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Old 29 February 2020, 18:37   #81
Havie
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Looks good. First guess:

Purely an animation - no need to Z order and then put fence on screen last (possibly knowing which section you are standing behind)?
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Old 29 February 2020, 18:49   #82
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Great game! And understand your dilemma.
I would go for Rolling Thunder 2 on A1200 instead!


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Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
So for an A500, the frames in the sprites would need to be cut back making the game less arcade perfect, something I'd have to consider but then it would get shit thrown at it.

A1200 I'm pretty sure I could make a perfect port, but then it will also get shit thrown at it for not running on an A500.
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Old 29 February 2020, 19:27   #83
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I would go for Rolling Thunder 2 on A1200 instead!
I'm also for Rolling Thunder 2 for AGA machines.
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Old 01 March 2020, 01:11   #84
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I'm also for Rolling Thunder 2 for AGA machines.
ouch. Rolling thunder is not easy to pass on Amiga, but rolling thunder 2 even on AGA, is not a simple feat !
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Old 03 March 2020, 01:56   #85
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I'm fine with Rolling Thunder on 1200 only, if you release the source like Rygar then it's there for someone to pickup.

At the end of the day, I'm in the camp of not caring which Amiga as long as there is a decent coin op version on the Amiga.

I mean this in the sense of tuning to optimize can take ages and might be a dead end.
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Old 03 March 2020, 12:30   #86
invent
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Oh nice work mcgeezer, got my attention. I agree with Imimmfn, release the source for someone else to pickup, if you do AGA Need the maps converted ?
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Old 03 March 2020, 13:18   #87
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I'm fine with Rolling Thunder on 1200 only
If he decides to definitely port it, mcgeezer can make a pool for voting is it gonna be A500 or 1200 port.
(so I can organize all my friends and family to register, and vote for A500 version ).
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Old 03 March 2020, 13:39   #88
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If he decides to definitely port it, mcgeezer can make a pool for voting is it gonna be A500 or 1200 port.
(so I can organize all my friends and family to register, and vote for A500 version ).
Part of the fear I have for a OCS Amiga port is that Tiertex already did it and they are active as a company.

While I can't say for certain there contract may have been just 8bit and 16bit computers and the A1200 wasn't thought about.

As mentioned above as well, graphically the A500 port done by Tiertex I don't think was that bad, the game and the music though could be worth a look at for patching...

a) Replace the CPU based sprite routines to blitter routines and
b) Replace the stupid music they put in with something much better.

Knowing now what I know about the arcade it's a tall ask for an A500 to be done arcade perfect, you need to be able to push on average around 6 48x48 4 bitplane sprites fully cookie cut.

The routines I have on the A1200 now can blit a 64x80 sprite (or parts of it) fully cookie cut across 6 bitplanes.

At the moment I'm re-implementing the hardware sprite routines so that 1 copy of the enemies can be used for both hw sprites and blitting - this is to save on memory. If the memory is small enough I will try and get a technical demo going on the A500.

Geezer
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Old 03 March 2020, 20:35   #89
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Tiertex died in 2003 (and they probably didn't own any license for the game they ported, i think US Gold was the owner).

Also on A500s with FAT Agnus and the $c00000 memory extension, you can use it like chip memory (ex. writing to $c00000+$50000 will be seen by the chipset as data written at $80000+$50000), i don't remember if it's implemented in WinUAE though.
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Old 03 March 2020, 22:11   #90
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Tiertex died in 2003 (and they probably didn't own any license for the game they ported, i think US Gold was the owner).
Sorry but this isn't correct. Tiertex (the last time I checked) are alive and kicking at companies house having filed tax returns, their company directors are still the directors of old. US Gold (Now Square Enix but before Eidos Interactive) held the publishing rights, however the development contract was given to Tiertex - the scope of which I do not know). Given they ported many games for 8bit and 16 bit computers I suspect they still have that right and I would not be willing to step on their toes (i have previously asked them for consent/permission without reply).

Quote:
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Also on A500s with FAT Agnus and the $c00000 memory extension, you can use it like chip memory (ex. writing to $c00000+$50000 will be seen by the chipset as data written at $80000+$50000), i don't remember if it's implemented in WinUAE though.
This won't help.
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Old 03 March 2020, 22:47   #91
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I would imagine it was commissional work for U.S. Gold. They shouldn't have any rights to it. This all died anyway, since U.S. Gold is gone a long time ago.
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Old 03 March 2020, 22:55   #92
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(i have previously asked them for consent/permission without reply).
...as they don't really exist now.

I think Amigajay posted detailed about them nowadays somewhere in an EAB thread; it's maximum a group of 3 people who still have the company registered but no activity / profit etc. for over a decade or something...
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Old 03 March 2020, 22:59   #93
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And that's why this "3 guys" didn't reply to McGeezers mail. They probably didn't knew what he was asking for.
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Old 03 March 2020, 23:44   #94
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...as they don't really exist now.

I think Amigajay posted detailed about them nowadays somewhere in an EAB thread; it's maximum a group of 3 people who still have the company registered but no activity / profit etc. for over a decade or something...
They do exist... and if they exist as a company then it doesn't matter, they will still have the contractual rights they had years ago to develop the games they did...

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02691194

Alive and kicking.
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Old 04 March 2020, 00:05   #95
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^ Maybe, Graeme, your best bet would be to take your laptop with WinUAE/FS-UAE, your car and drive to Macclesfield, drink some beers with these three guys and show them what you did with Rygar, then your Rolling Thunder tech demo to convince them
Who knows...
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Old 04 March 2020, 00:24   #96
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^ Maybe, Graeme, your best bet would be to take your laptop with WinUAE/FS-UAE, your car and drive to Macclesfield, drink some beers with these three guys and show them what you did with Rygar, then your Rolling Thunder tech demo to convince them
Who knows...
I can understand however why he would not do it, it hurts having someone telling you "you cannot do that because $copyrightLaw, $rightsHolder and $notSmallFee", plus is so darn stupid!!!

I have been there!

In 1993 i did an animation in deluxe paint using the house music version of a then famous rock song of an italian singer; took several months; i had the help of someone in a local video service to sync the audio, put it together in U-Matic tape and then sent it to the then popular computer graphic festival Bit.Movie.

It was an act of love towards the singer and the subject and so in my naivete' (and because contest did require it) i did got in touch with the recording label to have a permit.

It was denied, and they told me that if i wanted to get a permit i should have paid royalties for $5000 (in front of a possible $1000 gain IF the animation did came 1st) so i decided to do a similar song in protracker and redub the animation that did place 8th very probably because of that.

Later on in 2010 when the song is history i put the same original animation in Vimeo; they want it? Send me a strike and go get it!



(btw you can also find some references to Powder and other animations i have made there)

Last edited by saimon69; 04 March 2020 at 00:27. Reason: added original quote
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Old 04 March 2020, 00:41   #97
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Sorry but this isn't correct. Tiertex (the last time I checked) are alive and kicking at companies house having filed tax returns, their company directors are still the directors of old. US Gold (Now Square Enix but before Eidos Interactive) held the publishing rights, however the development contract was given to Tiertex - the scope of which I do not know). Given they ported many games for 8bit and 16 bit computers I suspect they still have that right and I would not be willing to step on their toes (i have previously asked them for consent/permission without reply).
Mate thats not how it works.

US Gold licenced Rolling Thunder from Namco.

US Gold then CONTRACTED Tiertex to program and deliver versions of Rolling Thunder for all 8 bit systems and both ST and Amiga.

Once Tiertex delivers all promised versions to US Gold and they are then released, that is Tiertexs involvement over and done and onto the next CONTRACTED conversion.

Tiertex is contracted by US Gold, Tiertex has NO connection nor involvement with Namco.

US Golds licence with Namco is a one off, i.e. they have the rights to publish on the formats they've licenced, and that no other company will be afforded those rights to the same formats.

So, exclusions would be that if US Gold didn't licence for Megadrive and Nintendo NES, Namco are within their rights to allow someone else to licence Rolling Thunder for those consoles.

The licence US Gold would have had with Namco is a standard one, i.e. they would have had a time limit on how long they had to get the game to market, otherwise they lose the licence.

US Golds home conversion licence expired decades ago, it expired before US Gold was even bought out by Eidos.

Seeking permission from Tiertex? You would get a better response from asking McDonalds Head Office!!!!!
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Old 04 March 2020, 00:46   #98
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They do exist... and if they exist as a company then it doesn't matter, they will still have the contractual rights they had years ago to develop the games they did...
Tiertex might exist, but I can assure you there is NO contractual rights still in existence or force decades later that involve them unless they specifically owned the rights to the games in question, which in regard to US Gold they only owned one which was Human Killing Machine.

That contract was satisfied and concluded the second they handed over the final version on whatever format US Gold needed to release, and the contract would have been between Tiertex and US Gold, the latter which doesn't exist.

Once the contract has been fulfilled, the contract is then spent, it is not something that gets to haunt people 30 years later!
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Old 04 March 2020, 01:10   #99
DamienD
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Thanks for your posts Galahad

@Graeme; I think that if this were really a problem i.e. "porting games to an ancient 30 year old computer system without asking for money"; you'd have bigger issues with the already completed "Bomb Jack" and "Rygar"... I mean, both were all over the Retro scene yet nada in terms of kickback.

Have you had serious response when asking for permission; or threatening e-mails / lawsuits from Tehkan or Tecmo as a result thus far? No...

So I really don't understand why you're so worried about "Rolling Thunder" or indeed "Shinobi"?
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Old 04 March 2020, 01:15   #100
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It's still an existing and active Namco IP. Last release was included on "Namco Museum" for the Switch. One should ask there. Not Tiertex. But Namco wouldn't give Graeme a license anyway. So, it's just like Rygar or Bomb Jack.
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