Submit your best idea for the most realistic path to open source Amiga OS 3.x

[wawa]

Originally Posted by prowler

Noted. Thanks for the suggestion.

If I can make it stand alone, then I'll do just that.

If not, then it just gets removed.

please go on. i have commented on aros because other have been doing it before. id be more than pleased, if i wouldnt have to do that.

[EugeneNine]

I wonder if there is enough interest in AROS to warrant a separate section?

Then the ones that are not interested could filter it out.

[eXeler0]

It's ironic how I initially thought that this would be a thread where we could "store" the good ideas (related to the topic) in one place and it would be easy to finds it later or when needed and now its loads and loads of pointless AROS bickering-posts flooding the thread.
Please stop posting pointless AROS bickering and refrain from talking about AROS in general unless it is somehow relevant to the topic. Feel free to create a new thread instead.

For example, a relevant AROS connection: it is known that OS3.5 and 3.9 updates used some AROS code.
It would be helpful -in respect to the topic of this thread- for instance if the people who were responsible for that code would be listed for possible contact in the matter...

[wawa]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

For example, a relevant AROS connection: it is known that OS3.5 and 3.9 updates used some AROS code.
It would be helpful -in respect to the topic of this thread- for instance if the people who were responsible for that code would be listed for possible contact in the matter...

what for? you dont need to contact anyone. aros has always been open source under which if i remember right is a derivate of some modzilla license or similar (everybody is free to check that themselves). you can use the code without further question. i think it may have been things like colorwheel, but i dont know that, because i dont know 3.9 sources. you better direct such questions at someone who has actual insight in those like thor or olsen, if they are allowed to and want to share that knowledge.

[matthey]

Originally Posted by EugeneNine

While AROS isn't truly AmigaOS, it might be the best option we have for long term future Amiga.

IMO, considering AROS is on topic and relevant when other options are limited. Posters just need to chill in the AROS vs AmigaOS debate. AROS is important because it makes AmigaOS less relevant and less valuable every day. When AmigaOS is practically worthless because of AROS upgrades and features making it not worth porting to another CPU architecture, PPC CPU availability stops, Hyperion fails to add enhancements while maintaining compatibility without running out of money again or AmigaOS 4 hardware doesn't sell well enough with reduced features and insane prices, then it will be much easier to open. They need all the planets aligned to continue and we can see the planets moving apart. The question isn't if they will fail but when they will fail with their current game plan. Their arrogance will leave little sympathy and support from the larger 68k Amiga market they ignored.

Originally Posted by EugeneNine

It makes me wonder though, just how much can Cloanto be selling? How many people do you think buy their package each year? With any project there is a certain number of sales you have to make to break even, sure they are probably not investing anything into it but they have to keep the web site going, and someone answering the e-mails.

I would expect only a few hundred Cloanto product sales a year. Even if it was in the low thousands it wouldn't make their Amiga intellectual property very valuable. It would be weak income even for one retired person.

[wawa]

Originally Posted by matthey

The question isn't if they will fail but when they will fail

according to our experience and logical induction i fear it is alas safe to say that it wont change anything when they fail. amiga code, licenses and ownership changed hands many times in the past but they never have been opened or handed over to community (however you would define it). instead they always ended up with another even more disastrous entity than the last one.

my prediction is that (except for what has been leaked) they will practically remain locked away forever. there is nothing to wait and hope for.

actually the situation reminds me of a classical psychoanalitycal syndrom of constant desire for something without reach. "i cant get no satisfaction" as its been quoted after lacan and stones. the attraction of the amiga os sources lies in their remoteness rather than the practical use and necessity to have them at disposal.

[Minuous]

@wawa:

That's just not correct, it checks against minimum library versions or later, not checking for an exact version. Obviously if programs don't check what version of a system component is available, and then try to use functionality only available in a newer version of a component, the result would be a crash.

>it expects mathieeedoubtrans.library version 37,

Not sure how you reached that conclusion, I have V45.5 here and it works fine.

There is a separate build for OS4, the OS3.9 version is obviously not "basically meant for OS4." Requires OS3.9 plus at least Boing Bag 1, as noted in the requirements.

[wawa]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Not sure how you reached that conclusion, I have V45.5 here and it works fine.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AuvzEgbTrkxP-U4VeqMpvD_bTJmp

[Minuous]

Not quite sure why that is happening, I think it is probably an issue with StormC's maths support startup code that is bringing up that error, as the actual application itself doesn't directly use, and therefore doesn't open/close, any version of that library. Possibly also/instead something to do with 68000 vs 68020 issues. (Being intended for OS3.9 it is compiled for 68020 and would not work correctly on 68000.)

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by wawa

what for? you dont need to contact anyone. aros has always been open source under which if i remember right is a derivate of some modzilla license or similar (everybody is free to check that themselves). you can use the code without further question. i think it may have been things like colorwheel, but i dont know that, because i dont know 3.9 sources. you better direct such questions at someone who has actual insight in those like thor or olsen, if they are allowed to and want to share that knowledge.

I was refering to the OS3.5 and 3.9 coders that used AROS code, not the AROS developers who wrote the initial code.

[wawa]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

I was refering to the OS3.5 and 3.9 coders that used AROS code, not the AROS developers who wrote the initial code.

olaf barthel is a member here as well as on aorg, he has secured the sources after downfall of commodore and while future transitions. you can pm or mail him. thors still valid mail address is to be found with his mmu tools distributions on aminet. i cant think of anyone else who could give you valid detailed information. maybe h&p but they might not to respond to such questions. in general im not sure people will be giving away personal information to be openly posted on a forum. it has better chance if handled privately. but you can try.


btw, for all further aros68k questions or complains, should there be any, i have rediscovered what seems to be an apropriate thread, please post them there:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...rt#post1083599

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by wawa

olaf barthel is a member here as well as on aorg, he has secured the sources after downfall of commodore and while future transitions. you can pm or mail him. thors still valid mail address is to be found with his mmu tools distributions on aminet. i cant think of anyone else who could give you valid detailed information. maybe h&p but they might not to respond to such questions. in general im not sure people will be giving away personal information to be openly posted on a forum. it has better chance if handled privately. but you can try.


btw, for all further aros68k questions or complains, should there be any, i have rediscovered what seems to be an apropriate thread, please post them there:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...rt#post1083599

Yes, Olaf Barthel is certainly a good source of info. Ive enjoyed reading his posts particularly the one in the 3.1 leak-thread. He seems like s friendly and open guy who wouldnt mind sharing info.
By listing people and directions to where to find them we should be fine. Listing active e-mail here is of course not recommended for a lot of reasons (forum rules probably, spam-bots etc)
I did e-mail H&P some time ago but got no response.

My point with the os 3..5/9 devs/consultants was that if they used AROS code themselves for their own work maybe they could be talked into being a bit more flexible with their own sources.
As a start... Maybe there are some other forms of permissive license more suitable in this particular matter than plain open source..

[wawa]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

My point with the os 3..5/9 devs/consultants was that if they used AROS code themselves for their own work maybe they could be talked into being a bit more flexible with their own sources.

aros license is not viral and doesnt require forks to be open sourced, as for instance gpl is, for what i know. so i dont think there ia anything at hand to "talk" the developers into anything. besides i wouldnt think of talking them into anything as an appropriate measure. they have minds of their own.

for instance thor (and likely olaf) have their own vision, how to proceed with the eventual os development. there is a number of discussions mostlly on a1k where it came up. olaf has already released some of his minor updates to the roms with late hyperion release. admittedly they have been cosmetic. furthermore he reported to have cleaned the sources in order to have them correctly handled by unified build system and probably adopt to contemporary compilers. so there is some sort of progress albeit very slow. the question is, how far they will be allowed to go even if they wanted.
whats certain, thor doesnt believe in opening the sources to whom he considers incompetent public, and he may be right to certain extent.

[James]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

I was refering to the OS3.5 and 3.9 coders that used AROS code, not the AROS developers who wrote the initial code.

Stephan Rupprecht was the only person I know of that used AROS code... Not that I know much about the sources.

http://stephan-rupprecht.de/os39.html

There is an email address in the descriptions, but I don't know if it is still valid.

This is a good collection of updates for OS3.5 users by the way...

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by matthey

I would expect only a few hundred Cloanto product sales a year. Even if it was in the low thousands it wouldn't make their Amiga intellectual property very valuable. It would be weak income even for one retired person.

I think you would be surprised. I see people who don't even need Amiga Forever buying it, and even "upgrading" it the following year.

People really, really like buying things.

The thing is, Cloanto could go on selling Amiga Forever even if AmigaOS was open-sourced, just as they are selling it now even though WinUAE is open source. And people would probably buy it because people like paying money for things with "Amiga" on them.

But even if you disregard Amiga Forever, Cloanto are selling Kickstart ROMs to people who who prefer buying EPROMs with home-made stickers with a copyright mark instead of EPROMs with home-made stickers without copyright marks.

People buy Cloanto's pre-installed compact flash cards because they can't be bothered to install their own cards, and because others can't sell pre-installed compact flash cards for fear of Cloanto.

And don't forget that each ACA500+ sold, each Vampire sold also includes a licence fee to Cloanto.

There is money in this, for sure.

[EugeneNine]

Originally Posted by matthey

IMO, considering AROS is on topic and relevant when other options are limited. Posters just need to chill in the AROS vs AmigaOS debate. AROS is important because it makes AmigaOS less relevant and less valuable every day. When AmigaOS is practically worthless because of AROS upgrades and features making it not worth porting to another CPU architecture, PPC CPU availability stops, Hyperion fails to add enhancements while maintaining compatibility without running out of money again or AmigaOS 4 hardware doesn't sell well enough with reduced features and insane prices, then it will be much easier to open. They need all the planets aligned to continue and we can see the planets moving apart. The question isn't if they will fail but when they will fail with their current game plan. Their arrogance will leave little sympathy and support from the larger 68k Amiga market they ignored.

Yes, some AROS is relevant to the original topic, I see AROS as one answer to the question.
But some of the AROS can't run XYZ app couple be in an AROS specific subforum.

[prowler]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

It's ironic how I initially thought that this would be a thread where we could "store" the good ideas (related to the topic) in one place and it would be easy to finds it later or when needed and now its loads and loads of pointless AROS bickering-posts flooding the thread.
Please stop posting pointless AROS bickering and refrain from talking about AROS in general unless it is somehow relevant to the topic. Feel free to create a new thread instead.

For example, a relevant AROS connection: it is known that OS3.5 and 3.9 updates used some AROS code.
It would be helpful -in respect to the topic of this thread- for instance if the people who were responsible for that code would be listed for possible contact in the matter...

I have spent quite some time considering how to separate out the AROS stuff into a separate thread, but it's so embedded that it's impossible.

Then it struck me that a fair amount of the on-topic stuff amounts to bickering anyway, and if I stripped that away then there would be nothing left to make a thread with.

So I've decided just to leave it closed.

Why do these threads end up like this?