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Old 12 February 2019, 02:49   #21
005AGIMA
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Thanks for the discussion guys.

It doesn't surprise me that Mac popped up. I was expecting that.

I've always had a pathological hatred for Apple. Over priced, under-powered pretty boy machines.

But oddly after re-discovering my Amiga passion, I had begun to contemplate that perhaps the Mac IS the modern Amiga in many ways.

Lack of gaming support lets it down, as does the price point IF comparing it to the A500 niche, however compare the Pro Mac's with the Big Box Amiga's for "creativity" and I think you'd have to argue that Mac it is.

Hell I even found myself looking up the price of a Mac Mini yesterday with this in mind. God that's a pretty looking piece of kit (from an Apple hater remember). Price point would be comparable to an A500 i'd argue taking into account inflation.....but it's no good for "the games of it's day" unless you add an eGPU and then you're spending $$$ again. And I'm sorry but pretty though it is, you could build a respectable gaming PC for the same price.....in a Mini ITX case if that floats your boat.

So I do think that for gamers, the "console" takes the place as the device of choice if on a budget. But that brings another frustration to mind.

A console is EASILY a capable machine for productivity, but all of that is locked out unless you root it and load another OS.

I think that's a shame.

They mostly all support Keyboard and mouse these days, but dont let you do anything with that feature. They even lack a good enough browser to comfortably allow access to Google Docs or Office365 online. If only that were possible, I'd argue you have the "micro computer" back again.

How is it that a $1200 Mac mini can do everything up to video editing, but can't play games well? While a $350 console can play games just fine, but can't handle a decent browser, or a Word document? Of course it could. It's just not allowed to. Even a phone does it better..... a $100 one.

But you're right in saying "times have changed".

We dont save and save for 1 device any more. We carry Amiga beating computers in our pockets, and have a PC, and maybe a mac, and a laptop, tablet, console...what ever we want.

And not just well off families anymore. It seems everyone can afford all the tech they want.

So as a business, why would you make 1 machine to rule them all? You'd make several and hope to sell them all to the same punter.

But as a device to get under your skin, I'd have to concede that perhaps only Apple have that badge of honor in this day and age.

Those are my thoughts anyway.
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Old 12 February 2019, 14:17   #22
turrican3
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since the amiga nothing goes under my skin really.
But i must admit that if sony would buy amigaos, enhance it, put it on a ps5 and make it totally compatible with the real ps5, it could be for me a good thing, something i would like to test.
And better, if the hardware could be in a keyboard case like the amiga was, why not.
But the most important is that it should have the amigaos enhanced or something like it, a low price wit creative tools. Something fresh and simple.
In a easier way : a low price computer compatible ps5 games with an amigaos like os, perhaps with the ps5 sdk preinstalled.
In my view only a few big companies are enough strong to make it and myself i just see sony but perhaps nintendo or microsoft (but i don't think msoft would have an interest to do it).
Even easier a sdk open to the public with a low price, and with all the minimum tools needed today (firefox,open office, etc).
In my mind it seems cool.
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Old 12 February 2019, 14:25   #23
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Why would you want that?

You dont need to pay anything for a 'SDK' for non-walled garden platforms.
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Old 12 February 2019, 14:46   #24
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Originally Posted by turrican3 View Post
[...] if sony would buy amigaos, enhance it, put it on a ps5 and make it totally compatible with the real ps5, it could be for me a good thing, something i would like to test. [...]
As SONY is worst than Cloanto regarding the DRM, no thanks.
I will never forget this simple SONY digital recorder I bought ~+20 years ago. I wasn't able to transfer the voice file to my computer without connecting it to Internet (to "DRM" the recording) .
Quickly returned to the shop for a refund.
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Old 12 February 2019, 14:52   #25
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The key to using a Mac is realising that the Apple manufactured machines are garbage and building a Hackintosh.

Honestly, anyone who doesn't use macOS is seriously missing out. Give it a try if you've got compatible hardware, you'll never look back.
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Old 12 February 2019, 15:15   #26
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I've built Hackintosh's in the past but honestly, it just became too much of a pain in the arse so I went back to the real thing. And I can't see a future for Hackintosh's in general forever anyway. As soon as Apple can get the OS and all it's hardware back into Arm or something else under their control they will and the era of the powerful but cheap Hackintosh will be over.

I love Macs, more so MacOS (I even have an eGPU) but the problem with them is that they are all, without exception laptops. Even if they are not in a laptop shell they are still laptops and they all suffer from the heat and other problems that go along with laptops. That is the primary reason that they are not good at gaming. It's not because they can't game, they can, but the experience is not a pleasant one. It's OK if you don't mind something that sounds like a jet engine taking off and gets very, very hot, and yeah, the visuals are usually dialled down compared to their Windows counterparts.

So what replaces an Amiga for me? A console for games primarily (take your pick I own all the main ones but Nintendo Switch is the 'go-to' right now) and a Mac for everything else.

One of the bosses in a place I used to work always used to have a dig at me as to why anyone would want to use a Mac. He was a Linux guy. I shut him up forever when I explained to him that as far as I was concerned my Mac was a machine with the best UI there has ever been for Linux*. He couldn't argue with that and the subject never came up again.

[PS] * Yes, I know MacOS is not a Linux distro before anyone says anything.
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Old 12 February 2019, 15:15   #27
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Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Honestly, anyone who doesn't use macOS is seriously missing out.

... seriously missing a lot of nice looking garbage? Undocumented filesystems anybody?

(sorry, slightly OT, but I could not resist)
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Old 12 February 2019, 16:18   #28
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... seriously missing a lot of nice looking garbage? Undocumented filesystems anybody?

(sorry, slightly OT, but I could not resist)
Filesystem bashing from Amiga-friends? We should not throw stones, while we sit in our glasshouse
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Old 12 February 2019, 16:36   #29
gimbal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post
But as a device to get under your skin, I'd have to concede that perhaps only Apple have that badge of honor in this day and age.

Those are my thoughts anyway.
Nah, Post-Steve Jobs Apple is making sure that is not the case anymore. They used to have good machines, but especially Macbooks took a real nosedive in quality. All flash and no punch.
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Old 12 February 2019, 16:44   #30
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Definitely MAC here too (20 years ago I would spit on the ground - Ptoooy at the mention of Apple). I got my first Mac 14 years ago, a 1.42GHz Mini w/ Tiger. Updated to Leopard. Then downgraded back to Panther (68K support). Real workhorses. I can still trick Leopard into playing pretty much any YT video and one of the 1.5’s is still my primary MP3 machine. Since, I’ve bought two 1.5GHz Mini’s, an Apple IIc, an Apple LCIII w/AppleCD SC Plus, Apple 20SC, maxed out w/ethernet & updated to OS7.5.3 Rev 2 and an Intel Mini (daily driver). They are truly the most Amiga like IMO. Still have many Win machines including Win10 (hate it), and my prized Asus 150MHz Pentium DOS machine.
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Old 14 February 2019, 16:18   #31
005AGIMA
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On topic I feel, discovered these while researching Mini PC options and Mac Mini alternatives.

Intel NUC Haydes Canyon

Looks like it kicks a Mac Mini's arse....in front of the Mac Mini's wife, and she likes it.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...nuc8i7hvk.html


Around the same price as a Mac Mini (or less depending on model) BUT.....Ram, Storage, KB and Mouse is additional to be fare.

Watched a few vids and seems to be a capable gaming machine out of the box running i7 with Radeon Vega integrated GPU sharing system Ram, with the option of adding an external eGPU if you feel the need.

WOW!

Last edited by 005AGIMA; 14 February 2019 at 16:24.
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Old 20 February 2019, 07:41   #32
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Micro-computer style "Keyboard PCs"

On the topic of what I'd class as "micro-computer style", there are some things still poking around, but the specs always suck, and they're niche and hard to find.

And of course, they're basically a laptop without a screen. :/

Cybernet ZPC-H6
Aimed at business' like banks and POS.

https://www.cybernetman.com/en/keyboard-pc
[ Show youtube player ]

K3 Wintel Keyboard PC
Personally I really like the look of this little unit for a possible Spectrum Emulator.....nothing else.

https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wh...y-Keyboard-PC/
[ Show youtube player ]

I think the nostalgia market is possibly too limited, but if someone produced a mechanical Keyboard PC, in a retro "non-specific" case, with the spec of say the Intel NUC Haydes Canyon I posted above....at a reasonable price......

....hell I'd be tempted.
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Old 20 February 2019, 09:58   #33
Amigajay
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I wouldnt even touch that Chinese PC with a bargepole! Like 99% of their crap it will no doubt work for 5 mins before crashing and unable to reboot or the memory gets corrupted just like the company selling them!

Back on topic, only my Windows laptop gets used, but PC gaming compatibility still sucks so i dont bother gaming on it, just DTP, PSP mainly.
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Old 20 February 2019, 10:06   #34
005AGIMA
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
I wouldnt even touch that Chinese PC with a bargepole! Like 99% of their crap it will no doubt work for 5 mins before crashing and unable to reboot or the memory gets corrupted just like the company selling them!

Back on topic, only my Windows laptop gets used, but PC gaming compatibility still sucks so i dont bother gaming on it, just DTP, PSP mainly.
oh we're on the same page 100%. I was simply stating that the form factor is still around, all be it, in a very limited numbers.

PC gaming has always been a combination of awesomeness for the rich, and frustration for everyone else.

The need to check "recommended system requirements" continues to this day, and kidding yourself that it'll run fine on the "minimum system requirements" does also.
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Old 20 February 2019, 21:32   #35
spiff
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Amiga for me was couch vs, bomberman, IK+ and making music/graphics. From a "holistic" perspective, the gaming/creation association in a positive light

PC/Mac connected to a TV with 4 Xbox controllers and Steam Big screen is the natural progression imo. Esp with Indie games
  • Sonic all stars racing / Mario Kart
  • Nidhog
  • Towerfall
  • Some scene demos and youtube.

And then when you've put the kids to bed
  • Capture One - Photo editing on a level that professionals paid $2000 just years ago
  • Reaper (and plugins) - noistracker++++.. but More or less a complete studio .. for $50
  • Amplitube - Realtime metallica guitar.. on a computer!? still blows my mind.
  • Unreal engine - Amos, just so much more
  • Oculus VR - What we were promised in 93, but this time better (Try moss or beat saber if you ever get the chance!)
  • Emulators - All the old stuff better than ever, especially without all the cables

The whole, you can't be having any fun because I hate it angle is just so tiresome.

Last edited by spiff; 20 February 2019 at 22:01.
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Old 21 February 2019, 06:10   #36
005AGIMA
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We're all wrong. Nostalgia Nerd has the answer....and it's.....a Wii
[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 21 February 2019, 09:20   #37
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I've built Hackintosh's in the past but honestly, it just became too much of a pain in the arse so I went back to the real thing.
Nothing about it is a pain in the arse. I can install macOS and have sound (both analog and HDMI), wifi, ethernet, and everything else working in under an hour.
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Old 21 February 2019, 09:43   #38
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Besides winUAE, nothing can replace the Amiga. However, I do enjoy Pico-8 a lot, a fantasy console that even runs on an RPI and gives back that enjoyment of programming I had on the Amiga as well.
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Old 24 February 2019, 14:26   #39
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I've heard DragonFly BSD takes some Amiga concepts? Someone with a bit more knowledge might be able to shed light on that.
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Old 25 February 2019, 02:46   #40
005AGIMA
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I've heard DragonFly BSD takes some Amiga concepts? Someone with a bit more knowledge might be able to shed light on that.
Interesting....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragonFly_BSD

"Matthew Dillon, an Amiga developer in the late 1980s and early 1990s and FreeBSD developer between 1994 and 2003, began working on DragonFly BSD in June 2003 and announced it on the FreeBSD mailing lists on 16 July 2003."

"...Many design concepts were influenced by AmigaOS."

"DragonFly BSD supports Amiga-style resident applications feature: it takes a snapshot of a large, dynamically linked program's virtual memory space after loading, allowing future instances of the program to start much more quickly than it otherwise would have. "
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