Proposal for new A500 model config layout

[amilo3438]

The current Quickstart Configuration layout for A500 model looks a little messy in comparison to other model configuration layout ... see on pic. attached below.

The proposal would be to rearrange it to something maybe like below:
(instead of dash could be maybe made some small gaps)


1.2 ROM, OCS Agnus, 512KB Chip RAM
1.2 ROM, OCS Agnus, 512KB Chip RAM + 512KB Slow RAM
---------------------------------------------------
1.3 ROM, OCS Agnus, 512KB Chip RAM
1.3 ROM, OCS Agnus, 512KB Chip RAM + 512KB Slow RAM (most common)
---------------------------------------------------
1.3 ROM, ECS Agnus, 512KB Chip RAM + 512KB Slow RAM
1.3 ROM, ECS Agnus, 1MB Chip RAM
1.3 ROM, ECS Agnus, 1MB Chip RAM + 512KB Slow RAM


As you already noticed, I have also added a new config. with ECS Agnus 1mb + 0.5mb, as there exist some programs that need it f.e.:

At the Party (40k Intro) by Coma & Bigmama -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=295

Also, such configuration is probably nothing unusual to find on an newer A500 that was already delivered with 1mb chip ram and additionally expanded with 0.5mb slow ram.


ps.
Anyway, by mistake in current layout there is missing word "Agnus" at the most common configuration!

[Toni Wilen]

1M chip + 0.5 Slow is not possible without hardware hacks. It is extremely rare.
Quickstart config = commonly available configs and/or manufacturer defaults only.

Missing "Agnus" is not a bug. It is to keep string short enough.

Anyway, I don't think I'll bother, your use case is not common

[amilo3438]

a so, it was just a proposal ... stay calm!

EDIT: hm, just wondering ... is not "1.3 ROM, ECS Agnus, 1MB Chip RAM" also a hardware hack then!?

as proposed additional config. assume ECS Agnus 1MB Chip RAM + 0,5MB via a trapdoor?!

[Toni Wilen]

"Not calm" reply would have been "stupid idea, go away!"

Another problem is that you can't have non-selectable options (or empty space) in standard select menus. It would have been strange to be able to select "-----" line.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

"Not calm" reply would have been "stupid idea, go away!"

How the idea can be stupid if makes it better readable!?

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Another problem is that you can't have non-selectable options (or empty space) in standard select menus. It would have been strange to be able to select "-----" line.

ah, if that is in question, just forget all these dashes ... maybe empty spaces instead, or better then forget all thing.

[hooverphonique]

Cool.. You found an intro by me and my old mate Coma.. Actually its correct name is 'Potteplante'..

IIRC, we assembled the intro on my Amiga 2000 which had 1mb chip and 2mb fast at the time.. It does not require 'slow fast'.. Also, I think it needs kick 2.0 because we made a mistake in the powerpacker configuration when packing it (something about bcpl headers, I think) - this mistake actually caused it not to be shown in the compo :-(

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by hooverphonique

Cool.. You found an intro by me and my old mate Coma.. Actually its correct name is 'Potteplante'..

IIRC, we assembled the intro on my Amiga 2000 which had 1mb chip and 2mb fast at the time.. It does not require 'slow fast'.. Also, I think it needs kick 2.0 because we made a mistake in the powerpacker configuration when packing it (something about bcpl headers, I think) - this mistake actually caused it not to be shown in the compo :-(

Cool! But what it needs to run fine on WinUAE is only KS1.3, ECS, 1mb chip and 0.5mb slow ram (see pic. below) ... so doesn't need kick 2.0, at least the version from the link.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT:
Now wondering why is there in WinUAE Quickstart configuration also no any of manufacturer defaults A2000 model configurations?!

A2000 Variants -> http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a2000.html

A1500
A2000
A2000HD
A2500/020
A2500/030
A2500UX

In addition -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_models_and_variants
Also -> http://www.lemonamiga.com/help/models/amiga_2000.php

EDIT2:
Oh, I see now why ... there is to many of possible combinations thus is not why in Quickstart there is no any of A2000 models?!
So then only possibility is to make configuration by yourself using some infos and saving it via WinUAE Configurations option. Case closed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Toni Wilen]

Unexpanded A2000 = hardware is identical to A500.

[mark_k]

Except the CIA-A TOD tick.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by mark_k

Except the CIA-A TOD tick.

So in addition A2000 models use power supply instead of vertical-sync for CIA A TOD ... Thanks.

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Unexpanded A2000 = hardware is identical to A500.

And earlier A2000 models were expanded A1000 model, right?

According to link -> http://www.lemonamiga.com/help/models/amiga_2000.php

Amiga 2000A -> based on the Amiga 1000 motherboard
Amiga 2000B -> OCS A500 based
Amiga 2000C -> ECS & KS2.04, otherwise identical to 2000B

[LocalH]

Originally Posted by amilo3438

as proposed additional config. assume ECS Agnus 1MB Chip RAM + 0,5MB via a trapdoor?!

A500 trapdoor 512K (slowfast) is the same as the second half of 1MB chip RAM. 1MB chip RAM with 512K slowfast is physically impossible without hacking, as Toni mentioned.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by LocalH

A500 trapdoor 512K (slowfast) is the same as the second half of 1MB chip RAM.

Well, both work on the same bus but doesnt use same address area!

512K slowfast = C00000h and +512K chip = 080000h ... but 1MB Agnus cant address C00000h area so its called slow memory!

EDIT: But its possible to remake trapdoor to use 080000h addr. area also what is also a hack ... and that config exist in WinUAE w/o problem!

On A500+ is different ... trapdoor ram is there already chip ram expansion area ... f.e. 1mb chip + 1mb trapdoor = 2mb chip ram, what is not a hack.

Originally Posted by LocalH

1MB chip RAM with 512K slowfast is physically impossible without hacking, as Toni mentioned.

Maybe physically impossible, but on WinUAE indeed possible, no warnings!

[Toni Wilen]

It does use same address from Agnus point of view and it is Agnus that controls and refreshes it. Only CPU sees it in different address (Simple address line swap between Agnus and CPU) but that is only an illusion

Interesting side-effect: ECS Agnus + 0.5M Chip + 0.5M trapdoor slow: trap door RAM is visible to Agnus as normal upper part of 1M Chip RAM.

2M fast RAM config is much much much more common via side expansion than this extremely rare hack.

And note that programs that require this kind of config (1m chip and fast) assume real fast ram (because it was designed for "normal" config), not trapdoor ram which is as slow as chip ram.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

(Simple address line swap between Agnus and CPU) but that is only an illusion

And this "hack" is possible doing something like cutting some address line on motherboard or so ... but now its not called a hack but illusion ... somehow a little weird.

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

2M fast RAM config is much much much more common via side expansion than this extremely rare hack.

2M fast RAM = @200000h and not "slow" fast RAM @C00000h ... right?

Thus CPU can access this area @200000h all the time w/o being slowing down by something else.

EDIT: Maybe something like this: CAS A500 2MB RAM expansion -> http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...ct.aspx?id=962

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by amilo3438

And this "hack" is possible doing something like cutting some address line on motherboard or so ... but now its not called a hack but illusion ... somehow a little weird.

I meant that memory being at $c00000 is only an illusion from CPU point of view.

If I remember correctly, it is "jumper" JP2 near the CPU socket that selects slow ram address. (rev6a+ only)

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

If I remember correctly, it is "jumper" JP2 near the CPU socket that selects slow ram address. (rev6a+ only)

Well, that is probably right, mother boards that has ECS Agnus by default also has such "jumper" by default ... but for older mb it needs to replace OCS with ECS Agnus and cut some address line on mb, so then its a hack, right?

So its my mistake ... mb that comes by default with ECS Agnus like rev6a+ is possible to expand on 1MB chip w/o hack.

[amilo3438]

What about a new proposal to use lower unused area for showing current Quickstart configuration ... like f.e. shown on pic. below ?!

Some choices would be f.e.:

KS: 1.2 ROM, 1.3 ROM, 2.0 ROM etc.
Chip: OCS Agnus, ECS Agnus, ECS Full, AGA, RTG etc.
RAM: 512KB Chip RAM, 512 KB Slow RAM, 1MB Chip RAM etc.

EDIT: Or maybe to use 2nd row with all options like: CPU, Chipset, RAM etc. that will be possible to enable/disable showing in options!?

[Toni Wilen]

Can't be done. Quickstart config is "one way", it can be selected but it is not possible to detect if current config is quickstart config (It would be really complex).

And I don't really see the point. You should know what config you have because you chose it. This is not important enough information to be visible all the time.

[amilo3438]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

And I don't really see the point. You should know what config you have because you chose it. This is not important enough information to be visible all the time.

So, the best way to use it now is to make some config, save it under some name and when loaded that name will be already shown on upper left part. ... Okidoki