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Old 16 March 2019, 16:02   #41
Jope
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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
I'm sure i'm living in a opposite world



Did the Amiga have compilation disks? Yes



Were there lots of them? Yes



Why did they largely stop? Size of games getting bigger and modem scene being so good at spreading the initial first cracks.



I never denied there was compilation disks, what i'm saying is that the reason why they didn't last as long as the ST compilations was because the games simply got too big to compress down enough because of things like modules being so prevalent.



There... everyone happy now? Everyone stopped getting offended? Good
Not offended. Not even sure why I'm replying. Both of us lost. No hard feelings.
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Old 16 March 2019, 16:59   #42
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Eh wot? Most Amiga terminal SW was supplied with an IBM font or several, so you could call those PC boards and see their block/line art.
Did that really give you the entire PC ANSI character set? I only called a PC BBS once or twice, and even using ibm.font it didn't look quite right.

Nevertheless, Amiga BBSes didn't use PC ANSI art but developed its own distinct ASCII/ANSI style. The same would have been true for ST BBSes.
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Old 16 March 2019, 18:25   #43
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On the Atari ST side it became something of an unofficial competition of who can fit most games on a single disk. I used to dig these compilations as they did save then precious disks. But, in reality you'd just end up having a lot of crappy and outdated games you'd never play anyway, shoehorned to the same disk with the game you wanted play, just for the sport of it.

The futility of these pack menus became quite obvious in the early 90s when the game sizes went up and these compilations had to be spread over two or three disks. At this point you were better off with having the normal disk version that would likely load faster, and without those fugly decompressing stripes running up and down the screen.

Last edited by jizmo; 17 March 2019 at 19:12.
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Old 16 March 2019, 22:31   #44
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In the early days not so many games were using packers as they easily fit on one disk so there was no reason to pack them down. It was easy for crackers to pack down the games and create compilation releases.


It wasnt long before games started getting bigger and spanning more disks. The games developers soon started using packers too and although there were often better ones available than the ones they were using it was only a small percentage increase so it would have been difficult to continue creating these compilation releases.


We did sometimes see amiga releases where the number of disks was reduced from the initial cracks though. Particularly where the original was 1 disk and the initial crack was 2 disks, it was not unusual for someone to put out a single disk release later that was either more efficiently compressed or had some stuff removed.
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Old 18 March 2019, 04:16   #45
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Did that really give you the entire PC ANSI character set? I only called a PC BBS once or twice, and even using ibm.font it didn't look quite right.

Nevertheless, Amiga BBSes didn't use PC ANSI art but developed its own distinct ASCII/ANSI style. The same would have been true for ST BBSes.
The problem wasn't so much the font as it was if you wanted 80 columns, you were stuck with either 4 colors or crappy squished fonts on the ST. I actually got a TT030 because of this, but that was too little too late for sure. At least I got that for like 300 bucks, now they go for crazy money!
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Old 18 March 2019, 20:48   #46
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The problem wasn't so much the font as it was if you wanted 80 columns, you were stuck with either 4 colors or crappy squished fonts on the ST. I actually got a TT030 because of this, but that was too little too late for sure. At least I got that for like 300 bucks, now they go for crazy money!
$300 for a TT030? When was that?. Ah a terminal at 80*50 fonts, It would of been intereting to see some Atari ASCII art then.

Yes I remember the Amiga compilation disks in the 80s, good fun. A lot of those games were not good quality it's amazing what people paid for back in the days.
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Old 18 March 2019, 21:54   #47
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$300 for a TT030? When was that?. Ah a terminal at 80*50 fonts, It would of been intereting to see some Atari ASCII art then.

Yes I remember the Amiga compilation disks in the 80s, good fun. A lot of those games were not good quality it's amazing what people paid for back in the days.
Ha, was probably '98-'99? You'd be lucky to find one for under 800-900 these days. I finally got a VME card for it last year.
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Old 19 March 2019, 01:39   #48
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What was the size of the Atari ST scene like in Spain compared to Amiga?

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Originally Posted by jizmo View Post
On the Atari ST side it became something of an unofficial competition of who can fit most games on a single disk. I used to dig these compilations as they did save then precious disks. But, in reality you'd just end up having a lot of crappy and outdated games you'd never play anyway, shoehorned to the same disk with the game you wanted play, just for the sport of it.
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Old 19 March 2019, 02:23   #49
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What was the size of the Atari ST scene like in Spain compared to Amiga?
If you mean ST scene, like demo-scene or warez-scene, it was practically non-existent in Spain.

Just a group existed called "The Deliverance"
https://demozoo.org/groups/44430/
Thats all.
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Old 20 March 2019, 13:27   #50
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I am not sure, but is this just an Atari vs Commodore group thing. On the Atari 8bit, there were also many disks that had multiple games on them. I'm not sure if the case was the same for the C64 (I only recently obtained an Ultimate64, never owned one back in the day.)
Compilation disks were very common on the C64. You could even put a notch in the disk and flip it, enabling you to put games on the other side as well.

Compilation tapes were even more common. Usually used with a list of counter numbers for each game (but the speeds of the counter could vary between datasettes!)
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Old 20 March 2019, 19:21   #51
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Compilation disks were very common on the C64. You could even put a notch in the disk and flip it, enabling you to put games on the other side as well.

Compilation tapes were even more common. Usually used with a list of counter numbers for each game (but the speeds of the counter could vary between datasettes!)
Ha, the other day someone posted a picture of a disk notcher on facebook, hadn't seen one in years.


We used that trick in the Atari world as well. Fortunately we didn't have to deal with Fast Load cartridges though. I keep forgetting to run the virtual fast load cartridge on the Ultimate64, and it makes things load really slow without it.
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Old 21 March 2019, 00:22   #52
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Just set it as your default cartridge image. No need to run it manually all the time.
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Old 21 March 2019, 12:28   #53
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Compilation disks were very common on the C64. You could even put a notch in the disk and flip it, enabling you to put games on the other side as well.
Yes, this old habit of doing compilations lived on with Atari for very long, and was very much boosted by the fact that the original 520ST was shipped with a single sided 360kb disk drive and with plenty of the software only using a portion of the 720kb disks that soon became the standard it made sense to put multiple of the smaller games on the same DD disk.

Maybe if Amiga had adopted the high density floppy disk when it came out in 1987, we woud've had a similar situation with the games released still on DD to keep them compatible for wider audience, with the cracking groups then releasing similar compilation disks with 2-3 games in them, or one-disking the bigger releases.

Last edited by jizmo; 21 March 2019 at 12:35.
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Old 22 March 2019, 22:49   #54
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So,
Cracktro`s already exist from C64 scene, did they appear on the ST before Amiga?
Heres an interesting one from 1987:

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 23 March 2019, 09:49   #55
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I think the PC people could say the same thing of the Amiga since it didn't have the fancy ANSI graphics of the PC. Or the C64 guys could say the same because everyone else lacked the PETSCII characters..
Actually the Amiga's terminal protocol supported raster-line-level addressing, so you could do almost 1:1 bitmap graphics on the Amiga CLI (i.e. just use the top row of every character in your font, then move to next raster line). This was sadly not used on Amiga BBSs, but extensively used in Amiga text files in startup sequences. So in effect, Amiga "ANSI-style" effects were even better than what you could do on IBM machines. Even better than PETSCII machines (and PETSCII charset was pretty damn good). That line-level addressing made all the difference.
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Old 23 March 2019, 19:42   #56
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Actually the Amiga's terminal protocol supported raster-line-level addressing, so you could do almost 1:1 bitmap graphics on the Amiga CLI (i.e. just use the top row of every character in your font, then move to next raster line). This was sadly not used on Amiga BBSs, but extensively used in Amiga text files in startup sequences. So in effect, Amiga "ANSI-style" effects were even better than what you could do on IBM machines. Even better than PETSCII machines (and PETSCII charset was pretty damn good). That line-level addressing made all the difference.
For sure, I recall very vividly that I was jealous of the sweet fonts my friend had on his A500. Where I was relegated to 4 color lame looking screen on my ST.

But there definitely were some Amiga boards around with software, but I only heard rumors about ST ones floating around. Like after a board got shut down, I'd hear they had some secret ST section that I didn't have access to.

I had to result to the old way with the 8 bits and just randomly run into people who had an ST to get any software, since most of the stores had slowly stopped selling it.
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Old 24 March 2019, 09:44   #57
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If you mean those plotters that took something like 30 seconds to draw a small logo, surely they would've been pretty impractical in BBS use.

PC-like ANSI graphics weren't an option either since Amiga terminals really crawled with anything more than 4 colours, bottlenecking the fastest modems at the time. Plus, anything scrolling, especially the file lists became a real eyesore. Personally, I've always preferred the cool, graffiti-like Amiga topaz ascii logos over the blocky PC ansi so to me this had never been a loss.

As you were charged for every single second connected to a BBS back in the day, you would've always aim to get in, up and dl as fast as you can anyway as some boards even kicked you for stalling.

Of all three, the BBS experience on Atari felt by far the worst, PC somewhere in the middle and Amiga the best thanks to the multitasking that really came in handy while waiting for them transfers to finish.

Last edited by jizmo; 24 March 2019 at 12:17.
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Old 24 March 2019, 13:20   #58
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Amiga the best thanks to the multitasking that really came in handy while waiting for them transfers to finish.

Ncomm, RoxBox, DMS and Filemaster 2 were usually running on mine IIRC
Was there an ST equivalent to AMIExpress?
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Old 24 March 2019, 18:32   #59
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Was there an ST equivalent to AMIExpress?
Sorry, can't say. I only connected to an Atari BBSs a few times before completely leaving platform in 1989 – long time before I even began to ponder what software different boards ran on.

Last edited by jizmo; 24 March 2019 at 18:41.
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Old 24 March 2019, 21:02   #60
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Yeah, I am not sure of BBS software on the ST either, but apparently AmiExpress is on github.
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