Which programming languages were used on the Amiga historically?

This is a complete newbie question. Which programming languages were commonly used to program software back during the heyday of the Amiga in the 1990's and which ones are used today?

Thank you

[DeafDaz]

BASIC programming language:

AmigaBASIC
AMOS
Blitz BASIC

Assembler programming language:
Devpac
ASM

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by punchy71

This is a complete newbie question. Which programming languages were commonly used to program software back during the heyday of the Amiga in the 1990's and which ones are used today?

Thank you

Primarily it was Assembly Language, with some games written in C and others in the likes of AMOS/Blitz and occasional BASIC, and maybe one or two in Amiga E

[Photon]

Yep, originally the whole OS and all libs with a few exceptions was written entirely in C. Many of the bundled utilities as well. Don't know what compiler the Amiga devs used, but it seems likely it would be a cross-compiler on another computer brand.

Then native assemblers became available, Seka and Argasm were two early ones, I think. As that happened games closer to arcade quality emerged, this would be in 1987. Before this, C was completely dominant with only one or two games written in BASIC.

In 1988 came the explosion of games that tried to use the Amiga as an arcade games platform, and also of course the many make-a-quick-buck conversions (f.ex. Bombjack).

I remember everyone wanted something decent instead of the Microsoft Basic, and a bit later we got it in the form of Hisoft Basic (and also Hisoft Pascal). Devpac appeared and some liked it because Seka had some bugs left and DevPac was less 'pedal to the metal' (and therefore much more lame according to the elite Seka users, of course).

So from 1988 onwards almost all games were written in Assembly, and almost all major utilities written in C. Demos were always coded in Assembly because it was the point of demos to show maximum hardware performance.

I think Blitz Basic and AMOS came late 1991 and this was about when I left Amiga for the worklife, so others know better from then on.

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Photon

So from 1988 onwards almost all games were written in Assembly, and almost all major utilities written in C. Demos were always coded in Assembly because it was the point of demos to show maximum hardware performance.

There were a lot of games written in C after 1988. Many had assembler parts though. The AmigaOS was also 90%+ written in C. Most in SAS/C including AmigaOS 3.9. Dice C was also popular for a time and used for some of AmigaOS. VBCC was horrible at first but got really good fast. Some AmigaOS 3.9 "modules" are in VBCC like the picture.datatype.

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by matthey

There were a lot of games written in C after 1988.

The vast majority of games was coded in 100% assembler. Mostly adventure games (Lucas Arts/Sierra) were coded in C, rest, as said, was 100% assembler.

Originally Posted by Photon

Demos were always coded in Assembly because it was the point of demos to show maximum hardware performance.

Since crack intros are kind of demos for me too I have to correct you here. A certain well known ECA (Electronic Cracking Association) intro has been coded in C. I guess you can figure out which one. =)

[matthey]

Originally Posted by StingRay

The vast majority of games was coded in 100% assembler. Mostly adventure games (Lucas Arts/Sierra) were coded in C, rest, as said, was 100% assembler.

There's plenty of Amiga games that used C...

Cinemaware Games (Wings, It Came From The Desert, Bo Jackson Baseball, TV Sports Basketball), 4D Boxing, Bane of the Cosmic Forge, SSI D&D games, Flashback, Dungeon Master 2 (Skull Keep), DuckTales, F-18 Interceptor, Syndicate, Warlords

Either that or assembly programmers think link a5,#0 is useful ;P.

[Minuous]

Originally Posted by matthey

There's plenty of Amiga games that used C...

Cinemaware Games (Wings, It Came From The Desert, Bo Jackson Baseball, TV Sports Basketball)

Sinbad too. The "Sea of Kernighan" and "Ritchie Reef" are the giveaways ;-)

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by matthey

There's plenty of Amiga games that used C...

I said "vast majority" of games were coded in 100% assemby language, not all. If you count the games programmed in C (all Dino Dini games (Kick Off 1/2, Goal!, Player Manager 1/2 etc.) were programmed in C too) and then do the same for the games coded in assembly you'll see what I mean.

[Wepl]

I would estimate that 10-15% (maybe more) of the games are coded in C.
Nearly all adventures and simulations and most role playing games are done in C.

Most early games are compiled using Aztec-C and can be identified by containing the string 'MANX' as part of the startup code.

[Photon]

Stingray, no, I can't guess. The one with real-time color-cycling maybe

-~-

Anyway.

Still I think it's safe to say that coding in the demoscene is best described as "everything in Assembler" (don't you agree StingRay)? I definitely think that saying high level languages played even a tiny part in demos (like >0.01%, even) would be a hugely over-exaggerated view.

When it comes to games I was referring to commercial releases. I know there were many simpler games coded in C, Microsoft Basic etc. And among the commercial releases it's easy to see that 1985-1986 are Assembler-free, 1987 was the year when established studios made Amiga versions of established game titles (often making them less enjoyable than f.ex. C64, but remember: everyone was still learning this great new machine then), and then at end of 1988 came the great transition: an explosion of independant small game companies capable of out-stripping the established competition, because they had learned the hardware and thanks to Assembler were capable of making much better, enjoyable and polished games than the Amiga had seen before.

Slower adventures games and strategy games didn't need Assembler because of the concept, so they all very well could have been coded in C or Basic.

I think 10-15% of games coded in C is pretty accurate; if we include all PD games in all countries PD clubs that figure would rise I think; some may think some release you never heard of made by a non-game-company doesn't count. But that's no way to appraise usage stats for misc. languages.

Whatever language they used, you can bet that they had fun! I remember it was pure carnal pleasure to just pour your ideas into this machine that could do anything, it seemed.

[Coagulus]

I seem to remember a video titler program (name escapes me) for the Amiga which the review said was written in SAM Basic for the Sam Coupe computer. Was hopeful for a cross-compiler or interpreter at the time cos I had one of those machines!

[fuzzylogic]

Originally Posted by StingRay

A certain well known ECA (Electronic Cracking Association) intro has been coded in C. I guess you can figure out which one. =)

A Backlash cracktro/trainer has been coded in, well dunno if C, I also guess something basic like, here is the link: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=48905

Well at least as far as I remember )

[absence]

Originally Posted by Photon

Yep, originally the whole OS and all libs with a few exceptions was written entirely in C. Many of the bundled utilities as well. Don't know what compiler the Amiga devs used, but it seems likely it would be a cross-compiler on another computer brand.

Wasn't a lot of Amiga OS 1.x written in BCPL, and not rewritten in C until 2.0?

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by Wepl

I would estimate that 10-15% (maybe more) of the games are coded in C.
Nearly all adventures and simulations and most role playing games are done in C.

10-15% is a good guess I think.

Originally Posted by Photon

Stingray, no, I can't guess. The one with real-time color-cycling maybe

Correct. This one, always loved it and still do!

Originally Posted by Photon

Still I think it's safe to say that coding in the demoscene is best described as "everything in Assembler" (don't you agree StingRay)?

Yes, totally! Demos should be coded in 100% assembler, everything else just doesn't feel right.

Originally Posted by Photon

I definitely think that saying high level languages played even a tiny part in demos (like >0.01%, even) would be a hugely over-exaggerated view.

I think so too. Nowadays lots of people use a mix of C/ASM for their (68060) demos but back then it was all 100% asm. As it should be when it comes to demo coding.

Originally Posted by fuzzylogic

A Backlash cracktro/trainer has been coded in, well dunno if C, I also guess something basic like, here is the link: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=48905

Well at least as far as I remember )

That's wrong. What makes you think this was coded in basic or C? I don't remember any Backlash release that was not done in 100% asm. This trainer, even though it looks rather basic (pun intended) is 100% asm too.

[stevsurv]

Looks like some of the early AmigaDOS was written in BCPL.

Some interesting info's about BCPL - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCPL

Bit about B Language -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_(programming_language)

Early AmigaDOS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaDOS

[Toni Wilen]

Nearly all executables on 1.x WB disks are written in BCPL. (Easy to confirm by enabling BCPL support debugging in m68k AROS )

[Ed Cruse]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Nearly all executables on 1.x WB disks are written in BCPL. (Easy to confirm by enabling BCPL support debugging in m68k AROS )

BCPL is definitely different then C, and difficult to deal with, the includes are strange. The pointers are block pointers, ( BP x 4 to get real pointer) it was probably designed for 32 bit main frames.

[fuzzylogic]

Originally Posted by StingRay

That's wrong. What makes you think this was coded in basic or C? I don't remember any Backlash release that was not done in 100% asm. This trainer, even though it looks rather basic (pun intended) is 100% asm too.

Just download the intro and disassemble it. Maybe they are not using a high level language but some kind of strange "support-routines", you can also find messages like "COP:UNGEK.BEFEHL" or "LIBRARY-FEHLER", "nachladen noetig" etc. Looks strange :-)

Also the code partly looks like something produced by a compiler somehow. There is stuff in it which a human would not produce, I can't tell, if you take a look yourself you have to agree ;-) - or another option: it is simply REALLY bad code.

But well, you are right this is just a guess.

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by fuzzylogic

Just download the intro and disassemble it.

I did that before replying.

Originally Posted by fuzzylogic

Also the code partly looks like something produced by a compiler somehow.

Which parts should that be? I only saw somewhat long-winded code but nothing that looks like compiler output. If you give me the offset for the routines you think are made by a compiler I'll check again.