Just bought an A600... what have I done?! - Page 2

Zetr0 · 22 August 2008, 17:56

I will say though guys if there is any interest in a GROUP buy of the 8MB fast ram cards from LDV, count me in for 1 fully made, 2 PCB boards and 2 CPLD's

)

tonyyeb · 22 August 2008, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

I will say though guys if there is any interest in a GROUP buy of the 8MB fast ram cards from LDV, count me in for 1 fully made, 2 PCB boards and 2 CPLD's

)

Nice idea. I'm up for that so long as we can tag on a PS2 to Amiga mouse convertor as well.

alexh · 22 August 2008, 20:21

Too late for me, I've just bought my lot

I did try to organise a mass buy when they came out. To avoid the currency conversion charges however only two people PM'd me.

Zetr0 · 22 August 2008, 20:24

damn i missed out on that one....

gklinger · 23 August 2008, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Surely a good thing no?

That's one of the things that I can't seem to wrap my brain around and you're just the man to explain it to me.

I can choose to boot my 1200 (with KS3.1) in NTSC or PAL mode so it seems like there's no advantage to having a machine that defaults to PAL but I've heard that some games only run on PAL machines and that from a gamer's perspective it's better to have a PAL Amiga. How can that be? What difference could it possibly make?

I've also got some Kickstart questions but I've polluted this thread enough so I started this one. I certainly would appreciate your input.

Zetr0 · 23 August 2008, 01:33

@gklinger

I can help with some of those questions.

Running NTSC games on a PAL Amiga is not a problem as it default to that screen refresh and run normally, however when running PAL games on an NTSC Amiga you will lose 20% of the bottom of the screen and the game will run too quick in places, mainly game play and music will be sped up 20% in some cases this can make a game unplayable at worse and annoying at best..

Kickstarts, well thats for another thread

gklinger · 23 August 2008, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

I can help with some of those questions.

Thank you!

Are you saying that a PAL 1200 automatically adapts when NTSC games are run? Wouldn't booting an NTSC 1200 in PAL mode eliminate all of the problems associated with running PAL games on an NTSC machine?

Zetr0 · 23 August 2008, 02:01

When i put an NTCS game in my PAL A1200, lets say NTSC version of Lamborghini challenge, the game will work fine...

there is a little extra space on the bottom of the picture, BUT if i put my Amiga in 60hz mode via the early boot menu, the game runs perfectly... its a crap game, but still it exists to prove this point LOL

A cheap trick to improve the speed of some PAL versions of flight simms, would be to switch to 60Hz giving you a 20% speed increase in graphics

hey, when all you had was an 8mb A1200 and needed to play DOOM, you would DO ANYTHING you could LOL

the real truth is that an NTCS is an Amiga at 60Hz with the NTSC colour enconding on the composite and rf out. when using the RGB port, you have a 60hz Amiga which will reduce the Y of the screen by 20% at the bottom this can be from 576(PAL) scanlines to 480(NTSC) Scanlines.

hmmm its late and when I read what I have wrote... its kinda seems like imma going round in circles lol

have a look here for NTSC / PAL explinations

ignore the DVD rates for the most part and have a lookie from frame and field rates

that will help

gklinger · 23 August 2008, 02:05

I am so confused.

cosmicfrog · 23 August 2008, 02:36

pal bigger screen
ntcs smaller screen

so if start with ntcs and play pal game bottom few lines will be missing and as zetro says
will be running a bit faster

don`t get that problem with pal machines

Zetr0 · 23 August 2008, 02:48

@gklinger

its probably me... imma sleepy....

okay.... lets look at it this way...

On an Amiga

50hz has a possible 576(288 non interlaced) vertical scanlines of information..
60hz has a possible 480(240 non interlaced) vertical scanlines of information.. **purist see end of post

PAL and NTSC encodings are for colour information

you can Have either 50hz or 60hz with PAL color encoding but as far as I am aware you cannot have 50hz with NTSC signal encoding.

now....

the Amiga Video Chipset is governed by the output horizontal frequency, i.e. 50hz or 60hz.. SO I can toggle between 50/60hz PAL and in doing so I increase the speed of the chips by about 20%.

Now NTSC games I believe are written to be at 60hz and hence all the timmings that the software relies on will be based around this, so by running an NTSC game in PAL it will run slightly slower and have a small border at the bottom of the screen.

Now PAL games running in 60hz can have some crazy results, like sound playing to fast, game speed un-playable, cannot see the bottom of the screen.

....

okay...

You have an Amiga, its a PAL machine, this is 50hz PAL color signal encoded output on the RF/Composite ports.

IF you had an NTSC machine, it would be defaulted to 60hz NTSC colour signal encoded output on the RF/Composite.

BUT if you used the 23pin RGB Video port on the back of the Amiga, you negate the encoding (PAL/NTSC) and are left with the vertical frequency of the machine, remember most games were written with a 50hz Amiga in mind so if its at 60hz it will go faster.

.....

now.... does any of that ramble help.... if not... dont worry... its late and it could all be meaningless LOL...

***for the purists...
yes I know there is a 60hz PAL mode, infact I am sure I have seen a demo on an Amiga... not sure if it was a fake though....

tonyyeb · 26 August 2008, 20:27

A600 arrived in the post today, nicely packaged:

That is a yellowed keyboard! Case looks nice and clean though (sticker aftermath needs removing - no probs).

ROM is 37.300. No RAM expansion but....

540MB HD which could have been worse. Not got a PSU to test it yet but that is on its way

alexh · 26 August 2008, 22:01

Which kickstart is that?

tonyyeb · 26 August 2008, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Which kickstart is that?

It says V2.05 on the chip.

alexh · 26 August 2008, 22:16

Cylinders(1050) * Heads(16) * Sectors(63) * Sector Size (512) = 516 MiB (541,900,800 bytes)

Cool, never knew that was how you calculated the size!

tonyyeb · 26 August 2008, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Cylinders(1050) * Heads(16) * Sectors(63) * Sector Size (512) = 516 MiB (541,900,800 bytes)

Cool, never knew that was how you calculated the size!

You are being sarcastic yeah?

alexh · 26 August 2008, 23:24

By the time I got my first hard drive (1998) all that CHS crap had been thrown away.

tonyyeb · 26 August 2008, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

By the time I got my first hard drive (1998) all that CHS crap had been thrown away.

Fair enough. I'm old skool!

Zetr0 · 27 August 2008, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Cylinders(1050) * Heads(16) * Sectors(63) * Sector Size (512) = 516 MiB (541,900,800 bytes)

Cool, never knew that was how you calculated the size!

damn it Alexh!.... this must mean I am old.... its your fault!

"you witness Alexh's L337N33S drop 2 points..."

Eclipse · 27 August 2008, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

damn it Alexh!.... this must mean I am old.... its your fault!

"you witness Alexh's L337N33S drop 2 points..."

LOL, especially after the number crunching on your 2MB mod thread.

@Alex

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22 August 2008, 17:56	#21
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	I will say though guys if there is any interest in a GROUP buy of the 8MB fast ram cards from LDV, count me in for 1 fully made, 2 PCB boards and 2 CPLD's )

22 August 2008, 20:21	#23
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Too late for me, I've just bought my lot I did try to organise a mass buy when they came out. To avoid the currency conversion charges however only two people PM'd me.

22 August 2008, 20:24	#24
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	damn i missed out on that one....

23 August 2008, 01:33	#26
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@gklinger I can help with some of those questions. Running NTSC games on a PAL Amiga is not a problem as it default to that screen refresh and run normally, however when running PAL games on an NTSC Amiga you will lose 20% of the bottom of the screen and the game will run too quick in places, mainly game play and music will be sped up 20% in some cases this can make a game unplayable at worse and annoying at best.. Kickstarts, well thats for another thread

23 August 2008, 02:01	#28
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	When i put an NTCS game in my PAL A1200, lets say NTSC version of Lamborghini challenge, the game will work fine... there is a little extra space on the bottom of the picture, BUT if i put my Amiga in 60hz mode via the early boot menu, the game runs perfectly... its a crap game, but still it exists to prove this point LOL A cheap trick to improve the speed of some PAL versions of flight simms, would be to switch to 60Hz giving you a 20% speed increase in graphics hey, when all you had was an 8mb A1200 and needed to play DOOM, you would DO ANYTHING you could LOL the real truth is that an NTCS is an Amiga at 60Hz with the NTSC colour enconding on the composite and rf out. when using the RGB port, you have a 60hz Amiga which will reduce the Y of the screen by 20% at the bottom this can be from 576(PAL) scanlines to 480(NTSC) Scanlines. hmmm its late and when I read what I have wrote... its kinda seems like imma going round in circles lol have a look here for NTSC / PAL explinations ignore the DVD rates for the most part and have a lookie from frame and field rates that will help

23 August 2008, 02:05	#29
gklinger Vegetable Lasagna Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto, CANADA Age: 54 Posts: 711	I am so confused.

23 August 2008, 02:36	#30
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	pal bigger screen ntcs smaller screen so if start with ntcs and play pal game bottom few lines will be missing and as zetro says will be running a bit faster don`t get that problem with pal machines

23 August 2008, 02:48	#31
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@gklinger its probably me... imma sleepy.... okay.... lets look at it this way... On an Amiga 50hz has a possible 576(288 non interlaced) vertical scanlines of information.. 60hz has a possible 480(240 non interlaced) vertical scanlines of information.. purist see end of post PAL and NTSC encodings are for colour information you can Have either 50hz or 60hz with PAL color encoding but as far as I am aware you cannot have 50hz with NTSC signal encoding. now.... the Amiga Video Chipset is governed by the output horizontal frequency, i.e. 50hz or 60hz.. SO I can toggle between 50/60hz PAL and in doing so I increase the speed of the chips by about 20%. Now NTSC games I believe are written to be at 60hz and hence all the timmings that the software relies on will be based around this, so by running an NTSC game in PAL it will run slightly slower and have a small border at the bottom of the screen. Now PAL games running in 60hz can have some crazy results, like sound playing to fast, game speed un-playable, cannot see the bottom of the screen. .... okay... You have an Amiga, its a PAL machine, this is 50hz PAL color signal encoded output on the RF/Composite ports. IF you had an NTSC machine, it would be defaulted to 60hz NTSC colour signal encoded output on the RF/Composite. BUT if you used the 23pin RGB Video port on the back of the Amiga, you negate the encoding (PAL/NTSC) and are left with the vertical frequency of the machine, remember most games were written with a 50hz Amiga in mind so if its at 60hz it will go faster. ..... now.... does any of that ramble help.... if not... dont worry... its late and it could all be meaningless LOL... *for the purists... yes I know there is a 60hz PAL mode, infact I am sure I have seen a demo on an Amiga... not sure if it was a fake though....

26 August 2008, 20:27	#32
tonyyeb Has the Amiga bug again Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hull, UK Age: 43 Posts: 791	A600 arrived in the post today, nicely packaged: That is a yellowed keyboard! Case looks nice and clean though (sticker aftermath needs removing - no probs). ROM is 37.300. No RAM expansion but.... 540MB HD which could have been worse. Not got a PSU to test it yet but that is on its way

26 August 2008, 22:01	#33
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Which kickstart is that?

26 August 2008, 22:16	#35
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	Cylinders(1050) * Heads(16) * Sectors(63) * Sector Size (512) = 516 MiB (541,900,800 bytes) Cool, never knew that was how you calculated the size!

26 August 2008, 23:24	#37
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,342	By the time I got my first hard drive (1998) all that CHS crap had been thrown away.

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