Virus in SPS release

[Methanoid]

I vote FiX them

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Methanoid

I vote FiX them

+1

[Cassiel]

I vote no (sorry Crashdisk).... representing the disk 100% accurately is only the right thing to do. If there were/are 'errors' in the original disk then that's that.

I also don't think it's a great idea to widely spread 'fixed' IPFs either... provide info to users of how to remove the malware, sure... but prowler is right - you know what will happen, these 'proper' IPF images will get widely distributed as the 'corrected' game...

Anyway... just my 2cents (as a non-hardcore Amiga community member and TOSEC old timer).

[mai]

Only IPFs created by SPS guys are valid for TOSEC preservation!

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by prowler

I am, quite frankly, dismayed by this attitude. Personally, I find it very discouraging.

I have to say that, although the warts and all approach is an honourable one, I think it would be a mistake to give unofficial IPFs the opportunity to become the preferred versions in this instance, or indeed in any instance for whatever reason.

Just my 2 cents.

IPF's are 1:1 copies of original games so the decision to keep the virus bootblocks is perfectly fine IMHO. There's nothing dismaying about that! Most users keep their disks write protected anyway so the virus bootblocks won't do any harm.

[Crashdisk]

Originally Posted by Cassiel

I vote no (sorry Crashdisk)....

Sorry for what? I just want to inform users of the presence of viruses (with [v] flag). Nothing more!

[mai]

in general, why changing anything in IPFs, removing viruses and so on, in case of a virus, convert to ADF and remove the beast.

[prowler]

I knew I would open a can of worms by posting my opinion above.

Thanks for all your replies!

[mai]

back to the meaning of the thread!
Possible solution:
-renaming IPFs inside multi-zip to TNC style
-single-zip renamed IPFs
this means, allowing double crc32 then.

[Cassiel]

Originally Posted by Crashdisk

Sorry for what? I just want to inform users of the presence of viruses (with [v] flag). Nothing more!

Typing failure... didn't mean you, meant the other disagreeing. /slaps for Cassiel

Originally Posted by mai

back to the meaning of the thread!
Possible solution:
-renaming IPFs inside multi-zip to TNC style
-single-zip renamed IPFs
this means, allowing double crc32 then.

Well you know what I think....

No different from ADF though right? ADF = IPF on *this* subject?
i.e.
Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 1 of 2)(US).adf (CRC 123456A) + Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 2 of 2)(US).adf (CRC 123456B)
Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 1 of 2)(EU).adf (CRC 123456C) + Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 2 of 2)(EU).adf (CRC 123456B)

How do you treat INDIVIDUAL ADF disks atm? Can't remember what the answer was (and we never explicitly defined in TNC). Dupes or no dupes? Surely what's right for ADF is good for...?

[lesta_smsc]

I like the idea - "if it's messed up to start with, let that be the memory we remember it by"

[Dunny]

So (and you can correct me if I'm wrong here), these games actually came from the original duplicators with viruses installed? They actually went into the shrink-wrap and went on sale with viruses?

'Cos if they didn't, then you can't claim that these (IPF images) are exact images of the original disks, can you?

D.

[mr.vince]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

We could ask Kaffer to generate clean unofficial IPF

Yes, because having more than one IPF of the very same disk, one original, and one _modified_, is what the community needs. Then have someone correct spelling... wait, I am going to answer that below...

Originally Posted by prowler

I am, quite frankly, dismayed by this attitude. Personally, I find it very discouraging.

[...]

Just my 2 cents.

IPFs are 1:1 representations of the ORIGINAL media. As sold in the stores. We are not fixing spelling mistakes, we are not making things politically correct. We don't take out Svastikas in Rocket Ranger or put them back in again. We don't translate stuff, we don't correct factual errors in games dealing with history. That's how those games shipped...

Originally Posted by Methanoid

I vote FiX them

So, go ahead. Start another collection. Call it "nearly preserved" or "slightly modified". It will be more original than "true" cracks in Tosec, but less original than IPFs.

Originally Posted by StingRay

IPF's are 1:1 copies of original games so the decision to keep the virus bootblocks is perfectly fine IMHO. There's nothing dismaying about that! Most users keep their disks write protected anyway so the virus bootblocks won't do any harm.

All I can say is that back in the day I would check every disk inserted for viruses. I never had a game with a virus, but if it had had a virus, I'd have not removed it on the original media. Instead I would have disinfected the copy.

Originally Posted by mai

in general, why changing anything in IPFs, removing viruses and so on, in case of a virus, convert to ADF and remove the beast.

I like the idea very much.

Originally Posted by Dunny

So (and you can correct me if I'm wrong here), these games actually came from the original duplicators with viruses installed? They actually went into the shrink-wrap and went on sale with viruses? 'Cos if they didn't, then you can't claim that these (IPF images) are exact images of the original disks, can you?

You are a clever guy. Yes, these games shipped with viruses installed, I must assume by accident. Just like you do spelling mistakes by accident, or you forget to include the correct samples for the music (like for Agony). Would you want to correct that as well?

[Feltzkrone]

For an easier understanding, just compare software with pictures, which need to be restored from time to time. No picture restorer would paint a fifth finger to a human hand appearing on the picture, just because it would "normally" be correct that way. He would only want to undo what's clearly signs of the times, i.e. recover the original (possibly "bad") state of the picture. Even if the artist himself admits he made a mistake like forgetting to paint a fifth finger, no one would want to see the original artwork being modified, as in the end it means loosing the original artwork forever, very much like loosing the (historical) fact that a certain game has been published with a virus on its disks.

Think of software preservation as of software history documentation, including 1:1 copies of all the data, including copy protection, including mastering mistakes, including bugs, including everything else actually on disk when initially sold, even if it might be considered bad by most people.

[mai]

One question remains for me regarding those games, where currently version only with virus is known.
Exists maybe a second batch, where the virus was removed(by developer/publisher) before mastering?

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by mr.vince

You are a clever guy. Yes, these games shipped with viruses installed, I must assume by accident. Just like you do spelling mistakes by accident, or you forget to include the correct samples for the music (like for Agony). Would you want to correct that as well?

Of course not, and you've obviously not read my post. Where did I say that the actual shop-bought images should be modified?

Be civil.

D.

[mr.vince]

Originally Posted by Dunny

Of course not, and you've obviously not read my post. Where did I say that the actual shop-bought images should be modified?

Be civil.

D.

I did. You said

'Cos if they didn't, then you can't claim that these (IPF images) are exact images of the original disks, can you?

and my answer was that you were right.

I continued answering to the requests above to modify these, but it wasn't your request to do so... Just happens when you reply to a bunch of posts. No insult. Really. I mean it.

Originally Posted by mai

One question remains for me regarding those games, where currently version only with virus is known.
Exists maybe a second batch, where the virus was removed(by developer/publisher) before mastering?

Could be they did a running replacement but for those IPFed with the virus, we only have one or more dumps of this very version. The moment we'd get a replicated disk without virus, this would be IPFed as another version as well.

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by Feltzkrone

For an easier understanding, just compare software with pictures, which need to be restored from time to time. No picture restorer would paint a fifth finger to a human hand appearing on the picture, just because it would "normally" be correct that way. He would only want to undo what's clearly signs of the times, i.e. recover the original (possibly "bad") state of the picture.

I think that's a terrible example to be honest. I liken this more to Picasso paints a picture and while it's delivered to the art gallery, is dropped and a piece falls off the corner. You can either place the piece back into the painting as it was originally or leave the chunk missing.

By leaving viruses on the disk you are not preserving the original painting at all, just the "arrived at the gallery damaged version".

[Leffmann]

I rarely look into the TOSEC and I don't even know how to get hold of IPFs, but I think the games should be preserved as they were mastered, but responsibly marked as containing virii.

It's the difference between collecting games and preserving history.

[1time]

If the viruses in the IPF´s does not get removed. It is just a mather of time before we have IPF-Virus-Fixed versions.

Remove the virus or split the .ZIP file and mark each IPF with a [v].