff! just bought two bottles of it! Failing that I have a teenage daughter (lol I can pilfer her nailvarnish)

EDIT2: Our oven is a bit, well its not a topline model so has no digital readout. Going to need judgement on what temps... guessing really low? what should I place the amiga board on? Should I apply the same idea as re-flowing a video card and place tinfoil balls on a tray and then put the amiga board on them?

Just been talking to the wife about all this oven lark and she looked at me real strange lmao!

edd_jedi · 03 February 2014, 15:33

No idea if this is best practice or not, but when I removed the leaking battery from my A4000 I used lemon juice on the affected (and surrounding) area and then used a can of PCB cleaner spray to clear the area of lemon juice rather than water. It pretty much evaporated straight off so only required minimal 'drying' time. A year later still looks good to me.

demolition · 03 February 2014, 15:39

Tinfoil balls sounds like a good idea. You want fresh air to be able to get anywhere. As for the temperature, if water doesn't fizz when it hits the tray, it is <100 deg so you should be safe.

02 February 2014, 01:22	#1
ElectroBlaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Exeter, Devon, UK Age: 49 Posts: 1,706	Lemon Juice (killing battery acid) I want to douse an A500+ board with Lemon Juice. Pouring it on the battery area, data path chips, possibly agnus etc... Is it enough to agitate it a bit with a good toothbrush and then dab dry? Or do I have to wash it down afterwards? Thanks

02 February 2014, 23:25	#2
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Pour it onto the affected and surrounding areas of the board just to be sure, wait for all the corrosion, deposits and other residue to be dissolved and neutralized (agitate with a 10mm paint brush with the bristles cut short if necessary), and then wash off thoroughly with tap water (yes, this is safe). The lemon juice will neutralize and remove the alkaline battery leakage and dissolve away the corrosion and other residue on the board, but will itself begin to erode the exposed metallic surfaces unless it is also removed, and this is best done with a sufficiently largre quantity of tap water. Afterwards, you will need to dry the board thoroughly in an airing cupboard until all traces of water have disappeared. Last edited by prowler; 02 February 2014 at 23:48. Reason: Typo.

03 February 2014, 15:25	#14
ElectroBlaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Exeter, Devon, UK Age: 49 Posts: 1,706	Excellent info guys I need to get this board sorted but I did try a little bit on one of the data path chips which had alot of emerald greeny stuff on the pins. I grabbed a fresh toothbrush and worked some lemon juice around. Quite impressed how it ate the corrosion off and the chip looks really clean now! Where can I get Bloc Lube in the uk? I shall toddle off to google and fleabay now. Got the afternoon/evening free so I can have a good nose around EDIT: No worrys on the lube stuff! just bought two bottles of it! Failing that I have a teenage daughter (lol I can pilfer her nailvarnish) EDIT2: Our oven is a bit, well its not a topline model so has no digital readout. Going to need judgement on what temps... guessing really low? what should I place the amiga board on? Should I apply the same idea as re-flowing a video card and place tinfoil balls on a tray and then put the amiga board on them? Just been talking to the wife about all this oven lark and she looked at me real strange lmao! Last edited by ElectroBlaster; 03 February 2014 at 15:30.

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02 February 2014, 23:35	#3
ElectroBlaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Exeter, Devon, UK Age: 49 Posts: 1,706	Thanks. I asked because I did use lemon juice on a small board ages ago as a tester and was amazed how it worked. But was completely unsure if I had to remove the juice afterwards. This a500+ will trap the lemon juice under the chips and sockets. If I left it for a couple days would that be ok? So that has cleared it all up for me. I shall crack on and get the board done and washed. Just need a decent place to do this without people messing things up (got no proper area set aside)

03 February 2014, 00:21	#5
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Better put it in the oven on low heat (I'd say max 100 degC) for several hours. This is the best way to dry things. I've one washed a MB without oven drying and when I got back to the board about a week later and pulled an IC from its socket, I saw water was still hiding beneath it. So now I always dry boards in the oven after washing.

03 February 2014, 00:23	#6
ElectroBlaster Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Exeter, Devon, UK Age: 49 Posts: 1,706	No worries on powering up afterwards, will leave it for as long as it takes. Just concerned I will do damage by trying to make things good by leaving things too long covered in stuff that can eat things. I have to sort this as the board seems to work ok! but the agnus has green crud on the socket pins, its only mild but its there. Should I pull agnus and then douse the socket? I guessing this amiga was stored on its side and battery acid worked its way down. Thankfully most of the damage it localised around the battery area. Some of the top coating has come away from the copper ground plane. I need one of those pcb coat pens... bit shocked at the prices for these on fleabay!

03 February 2014, 01:06	#11
jimbob Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kilmacolm Age: 46 Posts: 632	Definitely clean off the lemon Juice and +1 on the oven to dry motherboards. I don't really trust the temp control so set it just above fifty to be safe. I've started using this safewash foam cleaner as I found IPA was still leaving a sticky film of flux. It works great but probably not worth it for one time use, it's quite potent, if you leave it on too long it will lift the silkscreen. After that flush with IPA and bake for maybe an hour. Looks like new. Be careful with that agnus. I just pulled one this afternoon and it left a pin in the socket How long do you leave the lemon juice on corroded stuff. I usually just flush and brush until the fizzing stops. Will it fully remove all the corrosion if you leave it longer? I thought it just neutralised the battery guts, then any remaining corrosion needs more abrasive methods to get back to solderable condition. I suppose it depends how bad it is.

03 February 2014, 08:42	#12
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	I think it would be fine to just leave it until it stops fizzing, so just a few minutes should be enough. It won't remove the corrosion that is already there, it just neutralises the batteri leakage to stop that from corroding any further as you write.

03 February 2014, 12:58	#13
Loedown Precious & fragile things Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,946	I started a thread some time back on this exact topic, I got all the parts I needed to make a wave tank but didn't have the time to make it. I quit my job two weeks ago and now I have time. The electrolyte is boric acid from memory and the battery leak is potassium hydroxide, the former dissolves in water and the latter with lemon juice or vinegar. I did an extensive repair on an A2000 some time back using a paintbrush and vinegar which brought it up a treat. I use a product called Bloc Lube as the varnish, it's naturally green. I have a job to do for someone tomorrow and then I can build the wash tank and report back the day after or by Friday at the latest.

03 February 2014, 15:33	#15
edd_jedi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London / UK Posts: 420	No idea if this is best practice or not, but when I removed the leaking battery from my A4000 I used lemon juice on the affected (and surrounding) area and then used a can of PCB cleaner spray to clear the area of lemon juice rather than water. It pretty much evaporated straight off so only required minimal 'drying' time. A year later still looks good to me.

03 February 2014, 15:39	#16
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Tinfoil balls sounds like a good idea. You want fresh air to be able to get anywhere. As for the temperature, if water doesn't fizz when it hits the tray, it is <100 deg so you should be safe.

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