Anyone for CD32 isos to be converted to .ccd's ?

[NewDeli]

Hi,


I noticed some CD32 isos were ripped this way :
.iso
.wav1
.wav2
.wav3
...

When I mount the iso to play the game with WinUAE (I don't have a CD32), I am not certain the audio tracks are taken into account.

Also, I am pretty sure that with for the vast majority of today's DVD-burners, it can be difficult to find a corresponding software to burn the game images that came in this format.


I am glad I kept a very old Plextor CD-Burner, which I can make CDRWin work nicely along with.
CDRWin has full cue sheets support, but no fancy image creation capacity, so I find myself creating a game CD containing a CD32 game, even though I don't really need it.



For these reasons, I decided to use CloneCD to make an image from those game CDs. I already did that for :

• Alfred Chicken
• Liberation (Captive II)
• Worms DC
• Pinball Illusions

Again, I believe the benefits are :

• Easier to burn images, since CloneCD is still updated
• No missing audio if you mount them

If you own the original of a game, and find it cumbersome to use the rips, I'd be willing to convert some additional ones to the more versatile CloneCD format, then uploading the lot to some place.

Of course, I turn my burnin' light low to 2X (OK, it's 4X but don't spread it !) so the copies and the following step : extraction are accurate.



May be it can bring peace of mind to those still using CD32 consoles and games to having at their disposal a potential working copy ...dunno...

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

When I mount the iso to play the game with WinUAE (I don't have a CD32), I am not certain the audio tracks are taken into account.

Like you said later you need a cue sheet for it. You can use the Saturn Cue Maker for example.
If I got it right you're converting ISO/WAV to CloneCD? Well that would be the same as if you make an IPF of a ADF...

[Ian]

Also, you can add the files using fireburner if you don't have a cue sheet.

I will add though that most (if not all) images available in iso & wav are from the tosec collection so as long as you have scanned them at least once and have the correct cuesheets then daemon tools mounts everything 100% of the time.

IMO converting them to clonecd is a big waste of time.

[NewDeli]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

you need a cue sheet for it.

All these game images have a cue sheet included, or else I could not have burnt them with CDRWin. And when I create the CloneCD, I also create a .cue, just in case someone needs them.

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

If I got it right you're converting ISO/WAV to CloneCD? Well that would be the same as if you make an IPF of a ADF...

Without a true CD32, I cannot say much about how my CloneCD images would behave when burnt back and played in a real console.
I don't plan to load tons of CD32 games in WinUAE, if you had that in mind, but it seems to me the CloneCD images are 1:1 copies of the iso+wav ones.

CloneCD reads the subchannel data and reproduces reading errors, so I am pretty sure it's not a case of adf's VS ipf's. Also, some CD32 game images ARE spreaded in CloneCD format, so I guess it's the same software and possibly inferior CD-RW, DVD-RW drives that were in charge. We're talking about a SCSI PlexWriter 12 x CD-RW here .

I'd say half of the rippers use .iso's (with or without separate .wav files). Some others, obviously well inspired , offer CloneCD's and a few don't bother with audio accuracy and throw in a bunch of 128k mp3s instead of wavs.


I'll upload 1 up to 4 game images I've created in the next few days, and anyone is welcome to try them whether in WinUAE or in a CD32 console.

As of now, Pinball Illusions work flawlessly, and I can play Alfred Chicken although I don't hear any bkg music. A few years back, Ian tested many CD32 games with WinUAE, and he and the others couldn't conclude that either the originals or the copies were working 100% with it.


Last, I will be using UltraISO to mount images, until Alcohol 52° is fully supported under Win Se7en.

[TCD]

Just to make that clear : Do you make CloneCD images from your original CD32 discs?

[Ian]

If you knew how long Idoru took to come up with the perfect way to archive these images you would realise you are wasting your time and effort with this "project"

Install Daemon Tools, it works perfectly with Windows 7 and it mounts iso and wav perfectly (as long as you have the correct cuesheets)

I know there are a few clonecd images (I helped spread them years ago) but it really is overkill.

Spend you time doing something worthwhile.

[NewDeli]

@TCD
You mentioned a program to edit cue files, then I can imagine there's a program to check them. To burn those images (as some people might need to do so, not to alter their originals by numerous CD readings), you need antiquated software/CD-Writer.

I don't have the CD32 as I said, so I dare to say I am not planning to decorate my chinmey with CD32 originals.


@Ian
With CloneCD images, there's no hesitation as whether it's the cue or the iso that should be mounted or if wav files are trailing behind (when one doesn't hear the bkg music in WinUAE, he will double check that the wav are correctly mounted, that's human psychology not rocket science).

The point is simply to have a more convenient way to burn the game in one go (if we consider the image loading is not different). It's about reducing the hassle to be archiving CD32 backups, not for me to make "smart" modifications to the TOSEC.

I noticed WinUAE request the actual CD (the CD0 device not to be empty) sometimes, so to me it has a purpose to have burnt the CD of some of these games. And for browsing purposes, I prefer to be presented a set of homogenous files so for myself, I will make this operation each time I have the opportunity.

Meanwhile I'll repeat (in the meantime = no time is lost since I am doing something useful from my POV), anyone willing to have his CloneCD backup is more than welcome to ask. I perfectly understood that you can live without them, so if you don't have any precise idea of what I should be doing instead, could we just let that be ?


Incidentally, some of the input concerning the testing in itself may be of some value to Tony.

[killergorilla]

Preservation and accuracy are more important than a little inconvenience (even though I don't find it inconvenient).

[TCD]

Making CloneCD images from ISO/WAV makes no sense Deleauvive. Where should the subchannel data come from? If it's for your convience that's fine, but these images won't be any 'better' than the ISO/WAV that are already there.

[Ian]

I do not buy this ease of burning problem, you said you have the full files (cuesheet, iso and wavs) absolutely any burning program burns those images.

The reason the images are the way they are is for perfection of the audio. CloneCD does not produce 100% audio the only reliable way of doing so is using EAC (and even that is up for debate sometimes) which is how these images are created.

Even retro isos (or whatever that other group are called I forget) do not use clonecd, it is not as good as you think.

The only ways audio files won't be added when you mount the image are if you have misnamed wav files that do not match the cuesheet or if you've mounted the iso and not the cuesheet.

At the end of the day though, it's your time your wasting so have at it if you really want too.

It is completely unnecessary though.

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Ian

I do not buy this ease of burning problem, you said you have the full files (cuesheet, iso and wavs) absolutely any burning program burns those images.

Indeed, unlike .ccd images...

[NewDeli]

Ashampoo Burning Studio won't dig those cue sheets, and I don't think Nero 7 & 8 will nor any general usage proggie (Roxio...).

@TCD
yeah, that's for my own convenience, but thought others might like to have a taste at it .

@Ian
What about the standalone isos, then ? Should someone rework the original game to extract the wavs separately ?
One can simply notice by taking into account the existence of those iso + mp3s rips that not every CD32 enthusiast has that sense of perfection that seem to imbue every comment of yours about my "project".

In this case, CloneCD is not there to produce anything, it just stores the data in a different manner. I leave it to the groups you mentioned which are the best tool to deal with the originals. Thing is, I don't "mess around" by repacking stuff, never has, never will.


Hey, even Playstation disc images archiving methods have evolved over time, most notably since the arrival of the PSP.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

Ashampoo Burning Studio won't dig those cue sheets, and I don't think Nero 7 & 8 will nor any general usage proggie (Roxio...).

FYI : Nero works a treat with CUE/ISO/WAV.

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

What about the standalone isos, then ? Should someone rework the original game to extract the wavs separately ?

Standalone isos contain no cd audio.

[Mad-Matt]

Image conversion iso to ccd is pointless as so much information is lost. Starting from scratch id use CCD as it saves much more info then is traditionaly stored in bin/que and deffinatly iso/wav.

I often find my self using MakeCD in UAE to burn some of the odd images spead as current pc software just doesnt want to know, especially iso+wav. Nero has a good track builder, but thats one bloated app for just burning a disk

I started to download a PSX complete torrent from underground gamer (Just games i want) just to find the images are archived really badly (bin+wav no .que) so couldnt make an accurate cd image (audio gaps/indexes). I wanted to convert these images to psp/psx images too

[NewDeli]

Originally Posted by Ian

The only ways audio files won't be added when you mount the image are if you have misnamed wav files that do not match the cuesheet or if you've mounted the iso and not the cuesheet.

Well, Daemon Tools doesn't give the slighest indication that the .cue you're using is erroneous. 10-15 wav entries is quite a chore to check if you multiply this by the number of games you have backups of in this format.
If you know where you're going to (aka knowing for sure the game will bleep its soundtrack in WinUAE), it's all perfectly OK but I don't think everyone downloading CD32 game images is that familiar with multi session cue sheets or WinUAE incomplete emulation of the CD32.

Originally Posted by Ian

It is completely unnecessary though.

Then why your friends did bother with CloneCD images as a conservation tool/format in the first place ?


@TCD
My bad, you're right about Nero being able to deal with those peskies

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

Well, Daemon Tools doesn't give the slighest indication that the .cue you're using is erroneous. 10-15 wav entries is quite a chore to check if you multiply this by the number of games you have backups of in this format.

If a game comes with the cue sheet (TOSEC named ones for example) you don't have to check it and if you create your own it has the right names, so I don't get what is pesky about that format.
Also as Ian pointed out, this is the format to preserve both the data and the audio in the best way. Converting it to CloneCD still doesn't make any sense and even if you have the original CD you should use ISO/EAC WAV.

[NewDeli]

Originally Posted by Mad-Matt

Image conversion iso to ccd is pointless as so much information is lost.

OKaaayyy, you have a point. I'll just burn the iso images, you don't mind if I uninstall Nero and continue to use my old school CD burning app for that, I hope ?

Originally Posted by Mad-Matt

Starting from scratch, I'd use CCD as it saves much more info than when traditionally stored in bin/cue, and definitely over iso/wav.

Well, as much as I respect your hard work on those rips (and the clarifications you bring forth today), I couldn't put it any better.

As for myself, I wouldn't let n00bs tamper with the wavs in such ways (128k mp3s WTF ? When the soundtrack is the main asset of those CD images ?). The sole advantage of the .cue / .iso / .wav for me is that you have the soundtrack at hand, so you go and play the easy going AGA version and have the opportunity to listen to the CD music simultaneously.

Originally Posted by Mad-Matt

I started to download a PSX torrent from underground gamer just to find the images are badly archived

You might find PSX isos in better shape here (S.O.R. community).
I hope you don't mind my little editing of your post,btw .

[Ian]

CloneCD was considered the best way to do it as it was able to copy PC games of the era, it wasn't until idoru and others started adding isos to tosec that it was found to produce less than perfect copies of audio tracks, hence the team throughly testing many different ways of creating the images before selecting the method used today.

It wasn't just a spur of the moment decision made on a whim. At the end of the day if you have a skills gap and cannot use cue, iso and wav then go ahead do what ever is best for you, but don't expect others to jump on the bandwagon as it's worse than what is currently available.

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

OKaaayyy, you have a point. I'll just burn the iso images, you don't mind if I uninstall Nero and continue to use my old school CD burning app for that, I hope ?

You joking right?

imgburner is free, lightweight and is perfectly adapt at writing to CD from a lowly cuesheet

[NewDeli]

imgburner might work with my DVD-RW, but I assume burning the CD with the PlexWriter leads to a more accurate copy. Ha, I wouldn't be surprised if you argued on that one, too !


mmmmh... OK, so I'll assume .ccd's from the TOSEC aren't bearing a CD soundtrack, just like the standalone isos.