Amiga movies possible on stock OCS machine?

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

It worked nicely with the space.avi !

Now I will try with another video file, hope it will be fine.?

Cool now I want a Movie trailer uploaded to YouTube

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

@NovaCoder: Could it be the original video format ?

Does your film play correctly in VirtualDub? Does it work with the Space.MPEG?

[Jack Burton]

Yesterday I spent almost my afternoon making experiments with avi4hv and the fact is that this soft is quite amazing !
However, some mysteries remain, since it does not always work.

Until now I had to convert almost all video files (free trailers downloaded on internet trailers sites) to MPEG 1. When converted to MPEG avi4hv is happy and works fine ! But the drewback is that MPEG format videos are quite altered and some nasty squares appear here and there quite often due to MPEG 1 compression algorithm not being that efficient I guess.

I tried many different settings with the freeware video converter program called "SUPER" as some trailers I downloaded were mov, divx, xvid, etc. and I had only one who worked perfectly, an avi file whose format was MPEG4-Visual and codec was XVID. Many trailers being in QT mov, I tweaked SUPER in every possible ways to convert mov (H264) to Divx/Divx5, Xvid, Mpeg4... and none of them worked except when converted to Mpeg1 (poor image quality).

So I will continue some experiments, but with the another freeware video converter tool "MEDIACODER". We will see...

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Cool now I want a Movie trailer uploaded to YouTube

I could upload one on youtube, but for now the quality is less than average in comparison with Weird Science. My nicest trailer still have too much Mpeg-1 artifacts. But be sure that once I will be able to solve this problem I will upload some nice trailers, I have some in mind !

Does your film play correctly in VirtualDub? Does it work with the Space.MPEG?

Yes, try with MPEG, it should work. I followed exactly Boo Boo's steps and it worked, actually I think the real problem should be the video format used (despite the fact that some xvid avi can work though, but hmm in a very low ratio ~1/15).

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

Until now I had to convert almost all video files (free trailers downloaded on internet trailers sites) to MPEG 1. When converted to MPEG avi4hv is happy and works fine !

That is really strange, because you are dealing here with uncompressed video saved from VirtualDub. Of course the quality of the original encode impacts on the quality of the uncompressed video. H264 originals would be better then Xvid and Xvid would be better than Mpeg1 and so on.

The source outputed from VirtualDub as long is 16-bit uncompressed and it is within the parameters required, for avi4hv, it will careless if it comes from whatever source.

I've test encoded from H264 sources and xvid sources without any problem whatsoever. The only mpeg1 i've used was the Space sample, and there was no problem also.

That is strange you having so much problems with the encode, unless something in your system is conflicting with the process.

[Retro1234]

Hay Jack yes I even had the 1k problem yesterday once my video was converted to MPEG1 it worked Maybe increasing the bitrate might help? TMPGEnc normaly do some good software.

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by xpect

That is really strange, because you are dealing here with uncompressed video saved from VirtualDub. Of course the quality of the original encode impacts on the quality of the uncompressed video. H264 originals would be better then Xvid and Xvid would be better than Mpeg1 and so on.

The source outputed from VirtualDub as long is 16-bit uncompressed and it is within the parameters required, for avi4hv, it will careless if it comes from whatever source.

I've test encoded from H264 sources and xvid sources without any problem whatsoever. The only mpeg1 i've used was the Space sample, and there was no problem also.

That is strange you having so much problems with the encode, unless something in your system is conflicting with the process.

Mmm yes that's quite strange. And you are right, It's more like if VirtualDub didn't convert correctly other video format. And conflicts would make sense since I have installed many video converter tools in the past because my old webcam had its own video format, then my digital camera video are M-JPEG+PCM format, I had to make some conversion to try the Amiga MPEG player RiVA (I'm registered to this excellent soft aswell) and so on. So I might try on another pc.

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Hay Jack yes I even had the 1k problem yesterday once my video was converted to MPEG1 it worked Maybe increasing the bitrate might help? TMPGEnc normaly do some good software.

Okay, I will make a try with an increased bitrate. Maybe doubling it ?

[Retro1234]

The Wierd Science Clip I converted to VCD standard I think thats 1150KBit.
Yes it doesnt make much sense once its run through VirtualDub it should work but what format the source is does seem make a difference.

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

The Wierd Science Clip I converted to VCD standard I think thats 1150KBit.
Yes it doesnt make much sense once its run through VirtualDub it should work but what format the source is does seem make a difference.

I made a couple of tests on another pc and it does not change in any way.
However MPEG1 setting changes seems to give better results since ugly MPEG artefacs are almost invisible now (thanks Boo Boo ). So I keep it as it works well with this format.

Anyway, I've a question about avi4hv conversions. Since my very first attempt at video conversion, all video files I converted with avi4hv are systematically dithered. It's not a VirtualDub effect because the output video isn't dithered, so I think avi4hv must be adding some sort of dithering. That's a bit annoying because as a result the videos are quite noisy. I didn't see such effects with DamageX example videos (Shiki.hv, Zoppen.hv, Koi.hv), Boo Boo's Weird Science looks quite clean as well.

So, maybe there are some DOS arguments to add to avi4hv before running the conversion ?

[Jack Burton]

Here are some screen captures I made from some conversions I did of : 20th century Fox opening, Pirates of Caribbeans and Underworld, it might give an idea of what I get (systematic dithering).

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

it might give an idea of what I get (systematic dithering).

I also have that dithering, which as you say, puts more noise on the final video.

I've tried hamp.run and avi4hv arguments but it seems to have none(?).

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by xpect

I also have that dithering, which as you say, puts more noise on the final video.

I've tried hamp.run and avi4hv arguments but it seems to have none(?).

Okay, I was afraid to be the only one with that.

Here are some other screen captures I made from DamageX (avi4hv author) video, and as one can see, there are no dithering, overall image is very clear with many colors and the HAM6 fringing is almost unoticeable. I wonder how he could manage to get rid of dithering (I would love to have such quality in my videos !).

[Retro1234]

Did you see yaqubed Transformers Clip -Looks very good
[ Show youtube player ]

I guess a good source clip helps - The nature of HAM is always going to have dithering also theres a clip that realy is full screen is this because its being played on a NTSC machine?
[ Show youtube player ]

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Did you see yaqubed Transformers Clip -Looks very good

Yes I did and has no dithering. The quality is really good.

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

I guess a good source clip helps - The nature of HAM is always going to have dithering also theres a clip that realy is full screen is this because its being played on a NTSC machine?

Not dithering, but frigging.

I would not say full screen but if it runs at 320x200 NTSC resolution, of course will fill more the screen area than a PAL resolution, that is playing 320x216 at most in 256 pixels.

[yaqube]

Originally Posted by xpect

Yes I did and has no dithering. The quality is really good.

The original clip is dithered but encoding it to MPEG-4 and uploading to YouTube filters the dithering out.

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by yaqube

The original clip is dithered but encoding it to MPEG-4 and uploading to YouTube filters the dithering out.

Ok that explains it. Thank's yaqube!

[Jack Burton]

@Yaqube: Wow, your video looks quite amazing !

Anyway, if you look closely to the screenshots of DamageX video (those with the asian girl) we can't see any dithering, just try it on your Amiga, here is the link : http://www.hyakushiki.net/junk/shiki.lzh

[NovaCoder]

Ok I've now finally got this working my using MPEG files (for some reason it has trouble when the original was an AVI?). I'm also seeing poor quality in my movies (dithering) although that might be something to do with WinUAE (can't try it on my real Amiga at the moment).

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

Anyway, if you look closely to the screenshots of DamageX video (those with the asian girl) we can't see any dithering,

Indeed no dithering at all. I really wonder how these videos were made. Maybe a previous version of the converter didn't put dithering in the video. Or there are undocumented arguments on the encoder that we don't know?

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

Ok I've now finally got this working my using MPEG files (for some reason it has trouble when the original was an AVI?). I'm also seeing poor quality in my movies (dithering) although that might be something to do with WinUAE (can't try it on my real Amiga at the moment).

I'm only trying also on WinUAE, but i doubt it makes any difference i think. Only comparing the same encode in a real Amiga we can know. I'm unable to do that.

Again I'm puzzled about the difficulties in encoding AVI files, i have yet to have a problem on that matter. I tried like some 5 or 6 avi files without problems. What version of VirtuaDub do you use? I'm using 1.9.8 build 32706 on Win XP SP3.

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

Ok I've now finally got this working my using MPEG files (for some reason it has trouble when the original was an AVI?). I'm also seeing poor quality in my movies (dithering) although that might be something to do with WinUAE (can't try it on my real Amiga at the moment).

On my A1200 the movie quality was the same than on WinUAE.

Originally Posted by xpect

Indeed no dithering at all. I really wonder how these videos were made. Maybe a previous version of the converter didn't put dithering in the video. Or there are undocumented arguments on the encoder that we don't know?

That's an interesting assumption since several versions were made. Maybe the auto-dithering had been implemented with a video quality improvment in mind by the author, it would have been useful if it had been hires, but in 320x it appears more like noise than anything else.

Are the old versions of avihv available somewhere ?
And maybe we should try to simply ask DamageX how did he manage to have such a quality with his example movies (no dithering at all).

I'm only trying also on WinUAE, but i doubt it makes any difference i think. Only comparing the same encode in a real Amiga we can know. I'm unable to do that.

There is no difference. On A1200 it's the same than on WinUAE.

Again I'm puzzled about the difficulties in encoding AVI files, i have yet to have a problem on that matter. I tried like some 5 or 6 avi files without problems. What version of VirtuaDub do you use? I'm using 1.9.8 build 32706 on Win XP SP3.

AVI is very generic, which compression format were used to encode your AVI files ? My tests with AVI files (Dx50, XViD, MPG4...) all failed except one (???) which format was MPG4, but other AVI files encoded with MPG4 also failed.

Here VirtualDub version is 1.9.7 build 32661, I should update it !

[Retro1234]

Id love to see a conversion of Mad Dog Mccree using this

Heres a link to an older version -let me know if its any different.

Originally Posted by hit

can anyone reupload the full package?
i found the converter from this post: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=231753&postcount=2 - this is version 1.0. and a player called hamnew. missing hamp.run (maybe this is a newer one?).

Originally Posted by xpect

I would not say full screen but if it runs at 320x200 NTSC resolution, of course will fill more the screen area than a PAL resolution, that is playing 320x216 at most in 256 pixels.

Shame theres no argument for for NTSC playback.

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

AVI is very generic, which compression format were used to encode your AVI files ? My tests with AVI files (Dx50, XViD, MPG4...) all failed except one (???) which format was MPG4, but other AVI files encoded with MPG4 also failed.

Here VirtualDub version is 1.9.7 build 32661, I should update it !

AVI is just a container, as is MP4, MKV, OGM and so on. The type of compression is what defines the type of video decoder needed. As far as AVI4HV goes, the original video beeing h263 (divx,xvid and others), h264 (x264, and many commercial others) or <put your preferred format codec here> is not important. Only VirtualDub (or other tool) has to deal with those types of different supported encoding formats and has to be able to load the respective type of supported containers. This way VirtualDub can process and convert to the needed 16-bit 320pixels uncompressed AVI format. Being AVI the container and the 16-bit uncompressed data the format.
So for AVI4HV the only important format is the last one which is the only supported. In what format the videos are encoded is only relevant for the processing tool, in this case VirtualDub. I hope this will be more clear to you.

Maybe the culprit on your side could be indeed the version of VirtualDub, maybe is outputting a wrong 16-bit uncompressed data or the AVI RIFF header can't be 100% understood by avi4hv.

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Heres a link to an older version -let me know if its any different.

Those versions (avi3hv, avi2hv) need a 100% compatible DOS environment and don't work on the emulated XP CMD.

Maybe i'll assemble a WIN98SE virtual machine and try from there if I have time and patience.