Duel05: Lotus II vs JaguarXJ220

[JudasEZT]

This last duel needs some considerations.

Both are maybe the two best arcade racing games on Amiga. The reason to confront them in duel is because they had, at least for a period, a sense of rivality similar to exitent between Sensible Soccer games with DinoDini's games.

I chose to present Lotus II , because I guess it was the one with more impact and doesnt feel like a travesty like Lotus III.

Vote!!

[Paul_s]

Lotus II.

I think a beter duel would be Lamborghini American Challenge/Crazy Cars III vs. Lotus II.... Now that would be hard to choose although I do have a soft spot for Lotus II.

[JudasEZT]

Crazy Cars III is veeery good.. and I like very much its graphics. Its a pity that Moonshine Racers didnt played that good.

[Predseda]

My point of view:

Jaguar is better, although has a bit worse graphics. You can easily identify each car on the track and even its driver (each has his own abilities and skills and so if you see Porsche 959 in lead, you know it must be Dyson etc). Also there is the fuelling and you have to repair your vehicle/s and save money for world travelling, which means you must manage your world tour depending on funds. I also appreciate mouse controls. And beside this, Jaguar has brutal engine sound.

Lotus has better graphics, looks more smooth, but has anonymous and totally dumb computer drivers and no any additional value for me. But it can be played on two Amigas and it is a good party game then. I will always prefer Jag though.

[FOL]

Wheres the love them both option.

Agree, CCIII is cool too.
My favs, have to be all the lotus's, Jaguar, CCIII and all the Super Cars.

I think the GFX on both lotus and jaguar are good and the music is awesome.
Hate to say it, but I enjoyed Moonshine racers.

[Bamiga2002]

Originally Posted by FOL

I think the GFX on both lotus and jaguar are good and the music is awesome. Hate to say it, but I enjoyed Moonshine racers.

I like Moonshine Racers! Played it yesterday . And this is a hard vote, but I chose Jaguar...it has more longevity in its gameplay.

[Rob 1]

I voted Lotus mainly because I think XJ220 is a bit of a copy but with a few extras.

If we were voting for the Cars the XJ200 would get my vote all day every day.

[frikilokooo]

I think there is a key point in this duel,it is the realism.Jaguar is not realistic about car physics at high speed,the car doesn't have any centrifugal force and turns freely,the driving becomes unrealistic.I'm not talking about that this is not a simulator but even an arcade game must have some realism in the gameplay.This debunks all the excellent job in graphics and sound above of Lotus II.

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by frikilokooo

I think there is a key point in this duel,it is the realism.Jaguar is not realistic about car physics at high speed,the car doesn't have any centrifugal force and turns freely,the driving becomes unrealistic.I'm not talking about that this is not a simulator but even an arcade game must have some realism in the gameplay.This debunks all the excellent job in graphics and sound above of Lotus II.

On the other hand - do the other lotuses, pendling from left to right and vice versa, realistic? Maybe yes, according what I see daily on the local roads

[Marcuz]

Where's Lotus I option?
bah, I'll go with Lotus II, but with Jaguar there, the second episode is a close call.
The first episode, on the other hand, beats them both for me.

[Gordon]

lotus II becuase i find the handling of the cars alot more enjoyable and rewarding.

[Codetapper]

I also think the first Lotus was the best in terms of gameplay, if it had the graphics (and speech) from Lotus 2 it'd really be the bees knees!

But I think Lotus 2 is far better than Jaguar XJ220 in any case. And I don't know what others see in the graphics but I think Lotus 2 has much nicer graphics!

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by Codetapper

I also think the first Lotus was the best in terms of gameplay, if it had the graphics (and speech) from Lotus 2 it'd really be the bees knees!

But I think Lotus 2 is far better than Jaguar XJ220 in any case. And I don't know what others see in the graphics but I think Lotus 2 has much nicer graphics!

Exactly! I love the colors and gameplay of Lotus I while Jaguar and Lotus II share to me almost the same rewarding but not great gameplay, with Lotus II having gorgeous graphics whereas Jaguar has well done, coherent but dull ones.

Lotus I is not shabby on graphics either, they are coherent, vivid and colorful. Simply there was half screen wasted when in single player.

All in all, I loved the three games, but my preference would go with the first.

[Predseda]

If only the graphic matters, then yes - Lotus is far better

[fishyfish]

Lotus 2 all the way.
Jaguar was ok-ish, but was pretty rough around the edges.
It never quite achieved what it set out to do, and is pretty sloppy in places for even trying. Didnt even equal Lotus, let alone surpass it.
Framerates are inconsistant in Jaguar 2, which is irritating.

To Jaguars credit it does try a few different things, but they should have worried about getting the basic engine down properly before adding things.

[lordofchaos]

Cool thread, don't have much to add to this discussion as most points seem to have been made. I prefer the Jaguar title music over Lotus II's, not to say the Lotus II soundtrack isn't great because it is but Iveson is the master and Jaguar has one of the most catchiest bass riffs ever!! Oh and yes I thnk Lotus II has the clear edge in most departments

[JudasEZT]

Originally Posted by Marcuz

Where's Lotus I option?
bah, I'll go with Lotus II, but with Jaguar there, the second episode is a close call.
The first episode, on the other hand, beats them both for me.

I was tempted to make Lotus I, II & III vs JaguarXJ220.. just it looked like a not fair duel. Although spiritually the duel feels exactly like that.. lotus games vs jaguar..

do we have consensus in that LotusIII was a travesty ??

[fishyfish]

Travesty, nah, not at all.
Still played ok. Was still Lotus. It just felt a bit directionless and unfocused.

Id still go Lotus3 over Jaguar any day of the week.
Not that I hated Jaguar. It just only felt 3/4 finished, and those damn inconsistant framerates are very off putting. Find a barren area to drive and at 100kmph its faster than a heavily decorated area when going at 200kmph. That's bad enough on its own, but the transition from dense area to not very dense area (or the reverse) is even worse.

[john4p]

On real Amigas Lotus 3 was choppy, but on WinUAE with JIT-emulation it runs smooth as silk which makes it a lot better. The track layout in Lotus 2 is slightly better, but while Lotus 2 only has 8 tracks Lotus 3 has billions (just type in random words in the custom cup mode and you have completely new tracks every time you play).

Only its future tracks with those lasers are terrible gameplaywise.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by JudasEZT

I was tempted to make Lotus I, II & III vs JaguarXJ220.. just it looked like a not fair duel. Although spiritually the duel feels exactly like that.. lotus games vs jaguar..

Nah, I was bitching
Of course, of the three Lotus games, the second is the more... invested? designed? one, Just I prefer the first one because it was the first game ever I played on Amiga and so colorful and flamboyant (30 different tracks plus practice! Pit stop strategy!) that it was like a wham! to me as an encounter with computer gaming (previously I had only an Hanimex with Pong!)

So, it's fair, Lotus II vs Jaguar.

But yeah, Lotus III was, imho, death for playability: more doesn't mean better. It was an huge let down at the time, Jaguar was far better than that, for me.

Actually, the only two things I did not liked about Jaguar are the seemingly wrong perspective of the car that could be seen every time you steer (you can see stuff like that in many other Core' games, a curious object shaping, like every object is separated from environment... I cannot explain it better), and its steep difficulty, taking in consideration the damage repairing.
But it was a cool game nevertheless.