EAB/Lemon Super League 2017: Round 13 - Amegas

[JanciB]

26,949

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by ED-209

There's a lot of rubbish arkanoid clones released prior to '90 and this one is somewhere in the middle. Full framerate and decent size playfield but the gfx are pretty rough and controls seem a bit 'off'. For pre '90 I think behind arkanoid, giganoid would be next best, followed perhaps by crystal hammer

I always laugh when somebody calls there Arkanoid clones, as really The Woz created Breakout way back, and even he knew to make a solid bat. I mean a bat is a bat, and if you hit anything to any part of the bat, it should rebound. With this game, the maker took the concept literally, and made the top line of pixels the bat. Its still better than pong. Ive never ever played crystal hammer, but I know there must be good examples out there. My only suggestion is we know Arkanoid is at least good and fun, so hopefully the next time we are in the mood for one of these, someone will vote for the sequel, Revenge of D'oh!!

And the collecting objects with a stuck ball thing.. I don't think it should be allowed at all, massive scores would follow and the leaderboard would blow out - not to mention it's a crap way to play

Looks like you were right, the points have now halved. Capehorn has tried hard so hats off to him. But if you want a fairer system, say the word, and we'll change it for next year. Blowout scores dont have to affect anything, in fact we could have points depending on player position in the table. I just want everyone to have fun playing in the compo, and I dont enjoy to grumble - when, someone has done really well, yet because it affects others scores. Well done capehorn!

[Graham Humphrey]

Finally I'm back in the game with a slightly naff old TV, but it will do for the time being. This is my first proper go - it's a bit quirky but I found it moderately enjoyable. I like the idea of having to press the right mouse button to activate the power-ups, it gives it a (very slight) tactical element. (No thanks to the mouse-controlled high score table input though, and my comedy spelling error.)


11,359

[Harry]

5.992

I like only one Breakout game (up to now): Unicum from the Atari800. It has constant ball speed in every angle (but the ball gets faster if you play too long), fair collision, you have really an influence on the angle the ball rebounces from the bat, a level ends when there are only about 5-10% of stones left, and there is a good range of extras, and you keep even the extra (except next level) until you die or collect another extra (also on level completion).
If you have the time to look at it, I recommend this one.

[vagrant]

73,874
Made it to level 6 using the "stuck ball until last brick" technique.

Originally Posted by harry

Unicum from the Atari800

With a name like that, everyone should enjoy it

Originally Posted by lifeschool

But if you want a fairer system, say the word, and we'll change it for next year. Blowout scores dont have to affect anything, in fact we could have points depending on player position in the table. I just want everyone to have fun playing in the compo, and I dont enjoy to grumble - when, someone has done really well, yet because it affects others scores. Well done capehorn!

Yeh.. I think it should change, and don't think many (if any?) would disagree. I think the current system can negatively effect incentive for the casual player when the players at the top are so far ahead (deservedly so).
Of course I feel like a hypocrite saying this, since I voted for it in the first place

[linesmachine]

Originally Posted by ED-209

73,874
Yeh.. I think it should change, and don't think many (if any?) would disagree. I think the current system can negatively effect incentive for the casual player when the players at the top are so far ahead (deservedly so).
Of course I feel like a hypocrite saying this, since I voted for it in the first place

I wouldn't feel bad about wanting to change it, regardless of if you voted for it or not. Only in competitive play can we ever understand the true implications of a rule change.

I also support a move back towards straight points for positions. A few times I've been second or third and got bugger all points.

[john4p]

86,6088

Crap way to play indeed.


P.S. Regarding the scoring change I'd advocate adding minimum guaranteed points to the current system.
E.g. 16 points minimum for 2nd place, but if it's 18 pts with the current formula then it's gonna be 18 pts. But if it'd be 11 points with the current formula it'd mean 16 points for 2nd place.

[capehorn]

Can I just clarify what rules we are playing too? I dont mind competing with you all for top spot but I just want to be sure about what is considered fair and what isn't.

I have happily used the stuck ball feature, I collect the ball, take about a second to clear away any nearby balloons and then click to launch, I have never kept the ball for so long that it autolaunched. Are other people keeping the ball for longer (as long as possible?) and is that considered a fair tactic? Are we also using the 'you should always make a reasonable attempt to hit a block rather than miss to try to stay alive as long as possible' rule?

[john4p]

Originally Posted by capehorn

I have happily used the stuck ball feature, I collect the ball, take about a second to clear away any nearby balloons and then click to launch, I have never kept the ball for so long that it autolaunched. Are other people keeping the ball for longer (as long as possible?) and is that considered a fair tactic?

I have often kept it for the maximum time which is about four seconds. But I also often release it earlier to avoid it being deflected by enemies. I think it's fair but it's certainly not the intended way to play this game.

Originally Posted by capehorn

Are we also using the 'you should always make a reasonable attempt to hit a block rather than miss to try to stay alive as long as possible' rule?

Of course or else it'd be leeching.

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by john4p

Crap way to play indeed.

And yet you still struggle on and think you can make some sort of moral judgment on what's leeching and what isn't. Funny that.

Hey! Forget the scoring system for a moment, everyone (although I think John's point about the 'capping' aspect is extremely valid). Maybe this sort of thing - where the rules are exploited to the very edges without being classed as cheating - doesn't help. Perhaps the constant insistence on voting for games which aren't naturally - or even feasibly - suitable (looking forward to Mega Lo Mania, Powermonger and Cannon Fodder next season), are impenetrable for a lot of people (F1GP anyone?) or are just plain bad doesn't help either. And if John wins we'll end up playing Harlequin next round, not a game known for its suitability for a competition and God only knows how bad the Knockout tournament's going to be this year. (Oh and two Mystery Rounds where we end up with... Benefactor and Harlequin, those little-known releases nobody has ever heard of.) No wonder the whole thing's dying on its arse. I mean it's just boring isn't it?

[john4p]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

And yet you still struggle on and think you can make some sort of moral judgment on what's leeching and what isn't. Funny that.

It's leeching when you can get points infinitely which isn't the case with our agreement. But yeah, I think playing like that just doesn't feel right. I'd say let's invalidate ED's, capehorn's and my scores that are above 30k (ED's 25k and my 14k scores were done the classic way).
Honestly I was waiting for you to have a final say regarding the rules, but you didn't. So playing "this way" was the only option to keep up with capehorn.

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Benefactor and Harlequin, those little-known releases nobody has ever heard of.

I had never played them so they were/are (Harlequin) a mystery to me.

[lifeschool]

Having thought about this, I'd say is very easy to come up with a solution to the scoring at the end of the round, when we've all hammered it to death. Its never easy for the mods to predict what the round will turn out like, to cover all eventualities, and sometimes only the best players can make use of tricks and tips to generate standout scores.

I think it would be good if Graham had stepped in earlier, but if you remember with F1GP, I changed everyones scores after the round closed in order to satisfy a scoring dispute - which in the end didnt change the scores.

For Amegas, we know the screen you made it to by the background pattern of the high score table, so it would be possible to award x100,000 per level.

Level
1. Blue Circle Pattern - 0 points (Harry)
2. Red Strip - 100,000 (ED-209)
3. Green Streaks - 200,000 (Graham)
4. Orange Triangles - 300,000 (John)
5. Light Blue Hexagons - 400,000 (Janci B)
6. Green with yellow feathers - 500,000
7. Green with yellow streaks - 600,000 (capehorn)
8. Red/Orange Circle and Blue - 700,000
9. Green Tiles with red snake - 800,000
10 Red and Green Tartan - 900,000
11. Scorpions - 1,000,000
12. Blue Circle Pattern (repeat) - 1,100,000

The colours repeat after level 11, but perhaps thats not important. The order in the leaderboard would change, and capehorn would then be leading the round.

As far as the Mystery Round, there is a possible rule change noted about this in the mods thread, where only games below 50 Lemon votes would be considered eligible next year. The Mystery round is still a mystery, and I never would have predicted the current outcome, which may still be subject to change, depending on the above.

[capehorn]

The random skip level tokens are a problem with that suggestion (FWIW I never use them as they don't help you score points)

[vagrant]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

For Amegas, we know the screen you made it to by the background pattern of the high score table

Not if you take a screenshot of the table during attract mode - it is always the red background

[vagrant]

Like John said my 25k score was done without 'mr sticky bat', so if you want revert my score back to that then no problem.
The round is a bit of a flop sure.. but if we can get through it without killing each other, then it is not a complete failure

[liviux76]

11147

Found the time to play a bit yesterday... I don't think I'll play more but it is better than nothing...

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by ED-209

The round is a bit of a flop sure.. but if we can get through it without killing each other, then it is not a complete failure

Congratulations liviux76 on being our 20th player this round. That makes Amegas the joint-third most popular game of the entire season, behind Rick Dangerous 2 with 21 players, and Pac-Mania with 22.

[Graham Humphrey]

Don't forget Apidya which had 25 players - our highest ever, in fact But it's been a really good turnout in the end, against all odds, and the highest in the second half of the season by a comfortable margin.

I think to go through at this late stage and retrospectively disallow people's scores is perhaps not totally practical and I don't really know who's done what while they're playing. All I ask is people make the moderators' lives a bit easier and don't irk other players by keeping within the spirit and not bending the rules as far as they can without actually breaking them, and then trying to tell other people what those limits are and that they shouldn't go beyond them. It's all a bit daft really and doesn't achieve anything.

[Graham Humphrey]

20,999

[vagrant]

Of course I was only referring to the scoring controversy when I said the round was a bit of a flop.
By far the best aspect of this round has been the turnout