English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 22 October 2010, 09:00   #1
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,333
Problems with 'upgraded to' Apollo 1260

Please read the whole post carefully before posting, thanks!

I bought bebek's Apollo 1260-upgraded 1240... It looks very good, no broken traces, MECH chips are soldered, the CPU is soldered, new EPROM is soldered, crystal is soldered (50MHz), battery removed, the 47µF cap is replaced.. CLKEN is set to GND which is correct for a 50MHz 060 with a 50MHz crystal. Everything looks great.

Although it does not operate great! I know bebek sold it as broken, so I was fully aware of it.. I just want to see what I (or others) can do with it.
It does boot, but it crash if I fiddle around and open and close drawers. It's just a matter of time. The CPU doesn't get much hot at all, so I really doubt it's a heat problem! Also worth to mention is that I use a great PSU of 300W and stable voltage rails. I've tried to remove the floppy drive and boot from HD - same. Tried to remove the HD and boot from WB 3.1 floppy: same.
Also tried to remove the 32MB RAM stick and the RAM jumper, still the same behavior.

I've tried to replace SetPatch with the newest one, no go. I've even tried to do a completely fresh WB 3.1 install, it's all the same. Tried another A1200 (1D.4 with timing fixes), exactly the same behavior.
If I install the Apollo libs (68040.library dummy, 68o4o.library and 68060.library) then WB won't boot at all, I get a forever black screen.
If I removed them, it boots. If I install the Phase5 libraries, it boots. But it still crashes and behaves weirdly. SysInfo says "USE)0" in the CPU/MHz box, which is a sign of something being corrupt. ShowConfig shows 68040 (which is normal, outdated software)...
If I run SysInfo and calculate speed, I get 26 mips or something, but it always crashes at "CALCULATING MFLOPS"...

Oh, and SysInfo says there's no FPU (it says there's an MMU but that it's not in use)

The CPU is an:

Code:
XC68060RC50A

Q2E31F
QEEQ0532A
MALAYSIA
Is it really from week 32 '05?! It looks very shiny and it doesn't get hot at all...
CPU60 shows "68060LC rev4", I guess this is a china clone, sigh.

My guess is that the CPU is broken... I might ask around on the boards if someone can desolder the CPU for me, then test my other 2x 060 in a good card then solder in a good one...

The voltage regulator measures 3.28v. According to Zetr0 some older 060s might need some more juice than 3.3v to prevent current leak, but this CPU seems to be from 2005?!

All help is appreciated. All info too!

Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 22 October 2010 at 09:21.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 09:32   #2
lambrettadave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: south shields
Posts: 133
I have apollo 1240/40 and sysinfo say that on my card the fpu and mnu are not in use either are these 1240's meant to have a built in fpu or not however if there is one in how could i turn in on

Dave
lambrettadave is online now  
Old 22 October 2010, 12:05   #3
zipper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: finland
Posts: 1,568
They are in use when you put them to do something - for instance like rom to fast program, Shapeshifter MMU driver etc. And if you do not have FPU, SysInfo doesn't give you mflops speed IIRC.
zipper is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 12:08   #4
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,333
Hmmm... So maybe the Amiga kind of thinks I have an FPU, but the FPU is broken - thus it crash?

Every time I press the "SPEED" button in SysInfo, the mips part goes ok, but while the mflops part is on the Amiga resets and gives me a software error.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 13:25   #5
Zetr0
Ya' like it Retr0?
Zetr0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 45
Posts: 9,768
@8bitbusby

As I mentioned before - this processor needs more juice - somthing like 3.6v and active cooling.

Its quite likely this CPU had a hard life before it got to be put in an amiga, btw - with apollo hardware dont use the phase 5 drivers - you are asking for trouble - you need to use the apollo drivers.

its very important not to mix drivers or you will end up without hair again like last time.
Zetr0 is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 16:16   #6
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,945
The problem with the fault you describe is that it could be hardware or software, so do the sensible thing and eliminate the one thing you can at this point being software.

On the hardware, random crashes are going to be a contact problem or heat as Zetr0 describes, momentary loss of power, loss of clock / contacts or similar will cause crashes and that would be what I would be looking at first off.
Loedown is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 17:03   #7
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,333
It's definitely not a heat problem, as I said it doesn't get very hot at all. An old 060 would burn my finger in comparison. Also the CPU is from 2005 it sure should do fine on 3.3v as many other old 060s do on Apollos?

I've looked carefully on every solder point, they're all great. The oscillator is soldered to the PCB and I know it works.

I still think it's the CPU that's broken.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
@8bitbusby

Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 22 October 2010 at 17:17.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 18:06   #8
cosmicfrog
The 1 who ribbits
cosmicfrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: leek, Staffs, UK
Age: 52
Posts: 3,555
Send a message via MSN to cosmicfrog
just because you think something should behave the way you think Dos`t necessary mean it will

I`d go with zetros suggestion

as a lay man 3.28v is 0.02v under the 3.3v

now if zetro is right u going have to find another 0.32v to bring it upto 3.6v

anyway after all that my question is what are the tolerances and amp rating of theses 060`s ??
cosmicfrog is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 21:15   #9
Zetr0
Ya' like it Retr0?
Zetr0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 45
Posts: 9,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy View Post
Also the CPU is from 2005 it sure should do fine on 3.3v as many other old 060s do on Apollos?
As I said before - not all processors are created - equally - especially when it comes to the XC series of 060.

the XC's are documented as needing MORE power than the MC varients - hence why I belive a regulation of 3.28v is not enough to keep the processor stable.

you have a couple of options at this point my friend.


1. Ramp up the VCore to 3.5volts (cheapest option here)
2. replace the socket and buy a new MC varient 060


but before you do all this - let test the software

boot to cli and run some Safe CLI programs and see when it crashes - if its repeatable then its probably software based
Zetr0 is offline  
Old 22 October 2010, 21:22   #10
Zetr0
Ya' like it Retr0?
Zetr0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 45
Posts: 9,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfrog View Post
....
anyway after all that my question is what are the tolerances and amp rating of theses 060`s ??
This depends on the rated frequency BUT, the 060@50 is from 3.3v to 4.7v (for the faster 100mhz LC varients)

thats what the 060 spec sheet says anyway.
Zetr0 is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 10:55   #11
Dimlow
Likes to be thought of as
Dimlow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kent,UK
Age: 50
Posts: 529
Send a message via MSN to Dimlow Send a message via Yahoo to Dimlow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
This depends on the rated frequency BUT, the 060@50 is from 3.3v to 4.7v (for the faster 100mhz LC varients)

thats what the 060 spec sheet says anyway.
iv have never seen that. what page ?
Dimlow is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 13:33   #12
Cosmos
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: France
Posts: 655
Page 18 if I remember right...
Cosmos is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 17:51   #13
Dimlow
Likes to be thought of as
Dimlow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kent,UK
Age: 50
Posts: 529
Send a message via MSN to Dimlow Send a message via Yahoo to Dimlow
you mean this one..


@Comos you have just been added to my ignore list
Dimlow is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 18:03   #14
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,333
??? What is going on here? Please don't start a fight, and I see no reason for answering Cosmos like that. If it was a friendly irony then I will rest my case.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 18:28   #15
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy View Post
Code:
XC68060RC50A
Q2E31F
QEEQ0532A
MALAYSIA
Any chance of a quality in focus photograph?

I'm pretty sure that is a fake 060. Possibly a remarked 040 (which explains why it doesn't work as it would need 2x crystal freq and 5v).

E31F is an 040 Mask code. Don't think there is an 060 with that code. They certainly did not make any XC chips in week 32 2005!

Might be able to tell by looking at the long number along the edge. Let us see the photograph.

Last edited by alexh; 23 October 2010 at 18:35.
alexh is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 18:40   #16
Cosmos
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: France
Posts: 655
It's Cosmos, my dear dilow


Page 12-1 :

Maximum ratings
Supply Voltage Vcc -0.3v to 4.0v
Input Voltage Vin -0.5v to Vcc+4
Cosmos is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 20:13   #17
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Any chance of a quality in focus photograph?

I'm pretty sure that is a fake 060. Possibly a remarked 040 (which explains why it doesn't work as it would need 2x crystal freq and 5v).

E31F is an 040 Mask code. Don't think there is an 060 with that code. They certainly did not make any XC chips in week 32 2005!

Might be able to tell by looking at the long number along the edge. Let us see the photograph.
The CPU does have the extra 060 pins! You know, the inner ones... It looks very genuine. The only thing that made me suspicious was the arrow to the left instead of a circle, and that the core in the middle kind of bulges up a *little* bit.
Remember, I got 26 mips from SysInfo! And the CPU doesn't get hot at all. I doubt it's a rebadged 040.

Here's a picture of the top of the CPU (the color is kind of messed up because of mobile phone camera, but it looks exactly like an old 060 in color and texture):
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 20:36   #18
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,236
s23328-002 is an 060 number. People who fake chips rarely change that number. Plus the software reports the chip as an 060 and MIPs etc.

So, it looks like it had the markings changed at the top of the chip for some reason? Perhaps to hide that it was an EC or LC with no working FPU? Who knows. If you ever discover that those are legal markings for an 060 (I very much doubt it) then I'd like to know how and why. 0532 is definitely the date code indicating 2005, week 32. So strange.

I'd be interested to see if it is reported as a REV1, maybe it is a very very early one?

Use the software on the Cyberstorm/Blizzard system disk (a program called cpu060) it reads the PCR (Processor Configuration Register) and will report which version of 060 it is.

Last edited by alexh; 23 October 2010 at 20:42.
alexh is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 20:38   #19
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,333
Good call. I'm going to grab some IPA and see if I can remove the X... The X kind of looks unfitting
I wonder how they would have removed the E or L in the first place... Man, I doubt it. There's like no scratches or anything, must've been a skilled badboy.

EDIT: Yep, fake. I managed to remove the layer of paint on top. Now it looks even more like an old 060 on the color (I was wrong, it DID look different).. There's no text under the layer though! :O

Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 23 October 2010 at 20:50.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 23 October 2010, 20:43   #20
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 12,236
The EC does not come where the X is...

alexh is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apollo 1260 to a 1240 problems Kitch support.Hardware 26 15 December 2012 08:17
Selling my fully upgraded A600 (Apollo 630) fitzsteve MarketPlace 15 29 July 2010 13:17
apollo 1260 problems Nikolaj_sofus support.Hardware 43 18 March 2010 10:20
Possible trade, Apollo 1260 @ 80mhz for Blizz 1260 Molcos Swapshop 3 13 November 2009 17:13
Problems with ClassicWB AdvSP and my Apollo 1260 BusterHell project.ClassicWB 9 15 April 2008 21:05

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09204 seconds with 15 queries