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Old 05 June 2018, 17:13   #241
Daedalus
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I don't see how charging for a game really rules out being judged on the full version. If there are only a few judges involved, entrants could consider the entry "fee" to be one free copy of the game given to each judge. Of course, the judges wouldn't spread the game any further, which would still allow the game to be sold. Think of it like a review copy sent to a reviewer - it's likely to get your game a lot of publicity as an entry, so could ultimately result in more sales.
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Old 05 June 2018, 17:14   #242
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Well a full version which be given to the judges for testing. Each being marked for them like name in the title screen or something? Then if they are planning on selling ittheycan add something that will render the game useless after a certain date. Bearing in mind the judges are probably going to be respected members of the community that will probably suffice.
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Old 05 June 2018, 17:24   #243
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It seems unfair to have an entry which only the judges can play. Half the fun would be having a go yourself and seeing if you agree with the judges' opinions. I really don't like the idea that competition entries are unable to be played by everyone following the competition, without spending money. It seems common in other competitions to mandate that the entries to be judged are submitted as Freeware - this doesn't stop the games later being sold in their full version.
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Old 05 June 2018, 17:42   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickGyver View Post
Nice initiative!

My two cents, take it with a grain of Himalayan salt if you want:

1. One category only, plus points if the game can be run on a "standard" Amiga like OCS/ECS 512+512KB or AGA 2MB.

2. No ports. My reasoning is that game design, graphics, music and sound are a big part of making a game. Ports are nice but for a game development competition, not so much, how can you even compare a port to an original game?

3. Open source NOT a requirement.
I second this! (these)
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Old 05 June 2018, 18:53   #245
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Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
I'm happy to help out with domains and hosting, web development etc...maybe a Wordpress site or something.

Just let me know.

Geezer

Hi buddy that would be great to count with... A public Wordpress or whatever is a good idea , thanks for offer you to help with that.
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Old 05 June 2018, 19:03   #246
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As I said, as it's an EAB competition, RCK should get first dibs on hosting it.

If he passes, then fair enough lets look at other hosts.
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Old 05 June 2018, 19:29   #247
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My opinion about the rules and the type of contest? ... It is very difficult to agree many people in everything, that is clear, let's say that the normal thing is to decide a few "models" of contests and the most voted as it is take the cat to the water ... because opinions we all have a different one and we would never end up listening to all the types of entries and suggestions that many of us here can give. I think...


As I said let's go by steps, little by little, but seriously and defining.

1- Define the people that will be those who organize the Contest. (if this is not the first thing, badly we're going ...)

once this is defined ... let's continue to the next step.


My "Contest Model"
###################

3 Winners 1st - 2nd - 3rd - 50% 30% 20% for Prizes

What is important in a game? Some super pixel art and then a shit unplayable game? or a fun and playable game? if have the 2 then better but.. you will say ...

My idea of ??conditions - basically only a few -

That the game is made and created for this competition and to compete.

if it comes full Great, it does not arrive full and a demo comes? it will compete as it arrives ...

Whoever wants to publish his Game for everyone during the competition does it, who does not, so do not do it ... the only thing that everyone has the obligation is to send the game to the organization and judges for its evaluation.

What the owner wants to do with the game after the competition is up to him to sell it, give it away, eat it ...

Commercial Games or that are already published before this competition can not compete.

Source Code? Ehhh what is that? : D

AMIGA Classic or NewGen Amigas GAMES, what does it matter?

What is this for? TO HAVE MORE AMIGA GAMES RIGHT? Well, that ...


this is my humble idea of ??the rules but as I say in the end it is easier once <named the group of organizers that agree 5-10 people than 100 or more ....


Regards
Johnny

Last edited by Amiten; 05 June 2018 at 19:40.
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Old 05 June 2018, 20:00   #248
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What's the final specs for this game develompment contest?
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Old 05 June 2018, 20:24   #249
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Amiten summed it up pretty well imo
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Old 05 June 2018, 20:26   #250
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Amiten summed it up pretty well imo
Thanks.

Genre free or some in place?
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Old 05 June 2018, 20:40   #251
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Amiten summed it up pretty well imo
Thank you Mate!
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Old 05 June 2018, 21:43   #252
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Genre free. If you want to make a Pong clone, a point `n`click adventure, a space shoot'em up or a strategy game or a text adventure or.... anything goes
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Old 05 June 2018, 21:54   #253
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As this is an EAB compo, I had an idea to link it to the Lemon-EAB game compo.

The judges for this compo are the top X EAB players on the EAB side of the Lemon-EAB compo around the time the deadline approaches.

Gives anyone a chance to become a judge, means the judges will be selected transparently and might give a boost to the games compo.
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Old 05 June 2018, 23:13   #254
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OK, so in an attempt to build a consensus, I propose the following set of rules. Discuss.

Quote:
1. Single hardware category. Submission should mention target hardware (OCS 1Mb,AGA,Anything) and judges may take into consideration appropriate use of resources when scoring.

2. Prizes to be distributed 1st = 50%, 2nd = 30%, 3rd = 20% of prize fund, based on averaged judge score

3. Games must not have been published in any form before the competition

4. Games may be subsequently released commercially in whatever form the submitter chooses, but the submission for the competition should be distrubuted as part of the competition. Judgement will be made on the publically available submission (That is, what the judges play is the same as what anyone else following the competition can play).

5. Judges may score in the following categories
Game play (10 pts)
Graphics (5pts)
Sound/Music (5pts)
Originality (5pts)

6. Use of public domain resources (graphics, sound, plot, etc) is permitted but should be declared. Non-declared work is considered to be the submitter's own.

7. Judges will be selected by the organisers from the Amiga gaming community. Judges may not submit an entry for the competition.

8. Ports of existing games from other platforms are permitted, but as per Rule 6, re-used elements must be declared.

9. Open source is not required but is encouraged to help build the Amiga game development community. No points will be awarded, nor deducted, based on whether the source code is made available.

10. The competition will last 6 months from the official start date, and final submissions must be made by 23:59 UTC on the last day.

11. Submissions must be in the form of a disk image (or images) playable on both emulated and real hardware, according to the stated target hardware configuration. Instructions, etc, to be provided as necessary, as determined by the submitter.
I must insist (as much as someone can on such things) that point 4 be retained. I'm deepy uneasy about judges playing a different version to the public. It doesn't seem fair, open or honest to have a judges-special version. As real money is involved, transparency is vital.

Last edited by E-Penguin; 05 June 2018 at 23:19.
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Old 05 June 2018, 23:34   #255
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@E-Penguin You’re obviously passionate about open source, that’s a good thing. I’m right in your camp (check my GitHub for full open source releases of multiple full games). But I have found that this is not the case for the majority of Amiga game developers. Unfortunately the Amiga doesn’t have a good history of open source. Most of us Amiga enthusiasts are mainly crusty old people that are set in their ways

For this reason I don’t think we should alienate anyone by trying to force our open source ideals into this compo.

If we want to encourage open source let’s do it by example. Create cool stuff and publish the source, or take existing open source stuff and remix it.

Last edited by alpine9000; 05 June 2018 at 23:42.
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Old 05 June 2018, 23:52   #256
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I understand, and mostly agree, which is why I'm not proposing to make it a requirement. I do think we should stick to the ethos of source of this competition though, which stemmed from a discussion on how to make the home-brew games scene better. By far, the simplest and most effective way to do that is to have open sources - who hasn't learned programming by fiddling with something already there and seeing what happens? I don't think having an encouragement statement is going to stop someone from submitting a closed game but it might make someone open one up.

I will enter something, and it will be open sourced. In fact, you can already find some of my code (terrible though it is) in the blitz forum hereabouts.

This is a games development competition to encourage new and current home-brewers, not an advertising platform for commercial developers who would be making the game anyway. Or, rather, I feel it should be.
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Old 06 June 2018, 00:02   #257
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Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
I understand, and mostly agree, which is why I'm not proposing to make it a requirement. I do think we should stick to the ethos of source of this competition though, which stemmed from a discussion on how to make the home-brew games scene better. By far, the simplest and most effective way to do that is to have open sources - who hasn't learned programming by fiddling with something already there and seeing what happens? I don't think having an encouragement statement is going to stop someone from submitting a closed game but it might make someone open one up.

I will enter something, and it will be open sourced. In fact, you can already find some of my code (terrible though it is) in the blitz forum hereabouts.

This is a games development competition to encourage new and current home-brewers, not an advertising platform for commercial developers who would be making the game anyway. Or, rather, I feel it should be.
As much as I support free software I also don’t have a problem with people making high quality commercial games.

It may be that the Amiga homebrew scene would be better served by having a thriving commercial market or it may be better served by having a thriving open source culture.

As it’s impossible to know, let’s try and have both.

And I wouldn’t discount someone reading the rules, seeing “open source” and thinking “not for me”.
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Old 06 June 2018, 00:19   #258
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Regarding rule 5, I must admit even though I proposed it the other way first, I prefer Ian's suggestion to "judge the game as a whole", instead of grading in different aspects.

And regarding rule 1, someone mentioned to be able to submit more than one entry.


And I'd add one more rule:

Each entry will have one responsible, but he may receive support from up to other 2 people (music / gfx), and those should be credited properly.
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Old 06 June 2018, 00:19   #259
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Oh, I have no problems with commercial games at all. But what got me, and I think a lot of people excited, was something that would encourage people to start Amiga programming where they otherwise wouldn't, and offer a bit of incentive. I suppose if we get an awesome new commercial game out of it then it's also a success but perhaps not the success originially envisioned...

Anyway, OK, not a "rule" then, but I'd like to have it somewhere, as a statement of intent if nothing else.

I feel we should include Backbone etc as a re-use case, as the game engine is re-used. Permitted but it should be noted by the judges.

On the topic of scoring categories; I don't disagree but we should provide guidelines to the judges so that they all give equal weighting to the same elements. If one judge is particularly swayed by shiny graphics and another is all about the banging choonz, then it's not a comparible judgement. I provide a proposed revision:

Rules v2 (also considering Shatterhand's points too):
Quote:
1. Single hardware category. Submission should mention target hardware (OCS 1Mb,AGA,Anything) and judges may take into consideration appropriate use of resources when scoring. Each submitter can submit up to two entries.

2. Prizes to be distributed 1st = 50%, 2nd = 30%, 3rd = 20% of prize fund, based on averaged judge score

3. Games must not have been published in any form before the competition

4. Games may be subsequently released commercially in whatever form the submitter chooses, but the submission for the competition should be distrubuted as part of the competition. Judgement will be made on the publically available submission (That is, what the judges play is the same as what anyone else following the competition can play).

5. Judges willl provide a single score, and consider the following criteria, with the following weighting:
Game play 40%
Graphics 20%
Sound/Music 20%
Originality 20%

6. Use of public domain resources (graphics, sound, plot, etc) is permitted but should be declared. Non-declared work is considered to be the submitter's own.

7. Judges will be selected by the organisers from the Amiga gaming community. Judges may not submit an entry for the competition.

8. Ports of existing games from other platforms are permitted, but as per Rule 6, re-used elements must be declared.

9. The competition will last 6 months from the official start date, and final submissions must be made by 23:59 UTC on the last day.

10. Submissions must be in the form of a disk image (or images) playable on both emulated and real hardware, according to the stated target hardware configuration. Instructions, etc, to be provided as necessary, as determined by the submitter.

11. Each submission will have one responsible lead, but he may receive support from up to other 2 people, and those should be credited properly.

12. Use of game creation toolkits (e.g. Backbone, RedPill) is permitted but should be declared and will be considered a re-used resource as per Rule 6

Note; open source is not a requirement but is encouraged to help build the Amiga game development community.

Last edited by E-Penguin; 06 June 2018 at 00:28. Reason: considering shatterhand's input
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Old 06 June 2018, 00:34   #260
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Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
Oh, I have no problems with commercial games at all. But what got me, and I think a lot of people excited, was something that would encourage people to start Amiga programming where they otherwise wouldn't, and offer a bit of incentive. I suppose if we get an awesome new commercial game out of it then it's also a success but perhaps not the success originially envisioned...

Anyway, OK, not a "rule" then, but I'd like to have it somewhere, as a statement of intent if nothing else.
But what about encouraging new developers that want to progress to “commercial” games. I use quotes as there is no such thing on Amiga. People are selling games but I can guarantee no-one has ever come close to covering the development costs of an Amiga game this century.

Just seems like we should leave the politics out of it.
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