PC DOS setup - plain english please

buckrogers · 29 March 2005, 13:28

OK. I admit it. I have ventured to the dask side of PC DOS gaming. Problem is, in trying to get together a suitable system, one is bamboozled by all sorts of x86 jargon on those PC DOS forums. Those people are freaks.

Just what do I need to play DOS games ranging from Wasteland to Ultima VII, to System Shock 2? Do I need to different setups? What sound and video cards are recommended?

Note that I am playing almost exclusively RPG's, hence sometimes the extra speed due to inappropriately fast CPU is actually welcomed. Any ideas Keropi?

keropi · 29 March 2005, 14:05

Nice

First get a copy of IBM's PC-DOS 7.x
there is extensive info on the net on how to make a multi-config config.sys/autoexec.bat in order to skip using bootdisks for different memory requirements. A menu will be displayed on startup, which will allow you to select the configs u make...
I recommend PCDOS over MSDOS, because of its better tools, and better memory management.
As for sound, go for an ISA sound card, preferably a SoundBlaster AWE64. You need ISA, as some older games poll for interrupts there...
For VGA, just get a pci one, or if u can get , a PCI voodoo3 card... no probs there
ask me, I am a DOS-kid

wlcina · 29 March 2005, 14:34

BTW system shock 2 is running on winxp without problems, also If you have strong machine you can use DOSBOX program to run older games in winxp. It is very simple, and if you read readme file you can setup everything : page : http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/

buckrogers · 29 March 2005, 14:50

Thanks very much fellas. Keropi, you are DOS-kid and a PPC accelerator lover!?! wlcina, that's good news - I'll leave the current gen PC to run system shock 2 and have a dedicated retro rig for older DOS, win95 games.

I'll try a Pentium 133 and see if the late 80's dos games work. If not I'll bang together a 486.

Will a SoundBlaster AWE64 support older DOS rpg games or do I need an SB pro, or 16?

The most confusing thing (other than doing bat files etc.) is knowing which period of games will work with which period of hardware. I'll have a hunt around to pin down compatibility for particular games on a machine of the specs I mentioned.

I will update in a couple of weeks when I have something running.

TikTok · 29 March 2005, 16:49

@wlcina
You have System Shock 2 running under XP?

I cannot persuade it to run at all - always gives an illegal operation during the CD check. Did you do anything special to make it run?

@buckrogers
VMDSound (sourceforge.net/projects/vdmsound/) is also nice for running some games that won't work with DOSBox. It lets your DirectX sound card appear as a SoundBlaster 16, AdLib, etc. Mainly useful for early Win95/98 games in my experience.

Amiga1992 · 29 March 2005, 17:53

THread moved, Hardware forum is for AMIGA hardware subjects.

Mr Creosote · 29 March 2005, 18:04

I wrote a little guide about configuring MS-DOS many years ago. Probably helpful, probably not.

Fred the Fop · 29 March 2005, 18:11

I cannot believe you have not tried Dosbox, the superb DOS emulator...
or have you?

http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1

buckrogers · 29 March 2005, 18:16

Yes Fred, am using at the moment in lieu of a retro hardware setup. Don't mind it all. But I'd like to see the real thing first, and then compare. Besides, I am a sucker for hardware, as you are for bread crumbs.

wlcina · 29 March 2005, 19:22

yes, SS2 is running under winxp, try to find ss2 windows 2000 fix (that is executable (cracked I think))

buckrogers · 29 March 2005, 19:44

OK. So I need an ISA card. But do I need a midi daughter card? Should I get a Yamaha DB50XG or Roland. What about a Gravis Ultrasound? What difference does it make?

redblade · 30 March 2005, 10:56

hmm for 80s games, may be best to use DosBox on a new fast PC, or the old 80s games, may spit up errors about ram, need XMS or EMS, or some jargon, like that.

Man I had to be the hell geek to get old games running on my 486/66.

although demos/shareware struggle to run on my PIV-1.5ghz under XP damnit (warcraft 2), ie VEISA error ?? (some screen bullshit) and under dosbox, the cpu ain't fast enough. Also can't play some Terminator 3d game, I think it's system shock under XP, and cpu is to slow for DOSBOX. grrh.

I wish some one could code like a 'killaga' for win xp that redirects screen/audio output to directx for old dos games.

oh well i'll just wait another 3 years for a faster cpu to dosbox it :/

Fred the Fop · 30 March 2005, 11:06

heheheh Buck..you know i prefer wet hot dog buns

TikTok · 30 March 2005, 11:56

@redblade
Try VDMSound - it redirects sound to DirectX and also has some basic VESA options.

Mr Creosote · 30 March 2005, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckrogers

OK. So I need an ISA card. But do I need a midi daughter card? Should I get a Yamaha DB50XG or Roland. What about a Gravis Ultrasound? What difference does it make?

It all depends how old the games you want to play are. Up until 1990, only FM music is usually supported. Getting a Soundblaster / Adlib compatible card is essential for these games. Then, for about two or three years, Roland synthesizers got popular with the developers. Keep in mind that these are only good for music, though, not for sound effects. After that, General Midi was supported most (again, only for music - Soundblaster still remained the de facto standard for effects). Soundblaster AWE* has a software emulation mode of General Midi, but that driver is huge and quite frankly sucks badly. That card is natively supported by games made in 1995 and later. If that's your focus, it's a very good choice as it offers excellent quality if used right, and it's also compatible to the original Soundblaster as well as Soundblaster 16 by hardware, so no trouble with any older games. Another good choice would be to get a real Soundblaster 16 (not the 'Value Edition') to which you can add a Midi daughterboard (but you don't have to as that card offers some of the best FM music of the competition).

What I'd advise against is any solution which requires software drivers to emulate compatibility to said (pseudo) standards. It never works well enough. No matter how impressive a sound cards technical capabilities might be, they're no use if the games don't support them natively.

keropi · 30 March 2005, 13:17

The best is to get an ISA SB AWE64

Jope · 30 March 2005, 14:06

Dosbox gets my vote. Great stuff.

If you don't know how to configure DOS, then I suggest you take a look at dosbox without even considering autoexec.bat and config.sys tuning. :-)

(Says the man running dual boot DOS7.1 / WinXP on his laptop.. I tuned the himem load areas manually since memmaker or qemm couldn't handle the Latitude C640 without crashing. :-D)

keropi · 30 March 2005, 14:30

jope, you should really try PC-DOS... HIMEM can make UMB available and load DOS there, no need to use EMM386 for that.... that easily gives 615 kb free mem

buckrogers · 30 March 2005, 15:38

"Then, for about two or three years, Roland synthesizers got popular with the developers. Keep in mind that these are only good for music, though, not for sound effects. After that, General Midi was supported most..."

Evil mastermind, during the "Roland years", what was the specific format that was in by games? GS? Since the Roland daughtercards are General Midi, surely it was GM that was supported, and perhaps later Roland's own GS spec?

keropi · 31 March 2005, 07:22

I used mainly a YAMAHA SW20PC back then, some games work with either one Roland spec or another... I remember there where 2 options for Roland, maybe GS and SC , both work, but only one sounds correct, due to instrument mapping...

29 March 2005, 13:28	#1
buckrogers Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 107	PC DOS setup - plain english please OK. I admit it. I have ventured to the dask side of PC DOS gaming. Problem is, in trying to get together a suitable system, one is bamboozled by all sorts of x86 jargon on those PC DOS forums. Those people are freaks. Just what do I need to play DOS games ranging from Wasteland to Ultima VII, to System Shock 2? Do I need to different setups? What sound and video cards are recommended? Note that I am playing almost exclusively RPG's, hence sometimes the extra speed due to inappropriately fast CPU is actually welcomed. Any ideas Keropi?

29 March 2005, 14:50	#4
buckrogers Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 107	Thanks very much fellas. Keropi, you are DOS-kid and a PPC accelerator lover!?! wlcina, that's good news - I'll leave the current gen PC to run system shock 2 and have a dedicated retro rig for older DOS, win95 games. I'll try a Pentium 133 and see if the late 80's dos games work. If not I'll bang together a 486. Will a SoundBlaster AWE64 support older DOS rpg games or do I need an SB pro, or 16? The most confusing thing (other than doing bat files etc.) is knowing which period of games will work with which period of hardware. I'll have a hunt around to pin down compatibility for particular games on a machine of the specs I mentioned. I will update in a couple of weeks when I have something running. Last edited by buckrogers; 29 March 2005 at 14:59.

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29 March 2005, 14:05	#2
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	Nice First get a copy of IBM's PC-DOS 7.x there is extensive info on the net on how to make a multi-config config.sys/autoexec.bat in order to skip using bootdisks for different memory requirements. A menu will be displayed on startup, which will allow you to select the configs u make... I recommend PCDOS over MSDOS, because of its better tools, and better memory management. As for sound, go for an ISA sound card, preferably a SoundBlaster AWE64. You need ISA, as some older games poll for interrupts there... For VGA, just get a pci one, or if u can get , a PCI voodoo3 card... no probs there ask me, I am a DOS-kid

29 March 2005, 14:34	#3
wlcina Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Czech republic Posts: 580	BTW system shock 2 is running on winxp without problems, also If you have strong machine you can use DOSBOX program to run older games in winxp. It is very simple, and if you read readme file you can setup everything : page : http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/

29 March 2005, 16:49	#5
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Malayasia Age: 43 Posts: 657	@wlcina You have System Shock 2 running under XP? I cannot persuade it to run at all - always gives an illegal operation during the CD check. Did you do anything special to make it run? @buckrogers VMDSound (sourceforge.net/projects/vdmsound/) is also nice for running some games that won't work with DOSBox. It lets your DirectX sound card appear as a SoundBlaster 16, AdLib, etc. Mainly useful for early Win95/98 games in my experience.

29 March 2005, 17:53	#6
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,646	THread moved, Hardware forum is for AMIGA hardware subjects.

29 March 2005, 18:04	#7
Mr Creosote Evil Mastermind Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Home Posts: 740	I wrote a little guide about configuring MS-DOS many years ago. Probably helpful, probably not.

29 March 2005, 18:11	#8
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	I cannot believe you have not tried Dosbox, the superb DOS emulator... or have you? http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1

29 March 2005, 18:16	#9
buckrogers Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 107	Yes Fred, am using at the moment in lieu of a retro hardware setup. Don't mind it all. But I'd like to see the real thing first, and then compare. Besides, I am a sucker for hardware, as you are for bread crumbs.

29 March 2005, 19:22	#10
wlcina Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Czech republic Posts: 580	yes, SS2 is running under winxp, try to find ss2 windows 2000 fix (that is executable (cracked I think))

29 March 2005, 19:44	#11
buckrogers Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 107	OK. So I need an ISA card. But do I need a midi daughter card? Should I get a Yamaha DB50XG or Roland. What about a Gravis Ultrasound? What difference does it make?

30 March 2005, 10:56	#12
redblade Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Middle Earth Age: 40 Posts: 2,127	hmm for 80s games, may be best to use DosBox on a new fast PC, or the old 80s games, may spit up errors about ram, need XMS or EMS, or some jargon, like that. Man I had to be the hell geek to get old games running on my 486/66. although demos/shareware struggle to run on my PIV-1.5ghz under XP damnit (warcraft 2), ie VEISA error ?? (some screen bullshit) and under dosbox, the cpu ain't fast enough. Also can't play some Terminator 3d game, I think it's system shock under XP, and cpu is to slow for DOSBOX. grrh. I wish some one could code like a 'killaga' for win xp that redirects screen/audio output to directx for old dos games. oh well i'll just wait another 3 years for a faster cpu to dosbox it :/

30 March 2005, 11:06	#13
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	heheheh Buck..you know i prefer wet hot dog buns

30 March 2005, 11:56	#14
TikTok Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Malayasia Age: 43 Posts: 657	@redblade Try VDMSound - it redirects sound to DirectX and also has some basic VESA options.

30 March 2005, 13:17	#16
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	The best is to get an ISA SB AWE64

30 March 2005, 14:06	#17
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,864	Dosbox gets my vote. Great stuff. If you don't know how to configure DOS, then I suggest you take a look at dosbox without even considering autoexec.bat and config.sys tuning. :-) (Says the man running dual boot DOS7.1 / WinXP on his laptop.. I tuned the himem load areas manually since memmaker or qemm couldn't handle the Latitude C640 without crashing. :-D)

30 March 2005, 14:30	#18
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	jope, you should really try PC-DOS... HIMEM can make UMB available and load DOS there, no need to use EMM386 for that.... that easily gives 615 kb free mem

30 March 2005, 15:38	#19
buckrogers Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Age: 46 Posts: 107	"Then, for about two or three years, Roland synthesizers got popular with the developers. Keep in mind that these are only good for music, though, not for sound effects. After that, General Midi was supported most..." Evil mastermind, during the "Roland years", what was the specific format that was in by games? GS? Since the Roland daughtercards are General Midi, surely it was GM that was supported, and perhaps later Roland's own GS spec?

31 March 2005, 07:22	#20
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	I used mainly a YAMAHA SW20PC back then, some games work with either one Roland spec or another... I remember there where 2 options for Roland, maybe GS and SC , both work, but only one sounds correct, due to instrument mapping...

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