Karateka (ST Port) - Page 2

meynaf · 15 January 2016, 20:43

There is no reason why it shouldn't work on 68000, apart speed of the screen conversion.

DamienD · 15 January 2016, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat666

Speak for yourself. I think most people on here would be thrilled to have Karateka on the amiga even if it only runs on 030. Go meynaf!

@meynaf; "Automation Menu Disk 052 (19xx)(Automation).zip" is now in The Zone! in case this helps

meynaf · 18 January 2016, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

@meynaf; "Automation Menu Disk 052 (19xx)(Automation).zip" is now in The Zone! in case this helps

It doesn't really help, but the second version you uploaded seems quite usable, so thanks anyway.

I have disassembled it fully but it uses some kind of script system (with WHAT has this game been written ??) and is not an "easy" one.

DamienD · 18 January 2016, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

It doesn't really help, but the second version you uploaded seems quite usable, so thanks anyway.

I have disassembled it fully but it uses some kind of script system (with WHAT has this game been written ??) and is not an "easy" one.

Oh that's great news that you can actually make a start

If we can help further by trying to source other files then let us know. I'll also keep on eye on eBay / auction sites to see if an original becomes available (and if so purchase)

May the force be with you!!!

s2325 · 19 January 2016, 20:49

Karateka walkthrough & hints are on ST disk electric_mouse_docs_disk_(19xx)(sewer_possum) if someone want to avoid Internet solutions.

TjLaZer · 20 January 2016, 04:18

I have a clean Atari ST version here: (720k format ST image)

http://vintagecomputercafe.com/atari...Broderbund).st

meynaf · 20 January 2016, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

I have a clean Atari ST version here: (720k format ST image)

http://vintagecomputercafe.com/atari...Broderbund).st

This version is the same as the compilation version i already have.

My problem is no longer finding a correct version anyway, it's making something that works out of that mess.

DamienD · 20 January 2016, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

My problem is no longer finding a correct version anyway, it's making something that works out of that mess.

We all have faith in you meynaf

If anyone can it's you (given your outstanding track record of previously ported Atari ST games that must have also been very tricky)

meynaf · 20 January 2016, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

We all have faith in you meynaf

If anyone can it's you (given your outstanding track record of previously ported Atari ST games that must have also been very tricky)

Don't have too much faith or it might deceive you.

This one is very special. The deeper i go into it, the more i find amazing the mess that can be made out of a quite simple game.
At first it looked like a simple scripting system. But the script itself does stupid things like absolute addressing (including hardware accesses). And there is something like 90k of script to decipher...

Not meaning it is not doable. But it's gonna be too much time and work than it's worth. So unless i can find extra motivation somewhere, i won't do much more work on that stuff.
Oh, ok. I guess i could just ask for money sent to me @free.fr via paypal, but i don't like the idea (even though any gift would be welcome)...

Asman · 20 January 2016, 18:13

@meynaf

Just for information.
All games which I checked from Andromeda Software uses this kind of emulation or whatever. I checked Moon Patrol, Crystal Castles, Millipede, Robotron 2084.
Some time ago (two years ago or something) I started with Crystal Castles and I really stuck with this. When I find some free time then I back to Crystal Castles. Or perhaps I should start with easiest and smallest Andromeda Software game.

This is only speculation but I think that script system is kind of 8-bit emulation. Probably Andromeda Software have access to original 8 bit sources and semi-automatically do such conversion.

meynaf · 21 January 2016, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asman

@meynaf

Just for information.
All games which I checked from Andromeda Software uses this kind of emulation or whatever. I checked Moon Patrol, Crystal Castles, Millipede, Robotron 2084.
Some time ago (two years ago or something) I started with Crystal Castles and I really stuck with this. When I find some free time then I back to Crystal Castles. Or perhaps I should start with easiest and smallest Andromeda Software game.

The only way seems to be to convert the script back into something more readable.
Do you have a full resource of Crystal Castles ? If this is the same system, then joining our efforts could be a good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asman

This is only speculation but I think that script system is kind of 8-bit emulation. Probably Andromeda Software have access to original 8 bit sources and semi-automatically do such conversion.

As it is stack based, it's probably not an asm conversion. Might be a conversion from 8-bit basics.

Asman · 21 January 2016, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

The only way seems to be to convert the script back into something more readable.

Yes that would be great idea, but I think that is a lot of work.
The other thing is how accurate/good those games are ? Mean how close to the arcade version they are. I mean about arcade conversions of course. Perhaps much easier will be make a port from original arcade version (with mame debugger) instead of fighting with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

Do you have a full resource of Crystal Castles ? If this is the same system, then joining our efforts could be a good idea.

I have resource of Crystal Castles but I don't think that is a full. I sent to you PM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

As it is stack based, it's probably not an asm conversion. Might be a conversion from 8-bit basics.

I've no idea, perhaps you're right.

meynaf · 21 January 2016, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asman

Yes that would be great idea, but I think that is a lot of work.

It's that, or not making the port at all.
Note that it can be partially automated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asman

The other thing is how accurate/good those games are ? Mean how close to the arcade version they are. I mean about arcade conversions of course. Perhaps much easier will be make a port from original arcade version (with mame debugger) instead of fighting with this.

Does Karateka have an arcade version ?

Retro-Nerd · 21 January 2016, 13:32

Quote:

Does Karateka have an arcade version ?

I guess Asman meant Crystal Castles, not Karateka.

Asman · 21 January 2016, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

Does Karateka have an arcade version ?

Nope. The question is what version is the best (C64, Atari 8 bit, Atari ST, Apple II).

DamienD · 21 January 2016, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asman

Nope. The question is what version is the best (C64, Atari 8 bit, Atari ST, Apple II).

From what I've seen definitely the Atari ST version (at least in terms of graphics).

DamienD · 25 January 2016, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

Don't have too much faith or it might deceive you.

This one is very special. The deeper i go into it, the more i find amazing the mess that can be made out of a quite simple game.
At first it looked like a simple scripting system. But the script itself does stupid things like absolute addressing (including hardware accesses). And there is something like 90k of script to decipher...

Not meaning it is not doable. But it's gonna be too much time and work than it's worth. So unless i can find extra motivation somewhere, i won't do much more work on that stuff.
Oh, ok. I guess i could just ask for money sent to me @free.fr via paypal, but i don't like the idea (even though any gift would be welcome)...

Hello there meynaf,

Not sure if you were serious or not about your last line; it doesn't matter really.

Anyway, I've just given you an "incentive" to try to get this port completed (if it is possible). It's also really a thank you for all the other numerous ports / games you've done and spent your valuable personal time on

meynaf · 25 January 2016, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Hello there meynaf,

Not sure if you were serious or not about your last night; it doesn't matter really.

Anyway, I've just given you an "incentive" to try to get this port completed (if it is possible). It's also really a thank you for all the other numerous ports / games you've done and spent your valuable personal time on

I will try harder to make that port then

For now i've got something better than just a black screen ; i can actually see the story. So even though i don't really have faith on it, i have good hope i'll finally manage to make it work.

DamienD · 25 January 2016, 11:06

Great news meynaf

Please don't take this incentive as meaning that you have to get something done / completed. If it becomes too complex / difficult and you feel you can't go any further then so be it

meynaf · 01 February 2016, 17:43

Some news...

I have been able to play karateka from my current version (winuae feels more comfortable to use than steem, btw).

I have a few issues regarding sound and keyboard input. If these get solved it may well be release time

One of the sounds oddly refuses to play (and i don't have a clue why).
I think i should be able to play samples rather than the st synth sounds ; however i obviously need good enough samples (music and sfx are all done the same way in the game and i know where the script calls them).

Keyboard input behaves strangely and the code doesn't help much.
It is very likely that the behavior won't be the same, and i have no clue what the 'perfect' keyboard handling would be (the atari version doesn't feel 'right' in that aspect either).

It seems some keys are used for some function but they don't map to anything on the atari keyboard.
Does someone have the complete keyboard command list ?

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15 January 2016, 20:43	#21
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,323	There is no reason why it shouldn't work on 68000, apart speed of the screen conversion.

19 January 2016, 20:49	#25
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	Karateka walkthrough & hints are on ST disk electric_mouse_docs_disk_(19xx)(sewer_possum) if someone want to avoid Internet solutions.

20 January 2016, 04:18	#26
TjLaZer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,915	I have a clean Atari ST version here: (720k format ST image) http://vintagecomputercafe.com/atari...Broderbund).st

20 January 2016, 18:13	#30
Asman 68k Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Somewhere Posts: 828	@meynaf Just for information. All games which I checked from Andromeda Software uses this kind of emulation or whatever. I checked Moon Patrol, Crystal Castles, Millipede, Robotron 2084. Some time ago (two years ago or something) I started with Crystal Castles and I really stuck with this. When I find some free time then I back to Crystal Castles. Or perhaps I should start with easiest and smallest Andromeda Software game. This is only speculation but I think that script system is kind of 8-bit emulation. Probably Andromeda Software have access to original 8 bit sources and semi-automatically do such conversion.

25 January 2016, 11:06	#39
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Great news meynaf Please don't take this incentive as meaning that you have to get something done / completed. If it becomes too complex / difficult and you feel you can't go any further then so be it

01 February 2016, 17:43	#40
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,323	Some news... I have been able to play karateka from my current version (winuae feels more comfortable to use than steem, btw). I have a few issues regarding sound and keyboard input. If these get solved it may well be release time One of the sounds oddly refuses to play (and i don't have a clue why). I think i should be able to play samples rather than the st synth sounds ; however i obviously need good enough samples (music and sfx are all done the same way in the game and i know where the script calls them). Keyboard input behaves strangely and the code doesn't help much. It is very likely that the behavior won't be the same, and i have no clue what the 'perfect' keyboard handling would be (the atari version doesn't feel 'right' in that aspect either). It seems some keys are used for some function but they don't map to anything on the atari keyboard. Does someone have the complete keyboard command list ?

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