Babylonian Twins - An Amiga game?!

[gklinger]

Coming to World of Commodore again, Syd? I'm hoping there will be more Amiga content this year even if I have to provide it myself.

[TCD]

Hi Sydric & Murtadha,

welcome to the EAB. It's great to hear that the game still exsists and is playable Awesome work on the graphics Murtadha
Take your time to consider releasing it Sydric. It'll be cool to see the demo of that fine game

[viddi]

I´d pay for it, too!



Glad to see this thread going so well.

Originally Posted by Sydric

I'd like to introduce myself--my name is Syd Bolton and I run the Personal Computer Museum in Brantford, ON Canada (http://www.pcmuseum.ca).

I am also the president of LEGENDARY DESIGN TECHNOLOGIES, the company that actually owns the rights to this game.

First of all, let me assure you -- the game is REAL. We never released it because the environment of the Amiga had deteriorated so badly that the game would have never made it commercially.

I do have the disk images--in fact, I remember not that long ago I definitely created an Amiga of the demo.

I am torn about releasing the full game - but the demo I most definitely would not have an issue with.

I can also assure you that this is one awesome game. Right now, the only place you can play it is at the Personal Computer Museum, which is part of the charm of coming here and trying out new things. Kids that are comfortable with Mario seem to have little difficulty, although there are some advanced tricks in this game that take time to figure out.

Anyways, sounds like there is a lot of interest---if you have any other questions, let me know.

Hi Guys

Thanks all for the positive feedback about Babylonian Twins, it is great to see such a strong Amiga community around till this day. My name is Rabah Shihab, I am the author, lead developer and copyright owner (Registered at the Library of Congress: TXu000756385) for Babylonian Twins.

I developed the game with my friends Murtadha and Mahir in Baghdad between 1993 and 1994. I contacted many Amiga publishers at that time but all refused to deal with us because there was an economic sanctions on Iraq. The only positive response I received was from Syd Bolton of Legendary Design Technologies at that time. We eventually signed an agreement with Legendary to publish the game but they never published the game, and the more dad part is that we never got a response (positive or negative) from Syd since that time despite our many attempts to reach him. We considered our agreement void since that time. Syd has no control over this game. Syd, please contact me at rabahshihab at yahoo dot ca to discuss this.

I currently live in Vancouver, BC and I still have the source code (MC68000 assembly), graphics, music, sounds, and binaries (CD32 Amiga DOS format) for the game. The game is complete and my brother posted videos of the 5 stages on YouTube last year. I have considered many times to port the game to the PC but never got the time. I am recently considering porting the game to the iPhone amd I am trying to find a financial sponsor for this project.

If you have other ideas on now get this game out to the rest of the world, please contact me. There are stories behind the development of this game, from the limited hardware resources (no HD, only 512km of memory, using TV instead of a monitor...etc), to the frequent power interruptions, to the very hot weather (over 50 degree in the summer), to the sad responses we received from publishers because we were in Baghdad, to the lack for technical resources (books, internet, bulletin boards, developers community...etc) to build such game in the first place.

I will see if I can publish a demo of the game for the loyal Amiga community to the enjoy. I will keep you posted.


Regards,
Rabah Shihab
rabahshihab at yahoo dot ca

[Steve]

The plot thickens...

Its better than TV this!

[viddi]

Hi rabahs and welcome to the EAB!

Originally Posted by rabahs

I still have the source code (MC68000 assembly), graphics, music, sounds, and binaries (CD32 Amiga DOS format) for the game.

I have considered many times to port the game to the PC but never got the time. I am recently considering porting the game to the iPhone amd I am trying to find a financial sponsor for this project.

Good news! So this gem isn´t lost at all.

You want to port this game to the iPhone and need a financial sponsor? Why not sell the Amiga version at a reasonable price?

I´d like to see a CD version with printed booklet and inlay.

[whitegiant89]

Waiting with baited breath for the demo to be released ;-)

[Retro-Nerd]

Welcome on EAB Rabbah. Good to see that you could clarify some things about the game.

Just like viddi i would like to see a commercial Amiga version with manual & box, but i assume this isn't profitable enough these days.

[blade002]

Originally Posted by Murtadha

Thanks for the complement guys ....I live in Melbourne in the Southbank , I arrived here 8 months ago , I was living in Dubai the last ten years . and yes I would love to visit the Retro Event in Melbourne this year.

Excellent Murtadha! Great to have you here in Melbourne, its an absolute honour, they should probably build a monument dedicated to you.. lol

Anyway, go to these websites to get some info on the Retro Event and introduce yourself !!.. The organiser of the event was actually thinking about canceling it for this year, but i think i have swayed his decision, which was mainly due to lack of numbers.. Last year only about 12 guys turned up to it ( it was the 1st one ), so this year we are trying to make it bigger and better.

Where its being held-:
http://retrobrad.com/expo/

Where you can make contact and introduce yourself-:
http://retrobrad.com/phpBB2/index.php

I will most likely be bringing to the event my A1200 with WHDLoad installed ( as i did last year )

There were 3 Amiga's there last year.. x2 A1200's and x1 MiniMig.

Originally Posted by rabahs

Hi GuysI will see if I can publish a demo of the game for the loyal Amiga community to the enjoy. I will keep you posted.

A very interesting read rabahs, and i like i have already said as have others, we are more than happy to pay for the full version of this game and of course the price is entirely up to you, but i think you can rest assured that no matter how much you ask we are all up for paying whatever it is you put forward

Its about time you guys got some financial return for all the hard work under extreme conditions you subjected yourselves to, to produce a phenomenal piece of software

[Steve]

Originally Posted by blade002

A very interesting read rabahs, and i like i have already said as have others, we are more than happy to pay for the full version of this game and of course the price is entirely up to you, but i think you can rest assured that no matter how much you ask we are all up for paying whatever it is you put forward.

Hahahahah! What a ridiculous thing to say! I'm sure there is some amount you wouldn't pay for a 13 year old game no matter how good it is. The developers have nothing to lose from releasing the game to the community. Otherwise it will be consigned to history and forgotten. How about setting up a sort of Paypal donation thing once its released like WinUAE has. If you like the game then make a donation. But that begs the question who does the money go to, the developer or the publisher or both?? Probably just simpler to release it for free or not to release it at all.

[blade002]

Originally Posted by Steve

Hahahahah! What a ridiculous thing to say! I'm sure there is some amount you wouldn't pay for a 13 year old game no matter how good it is. The developers have nothing to lose from releasing the game to the community. Otherwise it will be consigned to history and forgotten. How about setting up a sort of Paypal donation thing once its released like WinUAE has. If you like the game then make a donation. But that begs the question who does the money go to, the developer or the publisher or both?? Probably just simpler to release it for free or not to release it at all.

Hey mate, all i am trying to do is do the right thing by the developers, because as you can already read they pretty much slogged their guts out to make the damn thing and no matter how time passes the hard work still happened. Its like when someones dies, in 100 years no one is going to give a shit that you ever lived because no-one is going to be around to remember or know you ever lived but you did live and your own life was anything but trivial and was important to you just as this game was important to the developers.

Sure its only a game, but its very hard work that should be rewarded! Yeah, sure i know it would be more complicated to compensate all in involved, but you shouldn't just say .. hey "give me the game" because its 14 years old!! .. you do the "right" thing first and whatever that person decides they decide.

The PayPal idea is a good one, but it is up for them to decide rather than try to decide for them, and i am quite sure they will be reasonable in what they ask ( if they were to ask ) given the great responses we have had from them thus far. Just showing appreciation.

Rabah and I have made contact---and despite what he says, my company does own the publishing rights to the Amiga version---I have the legal contract to prove it. It is true - as I MENTIONED -- the game never made it to market. I have no issue with him receiving money for the work he and his team did--so if people want to pay for it -- pay him, not me .... I'm not an unreasonable person. Just setting the record straight. He has possible future plans for the game, I have no claim or right to those --- so he may do whatever he wishes.

[DDNI]

As stated previously, I am willing to pay $5US for this 14year old NON MERCENARY game

It is ironic that 14 years after the game could have been launched we are willing to pay for the developers hard work...
Had it come out in 1995 I wager that 90% of us here would have sourced a cracked version, played it once and added it to the IMMENSE pile of other floppies that we hadn't paid the developers for....

[blade002]

Originally Posted by DDNI

It is ironic that 14 years after the game could have been launched we are willing to pay for the developers hard work...
Had it come out in 1995 I wager that 90% of us here would have sourced a cracked version, played it once and added it to the IMMENSE pile of other floppies that we hadn't paid the developers for....

Come to think of it, yes thats very very true, which kind of makes me a hypocrite

[viddi]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Just like viddi i would like to see a commercial Amiga version with manual & box, but i assume this isn't profitable enough these days.

I´d prefer a normal CD case. A CD-R could be used to cut down on costs.
But a professional printed inlay and booklet isn´t expensive anymore.

I´d love to help out with the design.

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by viddi

But a professional printed inlay and booklet isn´t expensive anymore.

Nicely printed CD-Rs aren't hard either in the age of printable CD-Rs (supported by many fairly standard printers) and Lightscribe (although the latter is still too slow to be practical).

[gklinger]

Originally Posted by Sydric

I also feel badly we never did get it released (just was not possible the way the Amiga was) and so Rabah and his team at Mesopotamia never got properly compensated for it.

Could you elaborate on why you never released it and why you never compensated the developers?

Originally Posted by rabahs

My name is Rabah Shihab

السلام عليكم

There are stories behind the development of this game, from the limited hardware resources (no HD, only 512km of memory, using TV instead of a monitor...etc), to the frequent power interruptions, to the very hot weather (over 50 degree in the summer), to the sad responses we received from publishers because we were in Baghdad, to the lack for technical resources (books, internet, bulletin boards, developers community...etc) to build such game in the first place.

At this point in time I'm actually more interested in hearing the stories behind the game than I am in actually playing it (playing it would be nice too). If you've got the time and are willing to talk about it, please do.

P.S. I'm sorry that you had to leave your homeland but I am glad that you ended up in Canada. That's +1 cool Amiga guys for us!

[cosmicfrog]

yipees the plot thickens and thickens
next time I`m in canada I might just vist that museum......

we might even get 2 demos, 1 from the publisher and 1 from the programmer

anyhow I`m glad we`ve got some new members and with special talents as well

Re: Babylonian Twins
Syd, I'm not a lawyer and I don’t even remember the details of the contract, all I know is that I was there and saw Rabah and Murtadha working day and night because they had only one Amiga, I saw them struggling with all hard life in crazy Baghdad under sanction and being creative and motivated despite all troubles that faced them dailly.
Money is not the issue here, all members of Mesopotamia are very well established now beyond shareware, it's more a morality issue especially from a fellow Canadian.
At the time when this game was done, we had hardly any contact with the outside world and we trusted you to take our efforts and creation that we are proud of to the outside world, instead, you took the game and didn’t even bother let us know why you didn’t publish it or offer any suggestions or alternatives, which was a big disappointment and a big hit for our moral. Imagine being boycotted by the whole world and under pressure inside your own country and you put all your efforts and hopes in one thing then feel betrayed and taken advantage of.
And now you are claiming that you have the full rights for the game? may I ask you what you did to earn those rights other than giving promises to the rightful owners who trusted you almost blindly? Very disappointing Syd very disappointing.

Re: Against the Kingdom of Death
Another game in the level of Shadow of the Beast was being developed by Mesopotamia Software, two huge stages were completed each is a full Amiga disk. The game was inspired by the epic of Gilgamesh. I was the designer and programmer and the graphics was done by 3 artists (Ali was the main artist and concept artist of the game and Murtadha and Nasr did the 2nd level). I still have the source code and the data but the running binary disk is not working anymore, I need to fix them with XCopy or something but I dont have the tools or the time for that.

Re: Mesopotamia Software today.
We are working on PS3 now as a contracting company and developers for PS3 and 360. You could find details about Mesopotamia here www.mesopotamia.ca , Amiga is mentioned more than once on our website, we will never forget!

[TCD]

Hi Auday,

welcome to the EAB It's nice to see the developers of this fine game here on the board.
Reading your post about about Babylonian Twins is a bit sad, because you worked so hard under that circumstances and never was given the proper credit (not to speak about salary) for your work I hope the reponse here shows that your work was not completely wasted and that we really appreciate what you did
Let's hope the game becomes available (either to buy or for free) so more people can enjoy playing it