English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Off Topic > OT - Technical

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 08 August 2019, 07:57   #1
LongLifeA1200
Registered User

LongLifeA1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amiga Kingdom
Posts: 168
Workbench 3.1 for PCs

Is it too much to ask for a bare-bones operating system that is as close to Workbench 3.1 as possible on PC?

I suppose so.

I'm tired of waiting so I guess it's upon myself to make one.

I'm sure I can find an old PC or laptop that has at least 14mhz CPU speed and 2.5 megabytes of memory. WHY are PCs and their Operating Systems such bloated pieces of crap? {rhetorical question}
LongLifeA1200 is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 09:42   #2
Shoonay
Global Caturator
Shoonay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Porando
Posts: 6,044
Yeah, remember back when you just couldn't play a game that required 2MB of Chip and you had only 1MB? Those were the good old days.
Or resetting after using every single program/game usage to use/play another program/game, man, I do miss that. {sarcastic reply}
Shoonay is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 11:21   #3
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,204
A PC with those specs is unlikely to have a graphical capability anywhere near an Amiga 1200. If it has colour at all, it will likely be CGA (so 16 colours and fixed palette). Audio capabilities will be in a similar boat. Sounds like a pretty horrible setup, not to mention rare. And don't forget you'll need a bit more RAM too so you can load drivers for things like mice, sound cards etc.

If you really want that, I'm sure you can find old versions of Windows 1 knocking around. There are also variations of the GEM desktop for DOS that you could check out if your PC has the spec for it.

If you actually want an Amiga-like experience, there's the obvious AROS, which is a very similar experience to 3.1. Find yourself a free PC somewhere and run AROS. Job done.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 11:57   #4
Dunny
Registered User

Dunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 1,312
While lazy coders are producing bloated code, you'd be surprised how much actual code is needed to run PC hardware - vastly improved graphical resolutions and colour depth increases storage sizes exponentially for storing graphics, running 64bit code requires larger binary sizes in most cases. Sound is no longer 8bit, 8khz so storage for sound effects is also affected.

Even something as simple as drawing a font is a LOT more complex now than it was due to TTF everywhere, sub-pixel precision and hinting etc.

And let's not forget that there is waaaay more protection and caution in operating systems these days - the Amiga was pretty much free to allow apps to do what they want to eachother whereas now we need gatekeeping code in the OS to prevent that sort of thing.

And modern OS's have a lot more features even in their file management than AmigaOS ever had.

But yes, they are a tad bloated, but not as much as you think.


Edit: And yes, there's AROS - it's basically 3.1 rewritten from the ground up for modern hardware. And where AmigaOS3.1 came on four or five floppies totalling about 3-4MB in size, the base install ISO for AROS (without contrib) is 135MB.
Dunny is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 12:18   #5
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
A PC with those specs is unlikely to have a graphical capability anywhere near an Amiga 1200. If it has colour at all, it will likely be CGA (so 16 colours and fixed palette). Audio capabilities will be in a similar boat. Sounds like a pretty horrible setup, not to mention rare.
I'm not sure I agree with this statement. A 386SX-16 with a decent amount of RAM sounds like it would fit the requirements.

VGA graphics, and obviously you could easily add a Soundblaster, GUS, or whatever soundcard you wanted.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 12:42   #6
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 4,204
Is 2.5MB a decent amount of RAM? Yeah, I guess almost any PC can be expanded (and that conversation has been had elsewhere), but then why not go for a cheaper, far more powerful one that'll run AROS like greased lightning and can probably be found in a skip.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 12:51   #7
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,353
What would be the Memory not HD requirements for Aros totally stripped down to WB 3.0 like?
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 14:14   #8
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Is 2.5MB a decent amount of RAM?
For a 386, yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus
Yeah, I guess almost any PC can be expanded (and that conversation has been had elsewhere), but then why not go for a cheaper, far more powerful one that'll run AROS like greased lightning and can probably be found in a skip.
Well yeah, exactly. I understand wanting an old PC for old DOS games, but otherwise they're not much value.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 14:39   #9
Dunny
Registered User

Dunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 1,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
What would be the Memory not HD requirements for Aros totally stripped down to WB 3.0 like?
That's virtually impossible, AFAIK - it contains everything such as its own MUI-like system for the UI and many libs for modern hardware. You could do it, but that would be quite a job and you'd really need to understand how it works (it's very similar to AmigaOS, fortunately) before you do.

But you should be able to get something to run on a Pentium with 256MB RAM - though preferably more.
Dunny is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 15:18   #10
Anubis
Maj. Voodoo

Anubis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raking Woods...
Age: 47
Posts: 2,748
Only question - what for?

You can't run any Amiga games and will be limited to small amount of WB programs, stuff you can do with Amithlon or already mentioned Aros.

There are few projects that allows you to recreate Amiga and desktop and I don't see issues using modern computers (or mini cmputers) for that. If you already get 486 with few megs of memory, probably better to use it as DOS machine, as long as you have room to place it somewhere.

I still prefer emulation.
Anubis is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 15:30   #11
Retro1234
Boo

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 5150
Posts: 4,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
That's virtually impossible, AFAIK - it contains everything such as its own MUI-like system for the UI and many libs for modern hardware. You could do it, but that would be quite a job and you'd really need to understand how it works (it's very similar to AmigaOS, fortunately) before you do.

But you should be able to get something to run on a Pentium with 256MB RAM - though preferably more.
When I say stripped out I mean all the funky icon and theme junk that comes as standard making it look as far from WB 3.0 as it should.
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 16:02   #12
Dunny
Registered User

Dunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 1,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
When I say stripped out I mean all the funky icon and theme junk that comes as standard making it look as far from WB 3.0 as it should.
Oh, I'm with you on that one. The standard UI in AROS is absolutely atrocious. Apparently you can use Amiga icons with AROS so you'd likely have to go through and replace them all yourself. As for the themes, that's built-in so is part of the cruft.

And yes, the default theme looks bloody awful.

I run an OS3 desktop on my laptop, and along with the bonus of being able to run Amiga games and apps directly, it looks light years better than AROS does.
Dunny is offline  
Old 08 August 2019, 19:33   #13
gimbal
cheeky scoundrel
gimbal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands
Age: 38
Posts: 3,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
Is it too much to ask for a bare-bones operating system that is as close to Workbench 3.1 as possible on PC?
Eh no, several Linux distros have you covered actually. Archbang, Tiny Core Linux...
gimbal is offline  
Old 09 August 2019, 21:44   #14
Zak
ZapĀ“em

Zak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 386
I had an 80286 with 14mhz processor (worked as quick as standard 16 mhz) and EGA graphics and 1mb total memory (HiMem). I used Windows 3.1 with it and it wasn't even too bad.
Zak is offline  
Old 11 August 2019, 03:23   #15
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,334
Yep, with smartdrive (or similar software), even a 286 could run 3.1 quite well.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 11 August 2019, 12:36   #16
005AGIMA
Re-loading. Please wait.

005AGIMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Perth, Australia & England
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
Is it too much to ask for a bare-bones operating system that is as close to Workbench 3.1 as possible on PC?

I suppose so.

I'm tired of waiting so I guess it's upon myself to make one.

I'm sure I can find an old PC or laptop that has at least 14mhz CPU speed and 2.5 megabytes of memory. WHY are PCs and their Operating Systems such bloated pieces of crap? {rhetorical question}
Isn't that what AROS is?

EDIT: My bad.,....AROS is already being discussed here.

But my 2c.....why re-invent the wheel? Maybe offer to help improve AROS?

Also.......

"Work Bench 3.1" on a PC + "AROS is atrocious" in the same thread made me lol.
Think about it

What is the saying? Careful what you wish for? :P
005AGIMA is offline  
Old 12 August 2019, 00:47   #17
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,334
I wouldn't say AROS is like 3.1 at all. AROS is big, bloated and slow. Everything that WB 3.1 isn't.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 12 August 2019, 02:30   #18
005AGIMA
Re-loading. Please wait.

005AGIMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Perth, Australia & England
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I wouldn't say AROS is like 3.1 at all. AROS is big, bloated and slow. Everything that WB 3.1 isn't.
I found AROS (icAROS) to be really thin and light and fast.

It just wasn't useful for anything.
005AGIMA is offline  
Old 12 August 2019, 06:53   #19
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post
I found AROS (icAROS) to be really thin and light and fast.

It just wasn't useful for anything.
Yes, it flies on a modern PC with gigabytes of RAM. Try it on an Amiga
Hewitson is offline  
Old 12 August 2019, 07:02   #20
005AGIMA
Re-loading. Please wait.

005AGIMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Perth, Australia & England
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Yes, it flies on a modern PC with gigabytes of RAM. Try it on an Amiga
haha yeah doubt it would work at all on Amiga.

But to be fair, it's not the target. X86 is the target (and the target of this thread).

Must be hard to write for an almost infinite hardware combination.
005AGIMA is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What if the Amiga had been an audio/video card for PCs? Rotareneg Nostalgia & memories 11 10 August 2018 12:34
Ryś USB / Ryś MKII allows connecting original Amiga, C64, Atari joysticks to PCs, Mac spidi News 4 22 April 2015 04:02
WTB: 86-pin slot connectors 30 pcs for A500 side connection mkl MarketPlace 2 09 February 2014 19:24
Question regarding retro machines/PCs Wasagi Retrogaming General Discussion 11 29 June 2010 10:00
has anyone done system link over LAN with 2 PCs? ferrycorsten project.WinUAE - Kaillera 1 11 January 2005 04:18

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09021 seconds with 13 queries