Kickstart 2.x on amiga 1000

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 10:54

I would like to use the kickstart 2.05 disk (Kickstart v2.05 rev 37.210 Plus (1991)(Commodore)[m FairLight][pre-release, bootable].adf) on my expanded A1000.

I have an A1000 with 512k + 1 meg expansion (similar to the golem). This expansion only works with a custom 1.3 kickstart. When I use the original commodore 1.3 kickstart, it only detects the 512k chip ram.

I tried to use my custom kickstart and the fairlight 2.05 disk on winuae configurated as my A1000 and it works, but when I try it on my real A1000 it doesn't works because no extra ram detected...

the program used in the fairlight disk is "lkick"

I don't know what kind of information do you need, just ask me. I can also upload the custom kickstart and fairlight disk, if that's legal.

alexh · 02 November 2007, 11:04

a) not legal
b) any soft kicking (lkick, skick etc) will reduce the amount of RAM by 512Kbytes

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 11:29

But as you know, the A1000 has a 256k WOM just for the kickstart.
Some softkickers split the 2.x kick in two, 1 part in the wom and 1 part in the fast (so the amount of ram will be reduced by 256k), and I think the problem is how to make the softkicker locate the extra ram.

My A1000 has enough ram (1,5 mb) to make the 2.x works.

alexh · 02 November 2007, 11:52

Cant you just put a physical kickstart ROM in an A1000?

I would aim for KS3.1 v40.63 and not bother with 2.05 (if I were you).

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 12:05

I need the 2.x to make some programs work (i.e. nice disk repairing software) and to enable some extra options with amiga explorer. And I could do it just putting one disk in the amiga drive.

I don't need to go further. I'm only a nostalgic. I "resurrect" my broken a1000 along with others old commodore computers because I'm dedicating an entire room of my house to a "working museum".

Charlie · 02 November 2007, 12:18

Hi,
All my tinkering with real Amigas is hobby territory so done 'because I can', rarely because it's the most sensible solution. So I think I get what you're up to.

Having said that I would honestly go along with alexh's suggestion & get a 3.1 rom. It will be less frustrating to set up, boot faster, and as upgrades for A1000's can be a pain to find - ease memory issues too.

Regards

Hope you get the answer you actually wanted soon.

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 13:12

If I use a 3.1 rom, can I still boot in 1.3 or I have to softkick it? are 1,5 mb enough?

Fingerlickin_B · 02 November 2007, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBry0

If I use a 3.1 rom, can I still boot in 1.3 or I have to softkick it? are 1,5 mb enough?

Do you mean boot 1.3 from floppy?

If so, yeah, I have 3.1 ROMs in all my Miggys and booting from the 1.3 floppy works every time

PZ.

Charlie · 02 November 2007, 15:20

Also if any of your software insists on a 1.3 rom there are various ways to get round that:
-Softkick a 1.3 rom 'over' your 3.1 Sort-of the reverse of what you were intending, the difference being 1.3 software will be more forgiving of your remaining memory than 3.1. ( Aminet )
-A500 'degraders' can also be of some help. ( Aminet )
-WHDLoad will take care of most problems for you if you're talking about games. Rumor has it that it will work with sub-'020 cpu's - a HDD would be a good idea though...

Zetr0 · 02 November 2007, 15:55

@MBry0

as a thought you could either buy or purchase a Kicks start switcher, this will give you the option before booting on which Kickstart ROM you wish to use... as an added benefit you wouldn't loose any fast or chip memory by using a kickrom switcher

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

a HDD would be a good idea though...

of course it would be

but.. an A1000 with 3.1 rom and HDD... is still an A1000?

that's why I'm trying to make the fairlight disk work.

@Zetr0
the problem is that the 1 meg expansion only works with the damn custom kickstart...

alexh · 02 November 2007, 16:17

Maybe your RAM expansion isnt Autoconfig?

The patched kickstart "adds the memory"?

Can you use the "Addmem" command?

http://aminet.net/util/misc/ykick.readme

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 16:48

How can I see if kickstart adds memory? just an hex editor?

To use the addmem command, I should know the memory address, right?

Jope · 02 November 2007, 18:33

Try it with a vanilla 1.3 kickstart and see if you have any ram?

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Try it with a vanilla 1.3 kickstart and see if you have any ram?

ehr... ehm.. coff coff... what is a vanilla 1.3 kickstart?

I tried with the original 1.3 commodore kickstart. no extra ram...

Charlie · 02 November 2007, 19:49

Um, getting back to your original question:
-'I want to do this because it would be cool.'
-'I want to do this because I need to.'

If the former I guess the obstacle is your memory board's need for a custom kickstart rom. If Post #12 from alexh combined with Jope's suggestion of using a standard 1.3 kickstart gets you back to square one (though lacking the memory lost to your rom-image) then you have a way of using standard rom images such as 2.05 on your system.

If the latter then stick with alexh's suggestion of getting a 3.1 rom... You may well need to use Addmem anyway to get your memory expansion recognised. An upgrade here may be a good idea.

It's probably worth mentioning a large proportion of people on this board (defiantly me) don't view their real Amigas as useful computers. We have them:
Because we like Amigas.
and:
To answer 'what-if' questions.
The practicable questions of 'is this a good idea' or 'wouldn't it be easier if...' rarely come into it.

I hope you enjoy the EAB - new blood is always most welcome.

alexh · 02 November 2007, 21:44

Read the Ykick doc that I provided in the link above, it explains EVERYTHING you need to know.

MBry0 · 02 November 2007, 22:13

@alexh

I had already read it, but I can't make it work (or I don't know how to). Before posting here I surfed all the eab, aminet and other amiga-addicted boards in search of answers.
If I'm asking for your help is not for laziness, and I'm really appreciating your interest.
I'm not an expert, but I just want to understand how it works, in which way the custom kick is different from the original. If I'll get it maybe I can make it works.

My english does not allow me to express the question as I would like to, so please be patient.

reassuming:
I have to use the custom kick so my fast ram can be recognized by system.
The kick 2.05 disk is not a kick disk, but a simple dos disk with this command in the startup-sequence: lkick k20 (k20 is the kick 2.05 rom).
maybe lkick tries to copy the kick into a standard memory location, and maybe my expansion use a non-standard memory location.
If it so, all I need to know is the exact location of my expansion.
Which program can I use to have those informations? (sysinfo?)

@Charlie

mark_k · 02 November 2007, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBry0

@alexh

I had already read it, but I can't make it work (or I don't know how to). Before posting here I surfed all the eab, aminet and other amiga-addicted boards in search of answers.
If I'm asking for your help is not for laziness, and I'm really appreciating your interest.
I'm not an expert, but I just want to understand how it works, in which way the custom kick is different from the original. If I'll get it maybe I can make it works.

My english does not allow me to express the question as I would like to, so please be patient.

reassuming:
I have to use the custom kick so my fast ram can be recognized by system.
The kick 2.05 disk is not a kick disk, but a simple dos disk with this command in the startup-sequence: lkick k20 (k20 is the kick 2.05 rom).
maybe lkick tries to copy the kick into a standard memory location, and maybe my expansion use a non-standard memory location.
If it so, all I need to know is the exact location of my expansion.
Which program can I use to have those informations? (sysinfo?)

@Charlie

The "k20" file may be a CBM Kickstart file that was originally supplied to Amiga developers, in which case it is probably assembled to run at location $200000, which is usually where autoconfiguring Zorro II fast RAM is.

The easiest way to get it working on your A1000 would be to buy a fast RAM expansion that plugs into the side of your Amiga. Then you will have memory in the right place.

As for running 2.0x on your A1000... Given enough RAM, you could use a utility like ZKick, LKick or MKick. (MKick can relocate Kickstart ROM images, whereas ZKick and -- I think -- LKick need special developer Kickstart files.) The best option if you did have fast RAM at $200000 would be to obtain a "ReKick" type developer Kickstart and use that. Also you can use my "ReKickReset" utility on Aminet to improve things.

Back to your current situation, it might be possible to get 2.0 working on your machine by patching the 2.0 ROM image, and possibly using a modified soft-kicker program. If you send me a private message I may be able to help. It should also be possible to free up the 256KB Kickstart WOM after loading 2.0.

MBry0 · 03 November 2007, 13:47

well, something happens!
I used sysinfo and get this informations:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7...titolo2yc0.jpg

so i added addmem (taken from ykick archive) to the fairlight 2.05 disk and added "addmem $0020000 $002FE800 -p 0" to the startup-sequence before the lkick command (lkick k20).

It works! The A1000 boots in the 2.05 insert disk screen. But everytime I soft-reset, the extra memory goes away...

I tried it with my custom kickstart. addmem says that the addresses are already located, and when lkick reboots, a guru meditation comes to visit.

ykick doesn't work at all (or I don't know how to), it reboots into the nice hand holding the 1.3 disk.

If I only had an auto-config board ...

02 November 2007, 12:18	#6
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Hi, All my tinkering with real Amigas is hobby territory so done 'because I can', rarely because it's the most sensible solution. So I think I get what you're up to. Having said that I would honestly go along with alexh's suggestion & get a 3.1 rom. It will be less frustrating to set up, boot faster, and as upgrades for A1000's can be a pain to find - ease memory issues too. Regards Hope you get the answer you actually wanted soon. Last edited by Charlie; 02 November 2007 at 15:17.

03 November 2007, 13:47	#20
MBry0 Ten Pints Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coldest part of Italy Age: 47 Posts: 50	well, something happens! I used sysinfo and get this informations: http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7...titolo2yc0.jpg so i added addmem (taken from ykick archive) to the fairlight 2.05 disk and added "addmem $0020000 $002FE800 -p 0" to the startup-sequence before the lkick command (lkick k20). It works! The A1000 boots in the 2.05 insert disk screen. But everytime I soft-reset, the extra memory goes away... I tried it with my custom kickstart. addmem says that the addresses are already located, and when lkick reboots, a guru meditation comes to visit. ykick doesn't work at all (or I don't know how to), it reboots into the nice hand holding the 1.3 disk. If I only had an auto-config board ... Last edited by MBry0; 03 November 2007 at 14:40.

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02 November 2007, 10:54	#1
MBry0 Ten Pints Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coldest part of Italy Age: 47 Posts: 50	Kickstart 2.x on amiga 1000 I would like to use the kickstart 2.05 disk (Kickstart v2.05 rev 37.210 Plus (1991)(Commodore)[m FairLight][pre-release, bootable].adf) on my expanded A1000. I have an A1000 with 512k + 1 meg expansion (similar to the golem). This expansion only works with a custom 1.3 kickstart. When I use the original commodore 1.3 kickstart, it only detects the 512k chip ram. I tried to use my custom kickstart and the fairlight 2.05 disk on winuae configurated as my A1000 and it works, but when I try it on my real A1000 it doesn't works because no extra ram detected... the program used in the fairlight disk is "lkick" I don't know what kind of information do you need, just ask me. I can also upload the custom kickstart and fairlight disk, if that's legal.

02 November 2007, 11:04	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	a) not legal b) any soft kicking (lkick, skick etc) will reduce the amount of RAM by 512Kbytes

02 November 2007, 11:29	#3
MBry0 Ten Pints Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coldest part of Italy Age: 47 Posts: 50	But as you know, the A1000 has a 256k WOM just for the kickstart. Some softkickers split the 2.x kick in two, 1 part in the wom and 1 part in the fast (so the amount of ram will be reduced by 256k), and I think the problem is how to make the softkicker locate the extra ram. My A1000 has enough ram (1,5 mb) to make the 2.x works.

02 November 2007, 11:52	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Cant you just put a physical kickstart ROM in an A1000? I would aim for KS3.1 v40.63 and not bother with 2.05 (if I were you).

02 November 2007, 12:05	#5
MBry0 Ten Pints Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coldest part of Italy Age: 47 Posts: 50	I need the 2.x to make some programs work (i.e. nice disk repairing software) and to enable some extra options with amiga explorer. And I could do it just putting one disk in the amiga drive. I don't need to go further. I'm only a nostalgic. I "resurrect" my broken a1000 along with others old commodore computers because I'm dedicating an entire room of my house to a "working museum".

02 November 2007, 13:12	#7
MBry0 Ten Pints Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coldest part of Italy Age: 47 Posts: 50	If I use a 3.1 rom, can I still boot in 1.3 or I have to softkick it? are 1,5 mb enough?

02 November 2007, 15:20	#9
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Also if any of your software insists on a 1.3 rom there are various ways to get round that: -Softkick a 1.3 rom 'over' your 3.1 Sort-of the reverse of what you were intending, the difference being 1.3 software will be more forgiving of your remaining memory than 3.1. ( Aminet ) -A500 'degraders' can also be of some help. ( Aminet ) -WHDLoad will take care of most problems for you if you're talking about games. Rumor has it that it will work with sub-'020 cpu's - a HDD would be a good idea though...

02 November 2007, 15:55	#10
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@MBry0 as a thought you could either buy or purchase a Kicks start switcher, this will give you the option before booting on which Kickstart ROM you wish to use... as an added benefit you wouldn't loose any fast or chip memory by using a kickrom switcher

02 November 2007, 16:17	#12
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Maybe your RAM expansion isnt Autoconfig? The patched kickstart "adds the memory"? Can you use the "Addmem" command? http://aminet.net/util/misc/ykick.readme Last edited by alexh; 02 November 2007 at 16:30.

02 November 2007, 16:48	#13
MBry0 Ten Pints Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coldest part of Italy Age: 47 Posts: 50	How can I see if kickstart adds memory? just an hex editor? To use the addmem command, I should know the memory address, right?

02 November 2007, 18:33	#14
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Try it with a vanilla 1.3 kickstart and see if you have any ram?

02 November 2007, 19:49	#16
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Um, getting back to your original question: -'I want to do this because it would be cool.' -'I want to do this because I need to.' If the former I guess the obstacle is your memory board's need for a custom kickstart rom. If Post #12 from alexh combined with Jope's suggestion of using a standard 1.3 kickstart gets you back to square one (though lacking the memory lost to your rom-image) then you have a way of using standard rom images such as 2.05 on your system. If the latter then stick with alexh's suggestion of getting a 3.1 rom... You may well need to use Addmem anyway to get your memory expansion recognised. An upgrade here may be a good idea. It's probably worth mentioning a large proportion of people on this board (defiantly me) don't view their real Amigas as useful computers. We have them: Because we like Amigas. and: To answer 'what-if' questions. The practicable questions of 'is this a good idea' or 'wouldn't it be easier if...' rarely come into it. I hope you enjoy the EAB - new blood is always most welcome.

02 November 2007, 21:44	#17
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	Read the Ykick doc that I provided in the link above, it explains EVERYTHING you need to know.

02 November 2007, 22:13	#18
MBry0 Ten Pints Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coldest part of Italy Age: 47 Posts: 50	@alexh I had already read it, but I can't make it work (or I don't know how to). Before posting here I surfed all the eab, aminet and other amiga-addicted boards in search of answers. If I'm asking for your help is not for laziness, and I'm really appreciating your interest. I'm not an expert, but I just want to understand how it works, in which way the custom kick is different from the original. If I'll get it maybe I can make it works. My english does not allow me to express the question as I would like to, so please be patient. reassuming: I have to use the custom kick so my fast ram can be recognized by system. The kick 2.05 disk is not a kick disk, but a simple dos disk with this command in the startup-sequence: lkick k20 (k20 is the kick 2.05 rom). maybe lkick tries to copy the kick into a standard memory location, and maybe my expansion use a non-standard memory location. If it so, all I need to know is the exact location of my expansion. Which program can I use to have those informations? (sysinfo?) @Charlie

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