Ebay pimps making a profit out of the scene

Bloodwych · 14 March 2010, 18:14

Here we go again; another day, another person making a profit out of other peoples work:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Amiga-1200-4GB...#ht_2288wt_907

Nice of him to mention where he downloading everything.

So no credit AT ALL to where it all came from - he must have just done it himself yes? And £40???

If he credited a few places and offered a service for a modest fee, I wouldn't be so bothered. It's the fact that ANYONE here on this board can do what this person is doing – it’s SOOOO EASY - and they put more effort into the community for free so perhaps could do this more deservingly.

This guy probably has done sweet FA to help with the community and is in it purely for the profit rather than helping people out. If I'm wrong, then I apologise. If it's someone here, then own up and lets go through the wrongs and rights.

Just gets me angry when people stroll into a community, download other peoples work and sell it with no credit or asking. Just in it for a quick buck.

DH · 14 March 2010, 18:24

Workbench disks (even if modified) are still copyrighted. Report it.

Bloodwych · 14 March 2010, 18:24

Looking at the pics, it looks like he actually didn't use the ClassicWB packs, but he has used KG's and others WHDLoad installs. So my error, saw the icons and jumped to conclusions as it has happened in the past, but the point still stands.

Is selling this stuff right? At £40 I don't think so. The content itself isn't legal to sell, but done in a good and respectful manner with a modest profit it can offer people a good service. Same with DVD's.

Bloodwych · 14 March 2010, 18:41

Just to point out, this guy has sold 7 of these already - that's £280.

Take away fees and hardware, he's making quite a lot of money - say £140 so far?

cosmicfrog · 14 March 2010, 18:42

well there seems to be a market for them as he`s sold 7

shame that they don`t get any wb disks, Still it comes down to who owns wb
perhapse we could point some copyright owners his way and see if he is breaking the law

as it be really nice if Bloodwych could release his classic wb`s with WB already set up

Bloodwych · 14 March 2010, 19:14

The thing is, I'm not a copyright police agency who hounds any infringement down with a ruthless attitude. I wouldn't care if someone is selling their Amiga hard drive with Workbench/ClassicWB whatever on it - doesn't bother me.

It's the fact that someone is producing something like this or DVD's on mass purely for a large profit, not for love of the community. They didn't write the slaves, create the packs, they didn't write the software they use to do the task (like WinUAE), they didn't discuss it with the community or offer anything that we know of in return.

Just download -> copy -> sell. Easy, and profitable. I'd much rather see those funds go to better causes in the community.

It also hurts places like Amigakit who sell these things in a legitimate setting.

alexh · 14 March 2010, 20:28

The item appears to have been removed. Post the user name of the seller to avoid.

Photon · 14 March 2010, 20:54

I'm not usually into these copyright issues, since they're surrounded by a lot hypocrisy if we're being honest here.

The company who currently owns the right to WB 3.0 has a legal right to sue, of course. I don't even remember who does own WB 3.0. Licensors of same may report him.

But there is a bit of a double moral standard in the Amiga and retro communities. I'd say the majority of the people running WB 3.1 lack a set of WB 3.1 disks. At the same time, those CRIMINALS#$%^&! probably have a set of WB 3.0 disks, 3 Amigas, and have supported the community strongly by upgrading their old beasts.

My conscience is pretty clear - I have 9 Amigas, and even more sets of original Workbench disks, and a bunch of extra original kickstarts left over from upgrades. At the same time, one of my 12 or so kickstart sets is a 'burned EPROM!!'. I committed this hinous crime mainly because I wanted to upgrade quickly and not wait for getting it shipped from abroad.

At the same time, my aura is blackened by the fact that I have about 500 disks with copied games - most came with the Amigas I bought second hand and are used when I need a blank, but probably 60 disks with or without read errors are still left from my sinful teenage days when I didn't know to pay 30 GBP each for them. I do own software originals, I do. But they are kind of few and far between in the diskbox.

I think this story goes kinda like this for almost every Amiga lover.

The double standard I think lies in pointing the finger at someone making the slightest bit of money off the Amiga. This also seems to plague those who truly support the Amiga with hardware and software that they own licenses to, I'm afraid. So you get a double double standard backfiring on them, righteous believers think they make too money and they would rather fuck the Amiga for cheaper than to be "held ransom with their pricing gun at their temple".

That approach is not for me to say anything about, I spend a lot of time and money on my Amigas and sometimes but rarely do the same.

I'd rather buy this guy's product than be ripped off by some store selling the CF card, pay 6 GBP for the itty bitty cable, and spending ages (if I were a new user) getting it set up well and working. If him making 14 GBP off this will make the old Amiga in the cupboard so good a new user will use it every day again, then it will help the community by getting one more Amiga 'online'. This is a big obstacle to overcome for many I think, maybe this will wet his appetite enough to buy upgrades from Amigakit, Vesalia etc.

Far be it to defend some unknown on eBay, but it's certainly not a rip-off price either. And it helps people get Amigas running. That's important.

WHDload is of course cracked copies of originals, sold at a (very low) price. I don't think the eBay guy is including a WHDload key in the price, though. Either way, selling an installed CF card and offering freely downloadable games are copying originals. It seems dubious in the extreme to accuse someone of ripping off the WHDload guys by installing it on a card.

I use WHDload (more criminality!!), I don't think it's the end of the world if I pirate something that nobody sells ("can't be bought anywhere"). For the stuff that CAN, those who care can try to 'funnel' new Amiga users to the companies that sell them, to keep them making money and support the Amiga.

But at this stage in the game, I'm for other ways of making Amiga and its companies and people in general prosper and grow, too. If 1000 knowledgable Amiga guys can start companies and make money, selling hardware, software, books, or stickers, the more alive the Amiga will be! Even copying software, cloning hardware, or cloning OSes

Then let the rights owners sue if they want, or let them contact their 'resellers' with a really cheap licensing fee so more people make money off Amiga. And leave the moralizing to others, and ffs leave the newbies who just want their Amiga running again alone!

Personally I would love to see the rights owners set up a sub-licensing fee framework for low-volume single-employee companies. Or the 3-4 companies (with admirable professionals supporting the Amiga) could set up a reseller contract or even a limited employee contract of sorts for the persons who after all only sells, what? 1, 5, 10, 20 burned kickstarts or installed CF cards a month?

This is a problem, but not an impossibility. Until the day I die my only religion is that every problem can be solved, or it's not a problem.

Bloodwych, I know you're just expressing your love and respect for this great computer, but 15 years after Amiga owners last did anything for the community, it's time we let the rights owners be upset if they can be bothered, I think

OK, end of heart outpour

I also know I'm talking back to a moderator, but I only put this effort into the wording/exaggerations because I disagree with the general moralizing - I hope I've made it clear I'm for rights owners, companies like Amigakit, and even dirty scoundrels making a fistful of dollars from getting more Amigas running.

Bloodwych · 14 March 2010, 21:31

You bring up many good points Photon, and I've already given my take on it above. I'm not a letter of the law person, especially so long after the Amiga's death and for reasons you state. It's just the "on mass" profiters that hits a nerve.

Burning DVD's or buying loads of flash cards and adaptors and selling them on mass for a big profit just will never sit well with me, especially when there is no skill involved and it's purely for one persons profit and benefit. I could do the same, anyone could, without even liking the Amiga or even spending much time helping. So I guess jealousy comes into it sadly if I'm being totally honest.

I don't know this person and in different circumstances I might be happy to see them offer a service, but individuals using a communities efforts for their own gain without disclosure, input or communication to that community is not going to feel right regardless of the hypocrisy.

alexh · 14 March 2010, 23:10

If I am unable to profit from illegal acts I don't see why anyone else should be able to either

FOL · 16 March 2010, 15:08

Check this guy out, hes ripping wepl off.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/A1200-4-gig-CF...item20aff62aeb

Hes suppling HDD with full WHDLoad key.

TCD · 16 March 2010, 15:14

I have a Deja Vu... Before I grab my torch and join the witch hunt, does he actually state that he includes a WHDLoad key?

FOL · 16 March 2010, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

I have a Deja Vu... Before I grab my torch and join the witch hunt, does he actually state that he includes a WHDLoad key?

No, but says its the full version, that implies the key is given.

So there is no "does he actually state". If he doesnt supply the key why say "FULL VERSION OF WHDLOAD"

seuden · 16 March 2010, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosser on eBay

Whdload is the full version!

There ya go.

EDIT: Also, does he have the right to sell the kickstarts?

Btw, I totally agree with alexh.

TCD · 16 March 2010, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

No, but says its the full version, that implies the key is given.

So there is no "does he actually state". If he doesnt supply the key why say "FULL VERSION OF WHDLOAD"

I see. Well, guess someone should write Bert a PM then.

Galahad/FLT · 16 March 2010, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

Check this guy out, hes ripping wepl off.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/A1200-4-gig-CF...item20aff62aeb

Hes suppling HDD with full WHDLoad key.

Reported to Ebay.

Would suggest others do the same.

Just a bloody chancer making money off of others peoples efforts (oh the irony!)

Zetr0 · 16 March 2010, 15:40

hmmm,

meh! buy it / ignore it or report it..... as you wish....

@bloodwych

y'know my friend, if you made a nice 4GB Classic Workbench on CF card + adapter

even if i had to have workbench disks for validation and provide my own WHDLoad key - I'd pay upto £35 to you =D

I can imagine it in a nice box with nice sticker on the card 'n everything =D

FOL · 16 March 2010, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Reported to Ebay.

Would suggest others do the same.

Just a bloody chancer making money off of others peoples efforts (oh the irony!)

I emailed bert.

From the looks of his previous auctions, he has sold some. Maybe with same stuff on, who knows.

fitzsteve · 16 March 2010, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

hmmm,

meh! buy it / ignore it or report it..... as you wish....

@bloodwych

y'know my friend, if you made a nice 4GB Classic Workbench on CF card + adapter

even if i had to have workbench disks for validation and provide my own WHDLoad key - I'd pay upto £35 to you =D

I can imagine it in a nice box with nice sticker on the card 'n everything =D

Thats actually a superb idea! It would just be a case of providing the files from the .hdf on a CF card and then when you install it into the Amiga it asks for the workbench disks for validation! Genius

No copyrights breached....

Zetr0 · 16 March 2010, 16:00

one thing some seem to forget -

it could be a legitimate WHDLoad key...

Although unlikely these could be licenses he bought in order to re-sell with the kit.

This being the case, the only thing thats not legit is the games.... but hey... thats splitting hairs eh?

14 March 2010, 18:14	#1
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Ebay pimps making a profit out of the scene Here we go again; another day, another person making a profit out of other peoples work: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Amiga-1200-4GB...#ht_2288wt_907 Nice of him to mention where he downloading everything. So no credit AT ALL to where it all came from - he must have just done it himself yes? And £40??? If he credited a few places and offered a service for a modest fee, I wouldn't be so bothered. It's the fact that ANYONE here on this board can do what this person is doing – it’s SOOOO EASY - and they put more effort into the community for free so perhaps could do this more deservingly. This guy probably has done sweet FA to help with the community and is in it purely for the profit rather than helping people out. If I'm wrong, then I apologise. If it's someone here, then own up and lets go through the wrongs and rights. Just gets me angry when people stroll into a community, download other peoples work and sell it with no credit or asking. Just in it for a quick buck.

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14 March 2010, 18:24	#2
DH Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Might as well be WORK :( Age: 56 Posts: 4,110	Workbench disks (even if modified) are still copyrighted. Report it.

14 March 2010, 18:41	#4
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Just to point out, this guy has sold 7 of these already - that's £280. Take away fees and hardware, he's making quite a lot of money - say £140 so far?

14 March 2010, 18:42	#5
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	well there seems to be a market for them as he`s sold 7 shame that they don`t get any wb disks, Still it comes down to who owns wb perhapse we could point some copyright owners his way and see if he is breaking the law as it be really nice if Bloodwych could release his classic wb`s with WB already set up

14 March 2010, 19:14	#6
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	The thing is, I'm not a copyright police agency who hounds any infringement down with a ruthless attitude. I wouldn't care if someone is selling their Amiga hard drive with Workbench/ClassicWB whatever on it - doesn't bother me. It's the fact that someone is producing something like this or DVD's on mass purely for a large profit, not for love of the community. They didn't write the slaves, create the packs, they didn't write the software they use to do the task (like WinUAE), they didn't discuss it with the community or offer anything that we know of in return. Just download -> copy -> sell. Easy, and profitable. I'd much rather see those funds go to better causes in the community. It also hurts places like Amigakit who sell these things in a legitimate setting.

14 March 2010, 20:28	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	The item appears to have been removed. Post the user name of the seller to avoid.

14 March 2010, 20:54	#8
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	I'm not usually into these copyright issues, since they're surrounded by a lot hypocrisy if we're being honest here. The company who currently owns the right to WB 3.0 has a legal right to sue, of course. I don't even remember who does own WB 3.0. Licensors of same may report him. But there is a bit of a double moral standard in the Amiga and retro communities. I'd say the majority of the people running WB 3.1 lack a set of WB 3.1 disks. At the same time, those CRIMINALS#$%^&! probably have a set of WB 3.0 disks, 3 Amigas, and have supported the community strongly by upgrading their old beasts. My conscience is pretty clear - I have 9 Amigas, and even more sets of original Workbench disks, and a bunch of extra original kickstarts left over from upgrades. At the same time, one of my 12 or so kickstart sets is a 'burned EPROM!!'. I committed this hinous crime mainly because I wanted to upgrade quickly and not wait for getting it shipped from abroad. At the same time, my aura is blackened by the fact that I have about 500 disks with copied games - most came with the Amigas I bought second hand and are used when I need a blank, but probably 60 disks with or without read errors are still left from my sinful teenage days when I didn't know to pay 30 GBP each for them. I do own software originals, I do. But they are kind of few and far between in the diskbox. I think this story goes kinda like this for almost every Amiga lover. The double standard I think lies in pointing the finger at someone making the slightest bit of money off the Amiga. This also seems to plague those who truly support the Amiga with hardware and software that they own licenses to, I'm afraid. So you get a double double standard backfiring on them, righteous believers think they make too money and they would rather fuck the Amiga for cheaper than to be "held ransom with their pricing gun at their temple". That approach is not for me to say anything about, I spend a lot of time and money on my Amigas and sometimes but rarely do the same. I'd rather buy this guy's product than be ripped off by some store selling the CF card, pay 6 GBP for the itty bitty cable, and spending ages (if I were a new user) getting it set up well and working. If him making 14 GBP off this will make the old Amiga in the cupboard so good a new user will use it every day again, then it will help the community by getting one more Amiga 'online'. This is a big obstacle to overcome for many I think, maybe this will wet his appetite enough to buy upgrades from Amigakit, Vesalia etc. Far be it to defend some unknown on eBay, but it's certainly not a rip-off price either. And it helps people get Amigas running. That's important. WHDload is of course cracked copies of originals, sold at a (very low) price. I don't think the eBay guy is including a WHDload key in the price, though. Either way, selling an installed CF card and offering freely downloadable games are copying originals. It seems dubious in the extreme to accuse someone of ripping off the WHDload guys by installing it on a card. I use WHDload (more criminality!!), I don't think it's the end of the world if I pirate something that nobody sells ("can't be bought anywhere"). For the stuff that CAN, those who care can try to 'funnel' new Amiga users to the companies that sell them, to keep them making money and support the Amiga. But at this stage in the game, I'm for other ways of making Amiga and its companies and people in general prosper and grow, too. If 1000 knowledgable Amiga guys can start companies and make money, selling hardware, software, books, or stickers, the more alive the Amiga will be! Even copying software, cloning hardware, or cloning OSes Then let the rights owners sue if they want, or let them contact their 'resellers' with a really cheap licensing fee so more people make money off Amiga. And leave the moralizing to others, and ffs leave the newbies who just want their Amiga running again alone! Personally I would love to see the rights owners set up a sub-licensing fee framework for low-volume single-employee companies. Or the 3-4 companies (with admirable professionals supporting the Amiga) could set up a reseller contract or even a limited employee contract of sorts for the persons who after all only sells, what? 1, 5, 10, 20 burned kickstarts or installed CF cards a month? This is a problem, but not an impossibility. Until the day I die my only religion is that every problem can be solved, or it's not a problem. Bloodwych, I know you're just expressing your love and respect for this great computer, but 15 years after Amiga owners last did anything for the community, it's time we let the rights owners be upset if they can be bothered, I think OK, end of heart outpour I also know I'm talking back to a moderator, but I only put this effort into the wording/exaggerations because I disagree with the general moralizing - I hope I've made it clear I'm for rights owners, companies like Amigakit, and even dirty scoundrels making a fistful of dollars from getting more Amigas running.

14 March 2010, 21:31	#9
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	You bring up many good points Photon, and I've already given my take on it above. I'm not a letter of the law person, especially so long after the Amiga's death and for reasons you state. It's just the "on mass" profiters that hits a nerve. Burning DVD's or buying loads of flash cards and adaptors and selling them on mass for a big profit just will never sit well with me, especially when there is no skill involved and it's purely for one persons profit and benefit. I could do the same, anyone could, without even liking the Amiga or even spending much time helping. So I guess jealousy comes into it sadly if I'm being totally honest. I don't know this person and in different circumstances I might be happy to see them offer a service, but individuals using a communities efforts for their own gain without disclosure, input or communication to that community is not going to feel right regardless of the hypocrisy.

14 March 2010, 23:10	#10
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	If I am unable to profit from illegal acts I don't see why anyone else should be able to either

16 March 2010, 15:08	#11
FOL PSPUAE DEV Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales / UK Age: 45 Posts: 5,999	Check this guy out, hes ripping wepl off. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/A1200-4-gig-CF...item20aff62aeb Hes suppling HDD with full WHDLoad key.

16 March 2010, 15:14	#12
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,522	I have a Deja Vu... Before I grab my torch and join the witch hunt, does he actually state that he includes a WHDLoad key?

16 March 2010, 15:40	#17
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	hmmm, meh! buy it / ignore it or report it..... as you wish.... @bloodwych y'know my friend, if you made a nice 4GB Classic Workbench on CF card + adapter even if i had to have workbench disks for validation and provide my own WHDLoad key - I'd pay upto £35 to you =D I can imagine it in a nice box with nice sticker on the card 'n everything =D

16 March 2010, 16:00	#20
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	one thing some seem to forget - it could be a legitimate WHDLoad key... Although unlikely these could be licenses he bought in order to re-sell with the kit. This being the case, the only thing thats not legit is the games.... but hey... thats splitting hairs eh?

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