Quake 3 on Classic

[Marlon_]

Originally Posted by Cowcat

Nice, nice review of this thread. Thanks to the Irish Amiga podcasters.

https://www.listennotes.com/e/d7bbd4...ae25a44b8e3b87

One subject that is commonly discussed is why the old PC Q3 version needed only 64 mb ram and here we need big amounts of it.

Answer: Windows has virtual ram on disk.

Maybe Thomas Richter's MMU libs have something to help in this situation?

Couldn't it just be that the ioquake3 engine is more optimized for modern computers and uses bigger textures?

[Cowcat]

It uses same big pak0 from original game and latest Id updates. Nothing special in the source to make me think about "increase all to full".

[Marlon_]

Originally Posted by Cowcat

It uses same big pak0 from original game and latest Id updates. Nothing special in the source to make me think about "increase all to full".

I was thinking that it unpacked it all in a tmp place, but only loaded necessary pieces when needed, then deleted all on exit.

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by Marlon_

I was thinking that it unpacked it all in a tmp place, but only loaded necessary pieces when needed, then deleted all on exit.

I kind of thought that's what it did too, since it takes so long on launch before it gets to menu, I haven't looked at the code so I don't know.

[jack-3d]

Originally Posted by Cowcat

I see the sky missing as you said. Anyone with the same problem?

Found it, it is just my setup at Game Options -> Low sky On and Off is turning entire sky on and off.

[Cowcat]

@jack-3d

So I didn't screw it up.

I see videos with funny blend modes when shoots go to walls and floor (black squares with white stuff slowly dissapearing) but they don't appear in my system. I know that some Q3 blend modes aren't available for Voodoo or Permedia with old minigl/warp3d (some of those modes are disabled on source) but,
Question: they still appear on last alpha version - vertex/lightmap?

Permedia could be a special case like a new video supossedly from a blizzardppc/bvision user I bitched about his wrong configuration (well, not really). Hi dude, it was me !

[jack-3d]

We all Voodoo users have black blended wall marks. I rather switched this off. There was similar situation with Heretic2 where game had to be patched.

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by jack-3d

We all Voodoo users have black blended wall marks. I rather switched this off. There was similar situation with Heretic2 where game had to be patched.

Is it that or are you also getting "black.tga not found black.jpg being used instead".

[Cowcat]

I can see briefly some shinning when ammo touches ground, that is in fact multiple squared areas and you can see "something happening" in every corner: A bug report exist on "oficial" ioquake3 nowadays.

Curious about the Heretic2 patch: On GLHexen2 I did some stuff to remove black boxes when shadows were used, but when I updated the paks they started again to show.

This also happens with Hexen2 software render (unreleased wos version) where no shadows entities exist in the game

Sorry for who asked for a Hexen2 non-GL: I have this version compiled for some time but some bug, similar to particles in older GL versions hangs the game randomly, but don't know where the problem is now.

[BULI]

Originally Posted by Cowcat

@jack-3d
Question: they still appear on last alpha version - vertex/lightmap?

Yes, Q3 Alpha8 works fine, but this black blended wall marks still appear.

About Hexen2 GL (Sonnet/Warp3D), is available for download?

[Cowcat]

About Hexen2 GL (Sonnet/Warp3D), is available for download?

Of course: Near here

black blended wall marks still appear

So, a matter of disabling "marks" or something on menu.

[BULI]

Originally Posted by Cowcat

Of course: Near here

Was so hard to find it , but now, I have full success Thank

Originally Posted by Cowcat

So, a matter of disabling "marks" or something on menu.

Hmm, maybe, I was trying but don't find anything :-(

[Cowcat]

@BULI

game options/marks on walls ?

[grelbfarlk]

Are the marks a texture? I have white marks where they hit. Sort of a white circle in the black box.

cg_marks=0 removes it.

Also should gl_guardband be on for Voodoo? I turned it on an now I'm getting 27FPS with cg_marks=0 and gl_guardband=1... still lightmap, texture quality one less than max, high geometric, trilinear etc etc.

[James]

Originally Posted by Cowcat

Time for a half working slideshow. It only works for client-local lan situations. So have a computer with an arena/server created and try to connect to it. My clumpsy WinUAE installation is too slow to do a damn thing.

Have tried the 68k version with WinUAE/Quarktex, runs fast and single player skirmish works. But there are a few graphics problems:

[Cowcat]

should gl_guardband be on for Voodoo?

On the other engines using minigl it is a recomendation to enable it, so why not this one. Certain stuff to benefit from minigl code could be used for better performance but didn't try it further as one of my Q3 versions failed miserably when running on real Amigas, although some of this features seems to be ignored or no problematic for Morphos-Trance.

Are the marks a texture?

Probably. Looks like a "null" texture used in combination with the real one to create the dimming effect just like the "wrong" ones seen in Hexen2. I suspect that some of the blending modes working with other Q engines are tailored in the Amiga sources, but I don't know what is the methodology used for them.

Have tried the 68k version with WinUAE/Quarktex

Works with single playing without going to the client/lan route? Good then

graphics problems

There is a problem with this alpha version: Minigl doesn't seem to be perfectly enabled (syncronized?) at the time of running the game, specially with windowmode where you can see parts of the screen not being rendered. Not a big problem with full screen, but I suppose that the bug about not seeing the models on the menu/player is also related. Same with cinematics that crash the engine.

Q3 expects that all opengl stuff is OK when running but old minigl isn't quite there: For example I can't enable/disable vertex_arrays on the engine because the result is always a black screen. Later versions of minigl are based on a big vertex array enabled all the time for almost any kind of rendering function. Maybe a new updated minigl for the task could be build using best of both worlds. I'm looking at that possibility with older 1.4 versions of minigl.


What about using Wazp3D & full screen?

[thellier]

Hello

>Have tried the 68k version with WinUAE/Quarktex, runs fast and single
Where is the 68k binary ? thanks for the link and howto run it (data?)

>black blended wall marks still appear
Perhaps due to the fake multi texturing: I mean drawing again the same face at same place with a lightmap texture ==> z figthing may happen if float round mode changed.
Possible fixes:
1) force rounding mode
2) use Z_LEQUAL instead of Z_EQUAL


>using Wazp3D & full screen?
I am curious if it works well :-) anyway should works better than Quarktex ...


>I know that some Q3 blend modes aren't available for Voodoo or Permedia
Cow3D check the Warp3D driver if all blend modes are supported
Can also test them manually (if the driver lie...)
Especially can search in sources for "glBlendFunc" then if you found that (say) glBlendFunc(W3D_SRC_COLOR,W3D_DST_COLOR) is used can check in cow3D by typing s d for setting this blend fucntion

Can also debug with Wazp3D what blendmode is used for a faces drawing
Enable "Debug Tex as Color" in Wazp3D Prefs
Use a 32bits display mode that allow the RGB pixels to contain the debug infos:
R contain tex num
G contain texenvmode
B blendmode stored like this(SrcFunc*16 + DstFunc);
So can determine precisely how is drawn each pixel

[Cowcat]

@thelier

Where is the 68k binary ? thanks for the link and howto run it (data?)

Binary: (if you didn't find it, is around this thread).

Data: original pak0 from original Q3 + updated pak1-pak8 from ioquake3 website. Or demo Q3 pak "out there".

Perhaps due to the fake multi texturing

Multi texturing is not really working in this version (or by means whatever fake multitexturing quake amiga engines use).

If someone can debug with Wazp3D what's really going on with textures....

Anyway, complicated for me to check out all this stuff: Radeon with tinigyl morphed has no problems, even with "unknown" gfxcard detected by minigl...but other problems lurk with other engines (like acting as a Permedia).

[Tigerskunk]

Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but, what kind of setup do you need to get this running?

Love me some Quake3...

[Cowcat]

what kind of setup do you need to get this running?

An Amiga with lots of memory + 3D card with warp3d support + biggest cpu ever.

What I've seen running:
A1200 + blizzardppc + bvision + 256 mg.
WINUAE.
Amiga 3000/4000 with mediator + voodoo3 + sonnet with 192 mg or Rapture G4.