EAB/Lemon Super League 2013: Round 11 - Snow Bros

[Lonewolf10]

Originally Posted by who

I find it way too frustrating that everything depends on 1 door right at the end of the game, so I'll happily retire from this round

Agreed, I just had a run that would of netted me a score of around 12.5 million, but because I missed the lvl 48 door I only scored 9.7 million

For those interested I have now confirmed no secret doors on lvls 22 and 45, also every 100,000 points earned gives you an extra life and sending a snowballed enemy into the final boss (even a dead face) scores 5,000 points.

[Lonewolf10]

I have just confirmed that there is no secret door on lvl 46, thanks to the green flask (ghost).

I have also increased my best score, marginally. It could have been a little better, but I dropped about 250k on the first 10 levels and lost a few lives needlessly on the last few levels

12,107,860

[Lonewolf10]

A better run and my last attempt:

12,368,530

[Graham Humphrey]

884,070

[Graham Humphrey]

And it's all over.

Good stuff here, especially impressed with the dedication of Lonewolf and Lifeschool on this one. Nice work.

[Lonewolf10]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Good stuff here, especially impressed with the dedication of Lonewolf and Lifeschool on this one. Nice work.

Thanks

[vagrant]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

And it's all over.

Good stuff here, especially impressed with the dedication of Lonewolf and Lifeschool on this one. Nice work.

Agreed, well done amigos

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Good stuff here, especially impressed with the dedication of Lonewolf and Lifeschool on this one. Nice work.

Absolute Pleasure A superb game and fun times.

@ Lonewolf10:
Wow, you got the full map in the end. Well Done. You also revealed a possoble milking place at the end, but still did not get the top spot. Bad luck. By my calculations you'd have had to have hit the final bosses 114 times to beat Stimraug anyway. He obviously knew how to complete all the levels and get all the doors - which is impressive.

[Stimraug]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Absolute Pleasure A superb game and fun times.

@ Lonewolf10:
Wow, you got the full map in the end. Well Done. You also revealed a possoble milking place at the end, but still did not get the top spot. Bad luck. By my calculations you'd have had to have hit the final bosses 114 times to beat Stimraug anyway. He obviously knew how to complete all the levels and get all the doors - which is impressive.

Thanks, but you praise me too much. I did not get all the doors on my best run. My strength was in getting, I think, very close to all of the lives you can during the whole game (and dying only once), there was a very distinct tactic for this. Also, the other contenders who searched for the doors were helpful, I blatantly abused all the knowledge I found in this thread . Thanks to you guys again, and my apologies for not contributing as much

Also, even though I fear I might gather suspicion from some I wanted to share a fun fact for anyone interested; there is a single infinite points-milking technique in the game, provided the abuser has autofire available. I actually made some math about the maximum possible legitly attainable score marginals. If I disregard the secret rooms I did not gain access to, I'm quite close to that limit level-wise, which I'm proud of. (Lonewolf is very close too, obviously, so gratz ) I was actually waiting for someone to discover this score-cheat and post a screenshot of a score going over that marginal so I could fry him, but apparently people here are very honest

GGs, can't wait for next round.

[diablothe2nd]

Originally Posted by Stimraug

I actually made some math about the maximum possible legitly attainable score marginals

i tried checking the two custom modes from the WHDLoad loader screen. they give infinite lives. so i completed the game just to see what an illegitimate score looked like... it would've been a bit obvious had someone posted it

considering that you could press escape to restart the level without any penalty as mentioned earlier in the thread, it's great that no one appears to have used it

good sportsmanship all round methinks

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by Stimraug

Also, even though I fear I might gather suspicion from some I wanted to share a fun fact for anyone interested; there is a single infinite points-milking technique in the game, provided the abuser has autofire available. I was actually waiting for someone to discover this score-cheat and post a screenshot of a score going over that marginal so I could fry him, but apparently people here are very honest

Autofire is against the rules generally, but in the rules it does state autofire is allowed on games which do not have this feature as a powerup. I guess with autofire I could have racked up the same mega points too, but if I did that on Dogs of War or Disposable Hero there would be no point playing them. I think autofire should be banned outright.

Originally Posted by diablothe2nd

considering that you could press escape to restart the level without any penalty as mentioned earlier in the thread, it's great that no one appears to have used it. Good sportsmanship all round methinks

Yes, although I discovered pressing ESC only works a few times and then the level locks up. This would be classed as 'training' by taking advantage of a bug, so is of course not allowed.

I like to play totally fair because I would not enjoy my final championship positions if I knew I'd cheated the hell out of it. Thats why I cant use autofire either. The only thing I did to gain an advantage is to watch the amiga longplay youtube video; which in this case helped me understand how I might get the vital level 48 door (I have since found better techniques than the ones in the video). And yes I also borrowed heavily from the hints on here.

[Harry]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Autofire is against the rules generally, but in the rules it does state autofire is allowed on games which do not have this feature as a powerup. I guess with autofire I could have racked up the same mega points too, but if I did that on Dogs of War or Disposable Hero there would be no point playing them. I think autofire should be banned outright.

I could not play a game which requires many clicks for an hour without autofire, so i am clearly for an allowed autofire. I also play jump n runs like Gods, Leander or Snow Bros with autofire (but dont abuse it, if it has turned into a snowball, the enemy is done).

[diablothe2nd]

for games like Snow Bros, i don't think autofire makes much difference at all. i can pretty much hammer the button as fast as the autofire on my pad does, for short periods.

consider folks with thumbs not as nimble as they were 10-20 years ago though. we shouldn't penalise the players that can't button mash like the younger or more dexterous of us.

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by diablothe2nd

for games like Snow Bros, i don't think autofire makes much difference at all.

THB I think it makes all the difference because autofire is faster than button mashing. I tried it with my superslick zipstik and although they were pretty similar, the autofire was faster. Snowballing enemies is therefore safer, quicker and easier than someone with sore fingers. Autofire can also milk enemies when they are down; which would be easily open for abuse. Plus, only folks with autofire can make use of it, so all those without it are penalised - and this isnt fair. Those who do it the hard way and have sore fingers are penalised when someone with auto can overtake them easily. Some of these games are about endurance and player stamina. Yes on the final boss of snow bros I was very worn out - but thats the whole point.

Originally Posted by diablothe2nd

we shouldn't penalise the players that can't button mash like the younger or more dexterous of us.

Why? I'm 37, I'm not the oldest or yongest here, I am older than you, but I am more dexterous and can button mash faster than I did when I was 18 thanks to better joystick switches and a faster left handed technique. Surely non of us are so over the hill that we need joystick aids to to be competetive; and if we do then it should be stated in the rules that we should all use those aids on those particular games. You say it doesnt make any difference but I'm sure Lonewolf would have won this particular round if he'd used Auto to accumulate extra score over the levels and Stimraug had not.

edit: thankfully, autofire on Disposable Weirdo is Slower than simply holding down fire on that game, and on Dogs of War auto is a waste of bullets.

[diablothe2nd]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Plus, only folks with autofire can make use of it, so all those without it are penalised

(snip)

I am more dexterous and can button mash faster than I did when I was 18 thanks to better joystick switches and a faster left handed technique

with such varying amounts of tech out there, for example your more superior joystick and reflexes compared to my 15 year old honeybee pad and my arthritis/carpal tunnel you can't possibly treat autofire as having a major advantage in all cases

[Stimraug]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Autofire can also milk enemies when they are down; which would be easily open for abuse.

If you read the earlier parts of the thread you'll see the proof that autofire does not significantly affect the outcome even if you milked every level's last monster and if you do it mid-level the risk of losing even one life outweighs the milking's profit.

Originally Posted by lifeschool

I guess with autofire I could have racked up the same mega points too

...

You say it doesnt make any difference but I'm sure Lonewolf would have won this particular round if he'd used Auto to accumulate extra score over the levels and Stimraug had not.

Where exactly did I even say I used autofire?
Thanks for being a jolly competitor.

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by Stimraug

Where exactly did I even say I used autofire?
Thanks for being a jolly competitor.

Only trying to play fair here. When you said "I fear I might gather suspicion from some" by talking about a "single infinite points-milking technique" this is of course very stoney ground especially with autofire added into the mix. When I first read your post I thought you were admitting you used auto - which is not against the rules - but now I re-read it I see you were saying you calculated the maximum score and was lying in wait to "fry" anyone who abused it. Thats fine. Just wanted to make sure everything was cool. Graham has stated he's not at all concerned about these things and doesnt get involved.

I think its good to get these matters on the table, because if only some players have auto then the others are obviously disadvantaged. Sorry if I pointed any fingers.

[capehorn]

The mods make the rules of the competition, and on the whole they do a great job. The rules state pretty clearly that autofire is allowed unless otherwise stated, so I don't know why this is becoming an issue. If you feel strongly that auto shouldn't be allowed, then PM a mod and make your case, if they disagree then I'm afraid that's the end of it. I don't really see why all this has to be done in the thread.

I don't mean this next paragraph to sound as bad as it might read, but I want to say it anyway because I've been meaning to for a while. I think you sometimes get a bit too close to the line when it comes to helping other players understand what the rules are and seemingly making the rules yourself.

Autofire is against the rules generally, but in the rules it does state autofire is allowed on games which do not have this feature as a powerup. I guess with autofire I could have racked up the same mega points too, but if I did that on Dogs of War or Disposable Hero there would be no point playing them. I think autofire should be banned outright.

Autofire is not against the rules generally. Generally, with only a few exceptions, it is allowed. No-one should feel in the slightest bit dishonest about using autofire, because the rules clearly allow it. Stimraug has already shown that autofire has a low impact on the score and no-one has found any reason to dispute his findings. FWIW I've never used autofire in the comp, and the only time I had any feelings on the issue was when I think we should have been allowed it during Xenon II. But the decision was made and we abided by it.

Considering we played this game on normal mode, seemlingly against the mods wishes because of your earlier posts, I'm surprised that you still seem to be trying to influence the rules towards your own wishes. This isn't the first round I've felt this way, but I can't remember offhand when the other times were.

I want to reiterate what I wrote above, this isn't meant as an attack on you, you obviously do very good things for the competition, from finding working versions and configurations to spotting flaws in the scoring system, sharing and researching information about the games and promoting the comp. I don't believe (and I find it very hard to believe that anyone would) that you would ever cheat or try to use the rules purely to your own advantage, but you are just a player like the rest of us and don't get to make the rules yourself. If you feel so strongly about certain things then maybe you should apply to be a mod for next season's comp if Graham and Biscuit could do with the help?

[john4p]

Autofire is allowed in every game that doesn't have an autofire-powerup. We agreed on this.

Btw., in Dogs of War autofire is a disadvantage because you shoot faster by holding single fire.
In that game autofire only helps in the shop to buy ammo faster.

[diablothe2nd]

thanks for clearing that one up guys, i was under the impression Lifeschool knew something i didn't (even after reading the rules a couple of times). T'was a bit misleading.