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Old 23 March 2017, 17:42   #1
turrican3
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turbo copper ?

hi Toni,
do you think you could accelerate the copper for games like agony and other games which switch colours fastly but sadly with those games you still see the clipping.
if you just could make a winuae beta test version with this feature i could test it with agony. Just a command line is ok because this trick isn't used in so many games.
I know that this is not a priority but if you are ok to give it a try, i'm ready to help you with reports etc...
Or perhaps someone has a better idea to remove this colour flickering?

Last edited by turrican3; 11 April 2017 at 02:52. Reason: helping comprehension ;-)
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Old 23 March 2017, 19:00   #2
Toni Wilen
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What?
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Old 23 March 2017, 19:11   #3
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Turrican3, if the original Agony game (for example) had flickering on actual A500 hardware, then that's part of the game's design and there's nothing Toni can do about it. He is, after all, trying to replicate a realistic emulation experience of real Amiga hardware.
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Old 23 March 2017, 21:33   #4
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Are you talking about the interlaced color background?
You can't change that. And it's not related to the speed of the copper.
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Old 24 March 2017, 00:28   #5
Galahad/FLT
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As said, the flickering copper effects in Agony are by design.
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Old 24 March 2017, 18:21   #6
turrican3
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I know that it was done by design and it was a good use of the amiga 500 hardware but i thought that perhaps winuae could stabilize the copper flickering like it was done with the interlaced resolution.
It was make by design but because of the amiga ocs/ecs limitation ?? Am i wrong ?
I just thought that it could be cool to play those games without the colour flikering.
I thought that perhaps if you could accelerate the colour switching it could stabilize the effect... But really i don't know... It was just an idea, perhaps a wrong one. ;-)
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Old 24 March 2017, 18:50   #7
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Even if what you say was possible in any way, you seem to think every chip inside the Amiga works on its own and it can be accelerated or slowed down at will without affecting the others.

Explained simply, computers like the Amiga have such tight sync and timing between its components that any discrepancy can throw compatibility off and crash the machine. If you want a quick example, turn Immediate Blitter on in WinUAE and see what happens
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Old 26 March 2017, 09:53   #8
turrican3
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For the blitter, it depends of the game some will have some graphics bugs, some will have strange graphics speed and others like turrican 2 will enjoy to have this option set.
I don't know if accelerate the colour switch is possible and if it will affect other things. Perhaps Toni could tell us if in theory it's possible or not at all or an other copper guru.
I think about it... the time between the colour switches are surely coded or depends of the refresh rate, am i wrong ??
I'm curious to know what would happen if we accelerate the copper like toni did with the blitter.
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Old 26 March 2017, 11:10   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turrican3 View Post
For the blitter, it depends of the game some will have some graphics bugs, some will have strange graphics speed and others like turrican 2 will enjoy to have this option set.
I don't know if accelerate the colour switch is possible and if it will affect other things. Perhaps Toni could tell us if in theory it's possible or not at all or an other copper guru.
I think about it... the time between the colour switches are surely coded or depends of the refresh rate, am i wrong ??
I'm curious to know what would happen if we accelerate the copper like toni did with the blitter.
It makes no sense to accelerate the copper. The fundamental copper operation is "wait for beam position xy, then change something.". If it were anything but perfectly synchronised, all kinds of weird stuff would happen.
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Old 26 March 2017, 11:41   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turrican3 View Post
I know that it was done by design and it was a good use of the amiga 500 hardware but i thought that perhaps winuae could stabilize the copper flickering like it was done with the interlaced resolution.
It was make by design but because of the amiga ocs/ecs limitation ?? Am i wrong ?
I just thought that it could be cool to play those games without the colour flikering.
I thought that perhaps if you could accelerate the colour switching it could stabilize the effect... But really i don't know... It was just an idea, perhaps a wrong one. ;-)
What you're saying is not crazy at all, but in the case of this game it's dependent on the vertical refresh rate, and the only way to fix this is to rewrite the game code.

The Copper could also be accelerated like you suggest. It would allow changing colors across a scanline faster, and I think demo coders would definitely appreciate it. But, it would also break existing games and demos that rely on the current speed, so it would have to be used with care just like the Immediate Blitter option.
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Old 26 March 2017, 11:49   #11
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Is turrican3 asking for a line double mode option just for copper lines? Would this 'fix' it?
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Old 26 March 2017, 19:11   #12
Toni Wilen
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Main problem is that there is no way to clearly detect this situation.

Color change is just a color change, it is impossible to know if future color change is something that should be "adjusted" or just something that should not be touched.
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Old 27 March 2017, 09:28   #13
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The Copper could also be accelerated like you suggest. It would allow changing colors across a scanline faster, and I think demo coders would definitely appreciate it.
Yes, demo coders would definitely appreciate it if there was a way to accelerate the copper on real hardware. Adding a mode like this to WinUAE only would be a terrible idea, as it would just break existing software
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Old 27 March 2017, 12:41   #14
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Well, the question is only indirectly related to copper (so, like britelite wrote, turbo copper is not a good idea regarding compatibility..).
Is the same problem as some C64 graphics mode. How this emulators manage the quasi-interlace mode?
For static image was easy (color blending) but in 50hz animations You can end up with nasty ghosting...

Maybe a flag in options?

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Old 10 April 2017, 04:46   #15
turrican3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Main problem is that there is no way to clearly detect this situation.

Color change is just a color change, it is impossible to know if future color change is something that should be "adjusted" or just something that should not be touched.
Thanks to all your answers,
Do you think it could be easily done ??? even if it stay in dos line mode, it's ok for me... not so much will need it but some. If it's easy to give it a try without perturbing others i'll be happy to test it.
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