50 Hz output with Intel HD chip ? (NUC)

mahen · 26 April 2014, 08:55

Hey ! Does any of you guys have hints to get a NUC (Intel HD chipset, 4000 in my case) to output at 50 Hz with FS-UAE ?

Planning to use one as a MAME machine, and if possible Amiga too, in a homemade arcade cabinet

Cheers & thanks a lot to the devs !!!!

Edit : under Linux. Haven't chosen the distro yet !

Goingdown · 26 April 2014, 09:54

I have had bad experiences with Intel+Linux+50Hz mode... I cannot get it to work properly. I have added xorg.conf custom frequences, and xrandr shows them and changes the refresh rate (at least it says so) but fs-uae is very jerky.

Edit. I have Lenovo Thinpad T420 laptop with HD Graphics 3000, under Fedora 20.

mahen · 01 May 2014, 23:21

Oh... Any other experience ?

Meanwhile, I use it with tearing, that's usable anyway

Goingdown · 02 May 2014, 06:18

You may try by yourself like this:

1. add custom video mode (with 50hz refresh rate) to your /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/custom-resolutions.conf (note that you may need to add screen, device and layout sections to get it to work)
2. restart X11
3. switch to 50-hz mode with command
xrandr -s {videomodename} --rate 50
4. test fs-uae

mahen · 02 June 2014, 12:38

Hi ! I think I'm almost there ! I managed to create a 50 Hz modeline and switch to it with xrandr ; problem is fs-uae switches back to 60 Hz. Here is what I did :

- I tried adding a mode to my xorg.conf but it didn't work
so I did this from the terminal :

Code:

gtf 1280 1024 50

which gave me :

Code:

  # 1280x1024 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 52.70 kHz; pclk: 89.38 MHz
  Modeline "1280x1024_50.00"  89.38  1280 1352 1488 1696  1024 1025 1028 1054  -HSync +Vsync

so I created a new mode :

Code:

 xrandr --newmode  "1280x1024_50"  89.38  1280 1352 1488 1696  1024 1025 1028 1054 -HSync +VSync

I attached it to the right video device :

Code:

xrandr --addmode HDMI1 1280x1024_50

and switched to it with :

Code:

xrandr -r 50

It worked ! But the problem is, the screenmode is not added properly, so FS-UAE doesn't see 50 Hz is available and switches back to 60 Hz:

xrandr

Code:

Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1280 x 1024, maximum 32767 x 32767
VGA1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI1 connected primary 1280x1024+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 337mm x 270mm
   1280x1024      60.0*+   75.0  
   1280x960       60.0  
   1152x864       75.0  
   1024x768       75.1     70.1     60.0  
   832x624        74.6  
   800x600        72.2     75.0     60.3     56.2  
   640x480        75.0     72.8     66.7     60.0  
   720x400        70.1  
   1280x1024_50   50.0  
DP1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
DP2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
VIRTUAL1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
  1280x1024_50.00 (0xc9)   89.4MHz
        h: width  1280 start 1352 end 1488 total 1696 skew    0 clock   52.7KHz
        v: height 1024 start 1025 end 1028 total 1054           clock   50.0Hz

You can see, the 1280x1024_50 modeline is distinct from the general 1280x1024 line which lists all the available frequencies at this resolution.

Any idea ?

Thanks a lot !!

Also FYI, here's my /etc/xorg.conf/20-intel.conf that doesn't seem to work as it doesn't add any mode :

Code:

Section "Device"
        Identifier "Intel Graphics"
        Driver "intel"
        Option "TearFree" "true"
          Option "ModeValidation" "AllowNon60HzDFPModes"
  Option "FlatPanelProperties" "Scaling=Native"
  Option "UseEvents" "True"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier "Default Monitor"
        Option "UseEdidFreqs" "False"
        Option "ExactModeTimingsDVI" "True"
        # 1280x1024 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 52.70 kHz; pclk: 89.38 MHz
  Modeline "1280x1024_50.00"  89.38  1280 1352 1488 1696  1024 1025 1028 1054  $
        HorizSync 30-83
        VertRefresh 46-76
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Default Screen"
        Monitor "Default Monitor"
        Device "Intel Graphics"
        DefaultDepth 24
        Subsection "Display"
                Depth 24
                Modes "1280x1024_50_0"
        EndSubsection
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier    "Default Layout"
    Screen        "Default Screen"
EndSection

mahen · 02 June 2014, 17:12

Hmm, I figured out that Unity (well, one of its subsystem) was actually switching back to 60 Hz ! (when starting system configuration for instance).

So I started X with no desktop environment : it worked ! My 50 Hz mode was kept when starting FS-UAE ! But.... For some reason, the animation is not 100% smooth and the sound has micro-gaps (not constant ones ; for instance, if you hit F12 you realize that there are more gaps and that sound seems to be slowed down a little).

My monitor OSD does report 50 Hz, but there's still something wrong...

mahen · 02 June 2014, 17:34

OK, I remove the "low latency" option and now sound is OK ; scrolling is almost good but there are "jumps" in the scrolling now and then...

It's really ALMOST satisfying. Actually, it would be OK if there was not this input lag (which I had also in 60 Hz mode).

I can definitely feel the delay before pushing a button / key and seing the result on screen. Can it be improved ?

FrodeSolheim · 02 June 2014, 20:11

Hi torturedutopian, glad to hear that you've got a 50Hz mode working. I've got an nVidia card here, so I couldn't really provide any good help on that.

Regarding input lag, one possibility (though difficult to measure?) is that the OpenGL driver queues up multiple frames. Perhaps you can try to experiment with the different "video sync methods" in FS-UAE and see if one of them provides better results?

One very useful keyboard shortcut to know about is Ctrl+F10. This brings up a "performance overlay" which displays graphs with:

Timings for emulated frames (and emulation fps).
Timings for rendered frames (and rendered fps).
Audio buffer content.

If full video synchronization is working properly, both video graphs should be more or less flat, and both SYS and EMU fps should be 50.0. So, including screenshots of these graphs can help while discussing performance

(Also, please note that leaving low-latency vsync off adds one video frame of latency ~20ms).

mahen · 02 June 2014, 21:01

Thanks a lot for your reply !

Here's a grab I made (camera picture actually, modified to be readable, as I start fs-uae with no desktop environment in order to prevent the automatic mode switching -- although there's is probably a better solution

http://mahen.free.fr/temp/fsuae50hz.JPG

(also, I removed Pulseaudio and am using an USB audio device as I cannot use the HDMI sound output ; + there's a no tearing option added to my xorg.conf for the intel gpu)

After removing the "tearfree" option which doesn't seem needed anymore, the digits at the bottom left change from "49.8 / 21 / 22" to "49.8 / 11 / 11" the one at the bottom right is highter though (36 instead of 28)

Edit : when trying low latency mode again, framerate drops around 45 and the digit at the bottom right is around 120
Edit 2 : I removed 2 lines from my limits.conf which gave too much priority to the audio & also re-enabled pulse. It seems the improve the situation a little but still not enough. I suspect the culprit is the USB audio interface and/or my i3 cpu. I still do not reach 50 fps (49.8), scrolling is ALMOST perfect but sounds stutters once in a while and there is too much delay to my taste.

FrodeSolheim · 02 June 2014, 22:18

http://mahen.free.fr/temp/fsuae50hz.JPG looks normal for full vsync

But "tearfree" option in Xorg.conf sounds suspicious, as that can imply some sort of buffering or interference with FS-UAE's attempts to synchronize with vblank. So I suggest you keep it off.

Another thing to note in the graphs - when full video sync is active, there's two colors in the emulation graph (yellow-ish and orange-ish). This allows you to see how much time is used emulating the frame (yellow), and how much time is spent waiting for vblank (orange).

You can see from the graph that sometimes, the yellow bit is quite high, which leaves little time left to transferring the texture to the GPU and render it to screen (with low latency vsync, this is done directly after the frame is ready from the emulation). So you probably have just a bit too slow system for low latency vsync without taking steps to increase emulation performance. See http://fs-uae.net/performance for some alternatives

(Just FYI, FS-UAE itself never switches mode. It uses the current desktop resolution / refresh rate).

Btw, 49.8 fps is not necessarily a problem by itself. If your "50 Hz" refresh rate is actually 49.8 Hz, then that is fine, and FS-UAE will sync to that. If the OpenGL driver, the graphics card and the monitor all agree on the 49.8 Hz, everything is fine.

You can use the scrolling strip of triangles on the Ctrl+F10 overlay to visually gauge if the refresh rate is constant. When everything works properly, the triangle strip should never stutter (when syncing to vblank only).

mahen · 02 June 2014, 22:30

Thanks again for the information !
What a pity, it's a machine I recently acquired, it never crossed my mind it could be too slow for UAE, hehe

Will try to find some ways to speed it up ; thanks again ! I guess USB audio takes some CPU cycles away too.

FrodeSolheim · 02 June 2014, 22:37

It's not necessarily too slow, but it's one explanation for low latency vsync problems. One way to test that is to use "less accurate" in FS-UAE launcher, and make sure you use A500/A500+/A600, and not A1200! That should give a good bit of extra performance. If scrolling is perfectly smooth then...

(FS-UAE is also slightly optimized towards discrete GPUs. With integrated GPUs, the texture transfer is probably pointless, and FS-UAE could rather use some kind of unified memory support instead).

mahen · 23 June 2014, 10:38

Hi ! Sorry, I took quite some time to get back to you

How can I set a global “accuracy = 0″ setting which would be used by all games through FS-UAE Arcade ?

Thanks again for your help !

FrodeSolheim · 02 July 2014, 23:26

Sorry, as this point it isn't possible to set global accuracy with FS-UAE Launcher/Arcade :-/

jbl007 · 03 July 2014, 21:30

Hm, if I set "accuracy = 0" in custom settings in fs-uae-launcher, it also works in arcade.
Perhaps only if unset in oagd, didn't check...

Some other tips:
- You can reduce CPU usage by setting texture format to rgba8 on an Intel HD4000.
- Set Option "TripleBuffer" "false" in xorg.conf
- Remove Option "TearFree" in xorg.conf
- Uninstall pulse audio, it can eat a lot of CPU
- http://askubuntu.com/questions/44032...minal-commands

mahen · 04 September 2014, 12:48

Thanks for all the advice ! BTW I just realized I was using a 64 bits distro, which means : no JIT.

Does the JIT make any difference at all when emulating ECS / AGA games ?

Samurai_Crow · 06 September 2014, 18:10

JIT speeds up processor emulation a LOT on most games.

mahen · 06 September 2014, 18:14

Ahah, so it turns out it's what I should have done first

Install 32 bits UAE

However, I use 64 bits distros for gains in MAME for instance...

15 December 2017, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by torturedutopian

Hi ! I think I'm almost there ! I managed to create a 50 Hz modeline and switch to it with xrandr ; problem is fs-uae switches back to 60 Hz. Here is what I did :

- I tried adding a mode to my xorg.conf but it didn't work
so I did this from the terminal :

Code:

gtf 1280 1024 50

which gave me :

Code:

  # 1280x1024 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 52.70 kHz; pclk: 89.38 MHz
  Modeline "1280x1024_50.00"  89.38  1280 1352 1488 1696  1024 1025 1028 1054  -HSync +Vsync

so I created a new mode :

Code:

 xrandr --newmode  "1280x1024_50"  89.38  1280 1352 1488 1696  1024 1025 1028 1054 -HSync +VSync

I attached it to the right video device :

Code:

xrandr --addmode HDMI1 1280x1024_50

and switched to it with :

Code:

xrandr -r 50

It worked !

Hi,
on my system doesn't work: when i run "xrandr -r 50" i have black screen and the OSD of monitor says OUT OF RANGE :-(

default xrandr:

Code:

$ xrandr 
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1024 x 768, maximum 8192 x 8192
VGA-1 connected primary 1024x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 708mm x 398mm
   1280x720      50.00 +
   1024x768      75.03*   70.07    60.00  
   832x624       74.55  
   800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32    56.25  
   640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    59.94  
   720x400       70.08  
DP-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
DP-2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

(1280x720 resolution doesn't work: black screen and OSD shows "OUT OF RANGE")

Code:

$ cvt 1024 768 50
# 1024x768 49.98 Hz (CVT 0.79M3) hsync: 39.63 kHz; pclk: 52.00 MHz
Modeline "1024x768_50.00"   52.00  1024 1072 1168 1312  768 771 775 793 -hsync +vsync

$ xrandr --newmode  "1024x768_50.00"   52.00  1024 1072 1168 1312  768 771 775 793 -hsync +vsync

$ xrandr --addmode VGA-1 "1024x768_50.00"

$ xrandr --output VGA-1 --mode 1024x768_50.00

black screen with OUT OF RANGE:-|

i also tried to edit xorg conf but X starts at 60Hz:

Code:

$ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf
Section "Device"
        Identifier "Intel Graphics"
        Driver "intel"
        Option "TearFree" "true"
          Option "ModeValidation" "AllowNon60HzDFPModes"
  Option "FlatPanelProperties" "Scaling=Native"
  Option "UseEvents" "True"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier "Default Monitor"
        Option "UseEdidFreqs" "False"
        Option "ExactModeTimingsDVI" "True"
        # 1280x1024 @ 50.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 52.70 kHz; pclk: 89.38 MHz
        Modeline "1024x768_50.00"   52.00  1024 1072 1168 1312  768 771 775 793 -hsync +vsync
        HorizSync 30-83
        VertRefresh 46-76
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Default Screen"
        Monitor "Default Monitor"
        Device "Intel Graphics"
        DefaultDepth 24
        Subsection "Display"
                Depth 24
                Modes "1024x768_50_0"
        EndSubsection
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier    "Default Layout"
    Screen        "Default Screen"
EndSection

i have an Intel HD GPU integrated on CPU:

Code:

$ lspci|grep -i vga
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Atom Processor Z36xxx/Z37xxx Series Graphics & Display (rev 0e)

Code:

$ pacman -Q|grep xf86-video
xf86-video-intel 1:2.99.917+800+g37a682aa-1
xf86-video-vesa 2.3.4-4

26 April 2014, 08:55	#1
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	50 Hz output with Intel HD chip ? (NUC) Hey ! Does any of you guys have hints to get a NUC (Intel HD chipset, 4000 in my case) to output at 50 Hz with FS-UAE ? Planning to use one as a MAME machine, and if possible Amiga too, in a homemade arcade cabinet Cheers & thanks a lot to the devs !!!! Edit : under Linux. Haven't chosen the distro yet !

02 June 2014, 17:12	#6
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	Hmm, I figured out that Unity (well, one of its subsystem) was actually switching back to 60 Hz ! (when starting system configuration for instance). So I started X with no desktop environment : it worked ! My 50 Hz mode was kept when starting FS-UAE ! But.... For some reason, the animation is not 100% smooth and the sound has micro-gaps (not constant ones ; for instance, if you hit F12 you realize that there are more gaps and that sound seems to be slowed down a little). My monitor OSD does report 50 Hz, but there's still something wrong... Last edited by mahen; 02 June 2014 at 17:20.

02 June 2014, 17:34	#7
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	OK, I remove the "low latency" option and now sound is OK ; scrolling is almost good but there are "jumps" in the scrolling now and then... It's really ALMOST satisfying. Actually, it would be OK if there was not this input lag (which I had also in 60 Hz mode). I can definitely feel the delay before pushing a button / key and seing the result on screen. Can it be improved ? Last edited by mahen; 02 June 2014 at 17:43.

02 June 2014, 20:11	#8
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	Hi torturedutopian, glad to hear that you've got a 50Hz mode working. I've got an nVidia card here, so I couldn't really provide any good help on that. Regarding input lag, one possibility (though difficult to measure?) is that the OpenGL driver queues up multiple frames. Perhaps you can try to experiment with the different "video sync methods" in FS-UAE and see if one of them provides better results? One very useful keyboard shortcut to know about is Ctrl+F10. This brings up a "performance overlay" which displays graphs with: Timings for emulated frames (and emulation fps). Timings for rendered frames (and rendered fps). Audio buffer content. If full video synchronization is working properly, both video graphs should be more or less flat, and both SYS and EMU fps should be 50.0. So, including screenshots of these graphs can help while discussing performance (Also, please note that leaving low-latency vsync off adds one video frame of latency ~20ms).

02 June 2014, 21:01	#9
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	Thanks a lot for your reply ! Here's a grab I made (camera picture actually, modified to be readable, as I start fs-uae with no desktop environment in order to prevent the automatic mode switching -- although there's is probably a better solution http://mahen.free.fr/temp/fsuae50hz.JPG (also, I removed Pulseaudio and am using an USB audio device as I cannot use the HDMI sound output ; + there's a no tearing option added to my xorg.conf for the intel gpu) After removing the "tearfree" option which doesn't seem needed anymore, the digits at the bottom left change from "49.8 / 21 / 22" to "49.8 / 11 / 11" the one at the bottom right is highter though (36 instead of 28) Edit : when trying low latency mode again, framerate drops around 45 and the digit at the bottom right is around 120 Edit 2 : I removed 2 lines from my limits.conf which gave too much priority to the audio & also re-enabled pulse. It seems the improve the situation a little but still not enough. I suspect the culprit is the USB audio interface and/or my i3 cpu. I still do not reach 50 fps (49.8), scrolling is ALMOST perfect but sounds stutters once in a while and there is too much delay to my taste. Last edited by TCD; 02 July 2014 at 23:57. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged

26 April 2014, 09:54	#2
Goingdown Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Finland Posts: 162	I have had bad experiences with Intel+Linux+50Hz mode... I cannot get it to work properly. I have added xorg.conf custom frequences, and xrandr shows them and changes the refresh rate (at least it says so) but fs-uae is very jerky. Edit. I have Lenovo Thinpad T420 laptop with HD Graphics 3000, under Fedora 20.

01 May 2014, 23:21	#3
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	Oh... Any other experience ? Meanwhile, I use it with tearing, that's usable anyway

02 May 2014, 06:18	#4
Goingdown Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Finland Posts: 162	You may try by yourself like this: 1. add custom video mode (with 50hz refresh rate) to your /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/custom-resolutions.conf (note that you may need to add screen, device and layout sections to get it to work) 2. restart X11 3. switch to 50-hz mode with command xrandr -s {videomodename} --rate 50 4. test fs-uae

02 June 2014, 22:18	#10
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	http://mahen.free.fr/temp/fsuae50hz.JPG looks normal for full vsync But "tearfree" option in Xorg.conf sounds suspicious, as that can imply some sort of buffering or interference with FS-UAE's attempts to synchronize with vblank. So I suggest you keep it off. Another thing to note in the graphs - when full video sync is active, there's two colors in the emulation graph (yellow-ish and orange-ish). This allows you to see how much time is used emulating the frame (yellow), and how much time is spent waiting for vblank (orange). You can see from the graph that sometimes, the yellow bit is quite high, which leaves little time left to transferring the texture to the GPU and render it to screen (with low latency vsync, this is done directly after the frame is ready from the emulation). So you probably have just a bit too slow system for low latency vsync without taking steps to increase emulation performance. See http://fs-uae.net/performance for some alternatives (Just FYI, FS-UAE itself never switches mode. It uses the current desktop resolution / refresh rate). Btw, 49.8 fps is not necessarily a problem by itself. If your "50 Hz" refresh rate is actually 49.8 Hz, then that is fine, and FS-UAE will sync to that. If the OpenGL driver, the graphics card and the monitor all agree on the 49.8 Hz, everything is fine. You can use the scrolling strip of triangles on the Ctrl+F10 overlay to visually gauge if the refresh rate is constant. When everything works properly, the triangle strip should never stutter (when syncing to vblank only). Last edited by TCD; 02 July 2014 at 23:57. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged

02 June 2014, 22:30	#11
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	Thanks again for the information ! What a pity, it's a machine I recently acquired, it never crossed my mind it could be too slow for UAE, hehe Will try to find some ways to speed it up ; thanks again ! I guess USB audio takes some CPU cycles away too.

02 June 2014, 22:37	#12
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	It's not necessarily too slow, but it's one explanation for low latency vsync problems. One way to test that is to use "less accurate" in FS-UAE launcher, and make sure you use A500/A500+/A600, and not A1200! That should give a good bit of extra performance. If scrolling is perfectly smooth then... (FS-UAE is also slightly optimized towards discrete GPUs. With integrated GPUs, the texture transfer is probably pointless, and FS-UAE could rather use some kind of unified memory support instead).

23 June 2014, 10:38	#13
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	Hi ! Sorry, I took quite some time to get back to you How can I set a global “accuracy = 0″ setting which would be used by all games through FS-UAE Arcade ? Thanks again for your help !

02 July 2014, 23:26	#14
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	Sorry, as this point it isn't possible to set global accuracy with FS-UAE Launcher/Arcade :-/

03 July 2014, 21:30	#15
jbl007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Leipzig/Germany Posts: 466	Hm, if I set "accuracy = 0" in custom settings in fs-uae-launcher, it also works in arcade. Perhaps only if unset in oagd, didn't check... Some other tips: - You can reduce CPU usage by setting texture format to rgba8 on an Intel HD4000. - Set Option "TripleBuffer" "false" in xorg.conf - Remove Option "TearFree" in xorg.conf - Uninstall pulse audio, it can eat a lot of CPU - http://askubuntu.com/questions/44032...minal-commands

04 September 2014, 12:48	#16
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	Thanks for all the advice ! BTW I just realized I was using a 64 bits distro, which means : no JIT. Does the JIT make any difference at all when emulating ECS / AGA games ?

06 September 2014, 18:10	#17
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,187	JIT speeds up processor emulation a LOT on most games. Last edited by Samurai_Crow; 06 September 2014 at 18:13. Reason: wrong grammar

06 September 2014, 18:14	#18
mahen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: France Age: 41 Posts: 435	Ahah, so it turns out it's what I should have done first Install 32 bits UAE However, I use 64 bits distros for gains in MAME for instance...

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