cd32 cdda dts ?

[turrican3]

Hi guys,
do you know if the cd32 support dts cd-audio ???
surround audio, 5.1 ??? Perhaps with fmv card ???

[ransom1122]

I dont understand how you can get DTS or 5.1 sound from a CD32 that produces stereo sound?

4 × 8-bit PCM channels
Stereo audio (RCA)

Plug it through your amp and simulate 5.1 I guess.

[spudje]

Well it does support more than 4x8bit PCM audio, namely CD Audio: 2x16bit 44100Hz PCM. But that's only audio tracks from the CD directly routed to the line out, not audio processing in Amiga Chipset.

But obviously no DTS/5.1.

[Cylon]

That DTS would need SACD, if i'm correct.

[turrican3]

I just ask because, i'm doing some iso with game like lotus 2 where you don't have music in game.
Using stero sound is already not bad but i loose the faculty of the amiga (winuae) to play the music in 4 voices because i record the lotus 2 intro music and convert it in cdda but cdda with dts (5.1, dolby) isn't supported by the cd32 and then i lost in quality stereo cdda vs amiga 4 voices...
Could it be possible for winuae to support ogg multi channel or perhaps easier wav multichannel or anything with minimu 4 channels ???
I know this isn't a priority but if it's not too difficult why not ??? And it will be totally transparent for others users who don't want or need it. But perhaps some will be interested to have lotus 2 with 4 voices music in games (cdda dolby) + 4 voices sfx (amiga paula)... I just use the start button of the cdtv to play the cdda in game, it works well and it's possible with aga games too (cdtv chipset + aga,020,2 meg chip ram,rom 3.1).
Toni could it be easy ??? I hope my question isn't too much confuse.
If you need anything to make it possible tell me, i will try to find what's needed.
PS: Is it possible to hack the amiga and create four output on it.
I mean capture the 4 voices paula before the voices was regrouped in stereo and off course 4 speakers is needed then.
it should be a cool hack, the sound is really better with the seperated 4 voices in the emulator (winuae) is it possible ???

[Amiga1992]

You can't.

[Mad-Matt]

In theory, you could record a multichannel wav and encode it into a Dolby ProLogic surround cdda track. It will play back as a normal stereo track on the cd, but if you have a prologic receiver/decoder you will get your surround channels.

[Bprepared]

Originally Posted by Mad-Matt

In theory, you could record a multichannel wav and encode it into a Dolby ProLogic surround cdda track. It will play back as a normal stereo track on the cd, but if you have a prologic receiver/decoder you will get your surround channels.

Dolby ProLogic is a decoding system that takes 4 channel audio matrixed into a 2 channel stereo track and reseperates it out, however it can also cleverly interpret a standard stereo track using filters etc and give you a provide 4 discreat channels ProLogic II decoders further enhance this by being able to extrapolate the sub woofer channel, so if you provide a good quality stereo signal (such as CDDA) you can get a decent surround effect. That why back in the day you could play a "HiFi Stereo" VHS cassette (that was recorded before the days of Dolby Surround reached home libraries) and get glourious surround sound

[alexh]

The DTS-CDDA spec was invented in 1997 and so the extra effects do not work with the CD32 even with an FMV card.

The CD32 has no audio decoder in the CDDA circuitry, just a DAC and so can only play standard CD's.

Originally Posted by turrican3

Using stereo sound is already not bad but I loose the facility of the Amiga (winuae) to play the music in 4 voices

Why?

Originally Posted by turrican3

Because i record the lotus 2 intro music and convert it in cdda and then i lost in quality stereo cdda vs amiga 4 voices...

Why? There should be no audible loss of quality unless you're using bad software.

Originally Posted by turrican3

perhaps some will be interested to have lotus 2 with 4 voices music in games (cdda dolby) + 4 voices sfx (amiga paula)...

I don't think so. CDDA + SFX yes but I don't think there should be any noticable loss in quality when mixing the 4-channel music into 2-channel CDDA.

[pandy71]

IMHO there is no S/PDIF output on CD32/CDTV - not sure if CD decoder chip a.ka. CD DSP (not Akikko) is capable to output S/PDIF - i assume yes as this should be common Sony chip (not know name of the chipset and be honest don't feel like i wish to dismantle my CD32 today) used in CD Audio players so it should have S/PDIF, another topic is firmware on CD DSP. In theory doable but why and what for?

Originally Posted by turrican3

PS: Is it possible to hack the amiga and create four output on it.
I mean capture the 4 voices paula before the voices was regrouped in stereo and off course 4 speakers is needed then.
it should be a cool hack, the sound is really better with the seperated 4 voices in the emulator (winuae) is it possible ???

Not directly - if Paula use some form of DAC interleaving then it will be quite easy to deinterlave samples at the Paula output however seem there are 4 DAC's internally in Paula and there is no interleaving - only one way to provide 4 independent channels are capturing samples and Paula emulation. To capture samples you need to do some piggyback on Paula perhaps using some XMOS or TI PRU's (http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/PRU-ICSS are part for example of Sitara CPU ARM family used by for example Pocket Beagleboard http://beagleboard.org/pocket) or of course FPGA...
Sorry - had idea to deinterleave channels but accordingly to Toni Wilen and Yaqube samples are not interleaved (weird silicone waste IMHO).

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by alexh

The DTS-CDDA spec was invented in 1997 and so the extra effects do not work with the CD32 even with an FMV card.

The CD32 has no audio decoder in the CDDA circuitry, just a DAC and so can only play standard CD's.


Why?


Why? There should be no audible loss of quality unless you're using bad software.


I don't think so. CDDA + SFX yes but I don't think there should be any noticable loss in quality when mixing the 4-channel music into 2-channel CDDA.

Yes i lost the quality because cdda just use 2 speakers when winuae set in 4 channels use 4 of my speakers did you use winuae with a 5.1 peakers system ?? if not you should give it a try, it's really impressive (for me).
In this case it's just normal to have a better sound if you have 4 voice out with 4 speakers vs 4 voices reduced in 2 speakers... If it wasn't why did we created stereo sound or 5.1 speakers ??? We could have stay in mono.
If you have a 5.1 system give it a try winuae set in 4 or 5.1 channels and listen amazing amiga tunes, you can feel the difference.
ps: i understand well that the cd32 wasn't able to do it, it was just an extra possibility, i just asked because perhaps it's easy to do ??? I don't know, perhaps it's easy to support ogg 5.1 sound files, if it's difficult forget about it. There a mountain of more imprtant things to do with winuae.

[Daedalus]

You're not losing quality - that quality was never there (and could never be there) to start with. The CD portion *is* only two channels. WinUAE separating all four of the Amiga's audio channels isn't giving you any extra quality either (unless, perhaps, your speakers are especially poor quality) - it's just separating four independent channels.

What you could do is check the driver suite for your PC's soundcard. Many include gimmicks such as virtual surround that take the differences in a stereo signal and use them to produce a pseudo-surround effect. That might be something that's to your tastes.

[turrican3]

the quality is perhaps not different but like you said i prefer to have 4 different channels, it produce a kind of surround.
But it still difficult for me to beleive that 2 speakers with 4 sources is = to 4 speakers with 4 sources even if the quality the same but the perception is changed and in a good way for me, perhaps it's a perception, perhaps it's just my perception and perhaps others don't hear the difference or don't like it, possible.
Finally it's too much talking for me and when i spoke about quality i didn't mean the technical quality but the perception, the perception is really different if you have a 5.1 speakers like me and each Paula's voices are coming from really different ways.
Thank you guys for the replies... You are perhaps right i should buy better speakers do you have some good advice for 5.1 speakers at a fair price ???
ps:forget about it, if i'm alone to enjoy it. I'm still glad that we have the chance to have a so good emulator for the amiga, it kept alive the spirit during so long (because my a4000 died and there is no way i could buy a new one, too expensive), Toni and all others members keep the good work, it's just amazing. Really too much talk.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by turrican3

the quality is perhaps not different but like you said i prefer to have 4 different channels, it produce a kind of surround.

You do NOT want to have the 4 channels separated physically, the separation will drive you mad, it's bad enough with 2 stereo channels. It will sound like absolute SHIT.

The only reason you like using WinUAE in such a manner is because you are not actually using the real hardware stereo separation. There's no "surround" effect. And there's not "better quality". Your whole point here is moot, and may we repeat: impossible.

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Akira

You do NOT want to have the 4 channels separated physically, the separation will drive you mad, it's bad enough with 2 stereo channels. It will sound like absolute SHIT.

The only reason you like using WinUAE in such a manner is because you are not actually using the real hardware stereo separation. There's no "surround" effect. And there's not "better quality". Your whole point here is moot, and may we repeat: impossible.

You can mix each channel independently for L and R - in fact i really miss PAN setting in Paula for this, especially that gaps around audio registers suggest quite obvious that some not implemented features was planned for Amiga chip set. Paula looks like not entirely finished design...
btw Channel positioning over L R can be really significant improvement - hope it can be implemented in future.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by pandy71

You can mix each channel independently for L and R

How? Absolutely everything that exists out there is hard panned to L or R, unless it's a software mixer (= does not count).

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by Akira

You do NOT want to have the 4 channels separated physically, the separation will drive you mad, it's bad enough with 2 stereo channels. It will sound like absolute SHIT.

The only reason you like using WinUAE in such a manner is because you are not actually using the real hardware stereo separation. There's no "surround" effect. And there's not "better quality". Your whole point here is moot, and may we repeat: impossible.

I don't know why my question turn to this psychotic crisis, but ok. It seems that you answer like a dogmatic guy :" i never tried but i know better because it's like that" and you used we "and may we repeat" instead of I, is there 2 peoples in your mind ?? your answer is too
peremptory, if you never tried by yourself, but you always think you know better, i consider you like a troll now. And for the respect of others EAB members and mods i stop here. It shouldn't go this point you shouldn't write with so much disrespect for others, really a shame ! Sorry eab but enough is enough and it's always the same for a long time now.
ps: AKIRA you should take some lessons to study how interacting with others humans, it seems that you have a big problem with others.
Said that have a nice day.

[Amiga1992]

I said WE as in "everyone in this thread have told you this is not possible and that you are talking a bunch of nonsense". I didn't say I know better. It was all eloquently explained to you (granted, with more patience than I have) by OTHERS in this thread.

Not gonna bother replying again, I should know better indeed. Enjoy your insults, also cannot offend me with your attack.

[turrican3]

winuae really use 4 speakers, i can set my soundcard to a false spatial surround but it's not necessary with winuae the result is the same if it set on or off. this setting artificial surround just operate with pure stereo but winuae is no more pure stereo it's in 4.0 channels if you set it, it isolates the 4 voices of paula and believe me or not the result is really good. But like i saw what i think is just a shit for some of you. Even if you never tried youself, you know better than me. You can't make a complete opinion about it without testing yourself and do like if i was a fool.
Play "turrican 3" 4 channels and we can talk again about it.

winuae 4 channels it's not a real dolby, i know, but everybody around me find it better but they are all surely stupid and have ugly tastes or bad ears.
ps : i tried to put a wav 6 ch in an image attached with a cue , it works with 3/4 of windows soft but winuae play it really slowly and in stereo.
It's just proove me that winuae doesn't just lie down on windows but try to be more and more accurate and it's a good thing.
But enough talking. Let make it goes away and just relax.

[Daedalus]

I'll admit that I've never played Turrican 3 in 4 channel mode (in fact, I've never played Turrican 3 at all...) But I have briefly tried the 4 channel mode in WinUAE and found it to be awful with other games, so very quickly switched back to stereo with the stereo separation softened a little. Which is what sounds best to me (and many others it would seem).

Don't automatically assume that because people have a different opinion to you, that they must not have tried it.