Amiga HDMI output

[Retro-Nerd]

personally I do not think it looks so horrible when not zoomed in as much as the video is doing

I meant the interlaced artefacts in motion (scrolling games), not the zoom. The output should be progressive in 720p/1080p imo.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Staringlizard

I would say that the PAL Amiga normally output 576i. All the games I have tried so far at least. The startup screen is not using the interlaced mode though. But I could be wrong ?

Only the flickering Amiga modes are in interlace, everything else is displayed in a progressive mode (288p for PAL machines). So to me this sounds like you're forcibly deinterlacing a progressive screen. Each field is unique.

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

If you think the interlacing will get worse in PAL mode by changing vertical Hz, It is an interesting thought, one that I will test today actually
Thankfully it is very easy to change.

Well not the interlacing, but if you have something that runs 50FPS (such as a scrolling playfield), you will get jerky motion.

[Staringlizard]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

is it possible to configure it not to stretch the image sideways to widescreen width? or does it work with non-widescreen monitors?

Yes, it is possible. As you can see in the video when oil imperium the button has a mode which it is shrinking the horizontal width. I do not know if toady it is possible to get it exactly 1:1 with this option though. It is also possible to configure this by UART (3.3V ttl) on the card itself (where all registers can be manually set for ad9984 and adv7511w).

I have tried on a monitor here that is non-wide and very old (found it in the trash). On this monitor it seems that the monitor itself takes own measures to counter this problem and it looks OK.

[Staringlizard]

Originally Posted by Jope

Only the flickering Amiga modes are in interlace, everything else is displayed in a progressive mode (288p for PAL machines). So to me this sounds like you're forcibly deinterlacing a progressive screen. Each field is unique.

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/



Well not the interlacing, but if you have something that runs 50FPS (such as a scrolling playfield), you will get jerky motion.

It seems you are correct, I found some bug in the Verilog code that will make even progressive output display as interlaced

Thank for your input, I will see what I can do. I think I will release another video where I demonstrate horizontal movement as well as vertical.

Regards,
StaringL

[kipper2k]

Love it,

One more thing with the design, The 23 pin right angle through hole connectors are very hard to find, so unless you have an A520 to mutilate the board is not going to get a lot of users. Any chance of modding it for a 23 pin solder cup connector (this way a cut down 25 pin solder cup connector can be used.

(In theory a cut down 25 pin R/A through hole could be used)

[Mrs Beanbag]

i would happily buy one with a cable so it doesn't have to stick straight out of the back of the computer (which isn't very convenient if the monitor is right behind.)

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Staringlizard

It seems you are correct, I found some bug in the Verilog code that will make even progressive output display as interlaced

Thank for your input, I will see what I can do. I think I will release another video where I demonstrate horizontal movement as well as vertical.

Regards,
StaringL

Cool stuff, hope you get it running. I'm definitely following your project with interest. :-)

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Staringlizard

I am not sure, but anything that outputs 576i and probably similar formats like 480i (not tested) will be converted. I have tested with Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200 in PAL. Multiscan and other formats will not work. In most games I think 576i is used but I am not sure.

Very few games use interlaced output - pretty much everything uses 50Hz 288p (or 60Hz 240p on an NTSC Amiga).

The horizontal update frequency is around 15Khz for these old computers. I do not think you can use the RBG input on your not so old TV due to lack of support. But I am not sure, if you try it out, please send a memo

Every TV will support 15kHz if it has analogue inputs since this is also the frequency used by analogue video signals. I've yet to see a new TV without at least one analogue input, but I suppose those days will arrive at some point so it's good to have a HDMI option available. Computer monitors are a different story since they don't often support 15kHz, but that's been the case for probably 20 years so it's nothing new.

Good work on the project!

[Staringlizard]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Very few games use interlaced output - pretty much everything uses 50Hz 288p (or 60Hz 240p on an NTSC Amiga).



Every TV will support 15kHz if it has analogue inputs since this is also the frequency used by analogue video signals. I've yet to see a new TV without at least one analogue input, but I suppose those days will arrive at some point so it's good to have a HDMI option available. Computer monitors are a different story since they don't often support 15kHz, but that's been the case for probably 20 years so it's nothing new.

Good work on the project!

Thanks a lot, I will keep you guys updated on the project. Perhaps we can get a small series of these boards to be produced

Oh, I did not know that, I thought it was 30Khz minimum on VGA, but maybe this is only true for computer monitors. And I agree, HDMI will be around for some years to come.

[Mrs Beanbag]

we use an XBox 360 over HDMI on a (fairly cheap) PC monitor, and i think that is 50Hz, not sure though

i'm not sure why it would even matter on today's LCD screens, since there is not an actual electron beam sweeping the screen, it must have a maximum refresh rate but why there would be a minimum i don't know

[Devlin]

I would very much like to know when/if these are released properly. I really don't like the idea of attaching things directly on top of the chips on my amiga and my shitty composite/vga adapter isn't up to snuff any more.

I'd like to see it with a cable of some sort(detachable?), instead of attaching directly to the back of the amiga.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Staringlizard

I would say that the PAL Amiga normally output 576i

Absolutely correct.
As every 15 KHz PAL product (DVD players, VCRs, DVB Decoders ecc.).

Originally Posted by Jope

Only the flickering Amiga modes are in interlace, everything else is displayed in a progressive mode (288p for PAL machines). So to me this sounds like you're forcibly deinterlacing a progressive screen. Each field is unique.

No. Normal RGB Amiga signal (15 KHz) is always outputting in *interlaced* 50Hz mode.
It never outputs a 288p progressive signal. Never.
So the assumption that the output signal is always 576i is correct.
Amiga interlaced (highres) modes have a further "internal" interlacing, meaning that the refresh is half the normal (that's why these modes are so fatiguing for the eyes). But ALL Amiga modes are output as interlaced (apart from the new ECS productive modes, shown on 31KHz monitors).

[Retro-Nerd]

Sorry Supamax. This is nonsense. All computer/consoles from that time outputs a 240/288p signal for lores games. It's a non-standard PAL/NTSC signal, today also comparable with Low-definition television. Don't mix up the interlaced TV standard with this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-definition_television

[Jope]

Indeed indeed. This is not a broadcast video signal at all.. Just something the TVs at the time happened to accept.

In a progressive mode, the Amiga only outputs even fields.

http://jope.fi/amiga/Specifications_AGNUS_png0039.png

[Staringlizard]

Originally Posted by Devlin

I would very much like to know when/if these are released properly. I really don't like the idea of attaching things directly on top of the chips on my amiga and my shitty composite/vga adapter isn't up to snuff any more.

I'd like to see it with a cable of some sort(detachable?), instead of attaching directly to the back of the amiga.

I will keep you guys posted. If this product where to be released I think there will be lots of changes, including what you are saying.

[SleepyMan]

WOW really cool , if you are going to sell them I would be very interested.. Is the Price Range set at this moment

[Staringlizard]

Originally Posted by SleepyMan

WOW really cool , if you are going to sell them I would be very interested.. Is the Price Range set at this moment

Nothing is really set yet, keep your eyes on this thread

[Staringlizard]

Hi,

I made another video as demonstration. I have fixed some bugs and also changed the output to 50Hz as Jobe pointed out. I have also tried and highlight the current issues in this video.

[ Show youtube player ]

Regards,
StaringL

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Staringlizard

Hi,

I made another video as demonstration. I have fixed some bugs and also changed the output to 50Hz as Jobe pointed out. I have also tried and highlight the current issues in this video.

[ Show youtube player ]

Regards,
StaringL

This is AMAZING work @StaringLizard
I love it when ppl be like "scr3w this, Ill make it myself" ;-)
If you would consider producing higher volumes there are ppl around on these boards with the proper connections with the right kind of manufacturers for projects like this.

[Predseda]

Seems A520s will be wanted soon