Please open source all the things

[Nosferax]

My take on this subject...

I won't do open source, ever.

I don't want to lose control of the source code of my own design. This doesn't mean I don't want to share. If you ask me how to do such and such I'm more than inclined to write a snippet of code to show you how I did it. But I won't give you the whole shebang for you to "adapt" or copy. I sweated blood and tears to create the program, do your own homework and be creative.

This is my 2¢ + inflation.

[Michael Sykes]

Why should the wheel be invented twice?
If you abandon a program make at least the source public.
Sooo many old tools could be revived/improved.But I guess most old sources got just lost because people had HDD fails or simply forgot about it and sold/replaced the device.

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by Michael Sykes

Why should the wheel be invented twice?
If you abandon a program make at least the source public.
Sooo many old tools could be revived/improved.But I guess most old sources got just lost because people had HDD fails or simply forgot about it and sold/replaced the device.

Because, while that specific application maybe abandoned, the functions that are part of it can still be reused in other application of my own design and as such I still feel the need to keep control of them.

But there is no one holding you back if you want to reverse engineer an old abandoned project and create an update version. But you'll have to create it on your own. You may even release it open source if you feel like it since it will be your very own code.

[BuZz]

Luckily this model isn't popular.

[Michael Sykes]

Exactly...

[Michael Sykes]

Originally Posted by Nosferax

Because, while that specific application maybe abandoned, the functions that are part of it can still be reused in other application of my own design and as such I still feel the need to keep control of them.

Even when it comes to software for a 30 year old system?
I mean I can understand your point but I was thinking about really "abandoned" stuff for a practicaly dead system and a nearly non existing market. Keep your modern Arm,Linux,Windows,OS4,MorphOS or whaterver modern code you have closed for as long as you can still use it in a profitable way.
But old 68k stuff - really? Apps or games no matter what, if the devs still have the original code I bet there are a lot of people out ther that would be happy to see it online. Even Quake or Doom are open source now. And id software is still alive.

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by Michael Sykes

Even when it comes to software for a 30 year old system?
I mean I can understand your point but I was thinking about really "abandoned" stuff for a practicaly dead system and a nearly non existing market. Keep your modern Arm,Linux,Windows,OS4,MorphOS or whaterver modern code you have closed for as long as you can still use it in a profitable way.
But old 68k stuff - really? Apps or games no matter what, if the devs still have the original code I bet there are a lot of people out ther that would be happy to see it online. Even Quake or Doom are open source now. And id software is still alive.

It's still their code and they are the only one to decide what they'll do with it.
Beside functions that specifically access the Amiga proprietary hardware, all the rest of the code can be reused in other project.

It's not about reinventing the wheel, it's about you creating your own set of personalized wheel. If you can't even do that and absolutely need to pinch someone else code then you're in the wrong field of work. The world has enough script kiddy already.

[BuZz]

Originally Posted by Nosferax

If you can't even do that and absolutely need to pinch someone else code then you're in the wrong field of work. The world has enough script kiddy already.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=why+use+open+source

of course, there are people with arguments why not to, and there is even one in the results, but your reasoning doesn't make much sense to me.

using other peoples code, and sharing mine makes good business sense in my area of work, where I may be using off the shelf cms / frameworks. Anything that accelerates development time, and reduces the need for me to re-invent something is good.

When it comes to the Amiga, we would be in a better place now imho if more old software was open. At least it would be possible to pick up where someone left off should one wish to. I have benefited directly from being able to continue on code that was open, such as being able to continue improving XBMC for the original XBOX.

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by BuZz

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=why+use+open+source

of course, there are people with arguments why not to, and there is even one in the results, but your reasoning doesn't make much sense to me.

using other peoples code, and sharing mine makes good business sense in my area of work, where I may be using off the shelf cms / frameworks. Anything that accelerates development time, and reduces the need for me to re-invent something is good.

When it comes to the Amiga, we would be in a better place now imho if more old software was open. At least it would be possible to pick up where someone left off should one wish to. I have benefited directly from being able to continue on code that was open, such as being able to continue improving XBMC for the original XBOX.

Well, to each is own. I said my piece, now I retire from this thread.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by BuZz

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=why+use+open+source

"I can't be assed to state a counter-argument, so here's a link to millions of search results from all across the Internet! Go do my research for me so I can prove you wrong!"

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

"i can't be assed to state a counter-argument, so here's a link to millions of search results from all across the internet! Go do my research for me so i can prove you wrong!"

What he said ^

[BuZz]

I think you will find I already posted some of my own arguments after the link - but I realise you are just trying to be argumentative. My point was that I've never seen a counter-argument as the user stated and that there are a lot of articles on pros/cons that make a lot more sense and are worth a read.

Perhaps you would like to directly address some of the points I made?

[BuZz]

Of course as already said - everyone is free to do as they want with their own code - whether I think their reasons make sense or not. Thankfully many devs use a open source licence, which allows their software to be ported across many platforms and allows people to directly contribute back. That's the environment I like to work in computing wise. Open source benefits my business, and the software development I do as a hobby.

[Korodny]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

"I can't be assed to state a counter-argument, so here's a link to millions of search results from all across the Internet! Go do my research for me so I can prove you wrong!"

If you insist on taking part in this discussion, would it be asking too much that you try to emulate adult behaviour? Buzz did list several arguments pro open source software, which you completely ignored so you could dump a(nother) cheap and useless joke into this thread.

Originally Posted by Nosferax

It's not about reinventing the wheel, it's about you creating your own set of personalized wheel. If you can't even do that and absolutely need to pinch someone else code then you're in the wrong field of work. The world has enough script kiddy already.

Nobody who had any training in software development would ever make a statement like that. Actually, trained developers would probably tell you you're suffering from not-invented-here syndrome.

You don't sound like you should be calling other people "script kiddies".

I don't want to lose control of the source code of my own design.

Sharing doesn't mean loosing control, it just means other people can use your code for their projects. You still have complete control over your own projects, of course.

You'd loose (sole) ownership, of course. And the competitive advantage or whatever you want to call it. If you care about things like that - I'm happy for you. But in your case, we're talking 25 year old assembler code most likely written by an untrained teenager - maybe you should perform a reality check before implying open source advocates are "trying to pinch your code".

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by Korodny

If you insist on taking part in this discussion, would it be asking too much that you try to emulate adult behaviour? Buzz did list several arguments pro open source software, which you completely ignored so you could dump a(nother) cheap and useless joke into this thread.


Nobody who had any training in software development would ever make a statement like that. Actually, trained developers would probably tell you you're suffering from not-invented-here syndrome.

You don't sound like you should be calling other people "script kiddies".


Sharing doesn't mean loosing control, it just means other people can use your code for their projects. You still have complete control over your own projects, of course.

You'd loose (sole) ownership, of course. And the competitive advantage or whatever you want to call it. If you care about things like that - I'm happy for you. But in your case, we're talking 25 year old assembler code most likely written by an untrained teenager - maybe you should perform a reality check before implying open source advocates are "trying to pinch your code".

There is a difference in "in-house" sharing of code and being a script kiddy.
And please, get off your high horse before passing judgment on other. In my case I'm talking about present day assembler code that I presently write and for your information I'm 49 years old not a teenager.

And beside, yes I wan't to keep what you call the "competitive advantage". Even if it doesn't bring any financial benefit. Just like a composer doesn't give part of is symphony for some other schmuck to use in is own creation and reap the glory. Same goes for a writer.

If you want to do it yourself, go ahead, you don't need anybody opinion or approval. But keep in mind that the same goes for my position and it would be the noble thing for you to keep that in mind and to respect it.

Nowhere did I say the open source shouldn't exist. All I've done is post my own personal position about it.

[Samurai_Crow]

I like to be able to reuse code. If it's closed source but documented as a shared library, that's almost as good as having the source. Even obfuscated source can be reused if the APIs are documented. What I am trying to say is open source is not the only option.

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

I like to be able to reuse code. If it's closed source but documented as a shared library, that's almost as good as having the source. Even obfuscated source can be reused if the APIs are documented. What I am trying to say is open source is not the only option.

Exactly

[wXR]

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

I like to be able to reuse code. If it's closed source but documented as a shared library, that's almost as good as having the source. Even obfuscated source can be reused if the APIs are documented. What I am trying to say is open source is not the only option.

How about when that library is binary incompatible with a new system, or in the Amiga's case, conflicts with popular system libraries, etc?

There is no substitute for the real thing.

[BuZz]

Originally Posted by Nosferax

And please, get off your high horse before passing judgment on other. In my case I'm talking about present day assembler code that I presently write and for your information I'm 49 years old not a teenager.

he wasn't calling you a teenager. he was saying that in your case (the case you were making about old amiga code before ), is likely written by teenagers - because a lot of us were teenagers back then

(he said "we're talking 25 year old assembler code most likely written by an untrained teenager")

[BuZz]

regarding close source libraries, there are plenty of cases where there are bugs in Amiga libraries that cannot be fixed without hacking or reverse engineering. There was an issue I had with LHA once that I wanted to look into, and despite the source being in the hands of a few, I was unable to get hold of a copy.

as wXR said too, you can have issues with binary incompatibility too - I've had that on linux where one developer decided to only distribute binaries. suffice to say, that code no longer works.