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Old 12 December 2013, 00:59   #1
coope1999
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CF Card Problems

Hi all,

Firstly I have come here as I have found a lot of useful info via Google that has pointed me in the direction of this board but I need to ask in person as I cannot find the help I'm after.

I have an install of CWB3.9 on a 4gig cf card which works perfectly. I have purchased a Sandisk 8gig card and a dual CF card IDE device. I am having trouble getting the 8gig card to work on my 1200. Before I continue I had the same problem without using the dual cf device so I don't think that is related.

I am trying to partition the 8 gig into 1 partition and I want to use PFS3. Therefore I have downloaded and I am using PFS3AIO and renamed it to PFS3DS (I read that I had to rename it for the 8 gig card). I have put:
Identifier as 0x50445303
Mask as 0x7FFFFFFE
Max Trans as 0x0001FE00
Buffer as 300

At first after partitioning on the 1200 using HDToolbox (from my cwb3.9 installation) when I rebooted, the volume did not show up on the desktop. Therefore I went back into HDtoolbox and was instructed that another HD had been added so I had to save changes (when I clicked on my working 4gig (that has CWB on it). I did that and rebooted.

I was then able to see the new volume so I formatted (in PFS3AIO) and I had my 8 gig volume sitting on my desktop. I tested it by putting some mp3s on it and all seemed fine.

I then rebooted and when WB loaded up the volume said it was uninitialized again. So I formatted again and rebooted. Same thing happened. I tried again and now on reboot my 1200 is stuck in a software failure loop until I turn it off and remove the 8 gig card (then my 4 gig boots as normal).

In "mounter" my 8 gig shows as removable but my 4 gig shows fixed. When I install IDEfix97 the 8 gig dissappears but I have heard this will happen wihtout patching IDEfix97 - but do I really need IDEfix if it orginally worked without it?

Also I have not patched my scsi.device (as I shouldn't have to normally using PFS3AIO?)

Just for the recored the dual CF reader shows each card as a seporate HD and not different partitions of a single HD.

So my original problem was the new 8gig cf kept needed to be reformatted on each boot (but not repartitioned) but now the 1200 won't even boot to that stage.

Obviously (as usual) everything works perfect in winUAE but I know it's normally the case as it's not using Amiga hardware.

I am thinking maybe my 8gig just doesn't like the Amiga but with it working "sometimes" I'm not sure I want to give up on it yet.

Is there something obvious I am doing wrong?
Should I be patching my scsi.device?
Do you need anymore info from me?

I'm running a Blizzard 1230 50mhz 32meg.

Hope someone can help as I've spent far too many hours on this to give up.

Thanks.
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Old 12 December 2013, 01:10   #2
Retrofan
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You can't use just one partition with 8Gb. The first partition is recommended to have less than 1Gb. Look how much you need for your booting partition.
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Old 12 December 2013, 01:13   #3
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I think probably the updated SCSI.device of OS3.9 bb2 does not like pfs3ds. Use the set patch command:

c:setpatch skipromupdates "scsi.device" quiet

Use Thomas' check4gb tool once you have prepared the 8gb cf again to make sure there are no issues, if the are I recommend using loadmodule to patch a different SCSI.device, I find cosmos' version to work well with pfs3.

Good luck.
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Old 12 December 2013, 01:14   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrofan View Post
You can't use just one partition with 8Gb. The first partition is recommended to have less than 1Gb. Look how much you need for your booting partition.

I don't think he wants to boot from it so it should be OK AFAIK.
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Old 12 December 2013, 01:24   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzsteve View Post
I don't think he wants to boot from it so it should be OK AFAIK.
That's what he said, just one partition. He hasn't got another to boot from:

Quote:
Originally Posted by coope1999 View Post
I am trying to partition the 8 gig into 1 partition and I want to use PFS3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coope1999 View Post
I was then able to see the new volume so I formatted (in PFS3AIO) and I had my 8 gig volume sitting on my desktop. I tested it by putting some mp3s on it and all seemed fine.
Also as far as I know, PFS3AIO and 8Gb shoudn't give him problems with the scsi.device

Edit: Ups I didn't read he was going to use a dual Cf adapter, now makes sense what you said Fitzsteve.

Last edited by Retrofan; 12 December 2013 at 21:34.
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Old 12 December 2013, 05:42   #6
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I think he's using the 4gb to boot from and the 8gb for storage.
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Old 12 December 2013, 08:06   #7
Toni Wilen
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There is no 2G boot partition size limit or partition size limits and never has been. Only "limit" are old programs that usually see >2G partition size as negative.
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Old 12 December 2013, 09:33   #8
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Personally I have media here that does not play nice with BB2's scsi.device when using pfs3 so I have to use another, I'm pretty sure this is the problem.
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Old 12 December 2013, 12:00   #9
coope1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzsteve View Post
I think probably the updated SCSI.device of OS3.9 bb2 does not like pfs3ds. Use the set patch command:

c:setpatch skipromupdates "scsi.device" quiet

Use Thomas' check4gb tool once you have prepared the 8gb cf again to make sure there are no issues, if the are I recommend using loadmodule to patch a different SCSI.device, I find cosmos' version to work well with pfs3.

Good luck.
Thanks for the reply. I assume this goes in s:startup sequence? If so, where abouts?
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Old 12 December 2013, 12:02   #10
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Thanks for the replies. Just for the record I will not be booting from the 8gig. It'll just be for media etc.
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Old 12 December 2013, 12:13   #11
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The easiest way is to comment out the lines that I have below:

Quote:
;ClassicWB Startup-Sequence
;--------------------------
;OS39

;Start OS3.9 Checks
;IF EXISTS C:SquirrelSCSI
; C:SquirrelSCSI
;EndIF
;Set SCSIUpdate 1
;IF EXISTS C:IDEFix
; C:IDEFix
; Set SCSIUpdate 0
;EndIF
;IF EXISTS SYS:Expansion/XSurfIDE
; Set SCSIUpdate 0
;EndIF
;IF EXISTS SYS:Prefs/Env-Archive/NOSCSIUPDATE
; Set SCSIUpdate 0
;EndIf
;IF $SCSIUpdate EQ 1
; C:SetPatch QUIET
;ELSE
C:SetPatch SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device" QUIET
;EndIF
;Unset SCSIUpdate
;End OS3.9 Checks
Leaving only the line in BOLD un-commented.

The Check4gb tool should be in the drawer sys:myfiles/largehd

If it reports an issue with your 8gb CF then you will need to load in an updated scsi.device, we can cross the bridge if needed

Let's just see if this solves the issue first
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Old 12 December 2013, 12:36   #12
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I don't think that *removing* >4GB support makes the situation any better.

Also I would not reformat the card when it appears as uninitialized. A harddisk will never loose its initialization if everything is set up correctly. And if it is not set up correctly, formatting it again and again won't help anyway.

You should rather test if

diskchange dh1:

lets the "uninitialized" partition magically become initialized.

Perhaps you should also change the identifier to 50465303 so that features of the updated scsi.device are actually used.

Finally (or better firstly) you should check that the "blocks per cylinder" value used during initialization is large enough to hold the entire code of PFS3. If it's too small, it will be overlayed by the first partition so that formatting the partition will corrupt the code.

If you have multiple harddrives you also have to make sure that the same identifier on all drives points to the same file system. The identifier is unique in the system and file system code is loaded only once per identifier, even if multiple harddrives contain code for it.
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Old 12 December 2013, 13:56   #13
coope1999
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Ok I'm getting somewhere. I did what fitzsteve said with the startup sequence AND I change the identifier to 50465303 from that thomas has said. Now the Amiga boots and shows the drive as uninitialized again. When I do diskchange it reinitializes and I can see it properly again.

I feel we are close now. What do I have to do next so I don't have to use diskchange on each boot? Or do I just stick that command in the startup sequence?

Thanks again.
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Old 12 December 2013, 14:02   #14
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OK sorry to reply again but I have just stuck the command in startup sequence and it has worked. Was that the best thing to do or is there a cleaner method?
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Old 12 December 2013, 15:03   #15
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Hi coope1999, I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by your last post, can you explain better?

@Thomas, the reason I asked coope1999 to skip the OS3.9 BB2 scsi.device update is because in my experience it causes problems with some brands of CF cards, but also I have noticed PFS3 does not seem to play nice with some updated scsi.device's either.

I thought this way we could rule that out as being a problem and later use 'loadmodule' to load in another version such as Cosmos' which I find to work better with PFS3 (again just my experience I don't have the science as to why)

But I have set up 100's of CF cards now for many different people, perhaps I should have documented each individual issue I came across but as you know time is a luxury we don't all have.

There are a lot of people having issues with Classic Workbench 3.9 and CF cards and I think it's down to BB2's scsi device since problems magically go away when you use the skipromupdates 'scsi.device' command. With more and more people using this version of Classic Workbench it's becoming a regular support question on these boards.
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Old 12 December 2013, 15:22   #16
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fitzsteve,

I've put diskchange SHD0: into my startup sequence and now my 8gig appears correctly on boot on the desktop which I expected it to do. thomas suggested using the diskchange command to see if the disk re-initialized which it does. I didn't know it thomas suggested this because it would help diagnose my problem or if it was meant to the the solution to my problem (which it seems to be). I was just asking if there is something I could do so I don't have to have the diskchange command in my startup (because it's just a "patch" to get it to work and not the solution to the underlying problem.) It doesn't matter to me either way as it does work. I just didn't know if it was a clean fix or something that is just "patched up". Hope that makes sense.
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Old 12 December 2013, 15:34   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coope1999 View Post
fitzsteve,

I've put diskchange SHD0: into my startup sequence and now my 8gig appears correctly on boot on the desktop which I expected it to do. thomas suggested using the diskchange command to see if the disk re-initialized which it does. I didn't know it thomas suggested this because it would help diagnose my problem or if it was meant to the the solution to my problem (which it seems to be). I was just asking if there is something I could do so I don't have to have the diskchange command in my startup (because it's just a "patch" to get it to work and not the solution to the underlying problem.) It doesn't matter to me either way as it does work. I just didn't know if it was a clean fix or something that is just "patched up". Hope that makes sense.
Ok that makes sense now. Thomas will have to explain the logic behind it as his knowledge goes way over my head

Did you run the check4gb tool now to see if there is a problem with the 4gb limit?
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Old 12 December 2013, 16:15   #18
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I suggested it to diagnose the problem, but if you are happy with it, it's ok for me, too.

However, if some day you wish to go above 8GB, i.e. 16GB or 32GB, you'll have to activate the new scsi.device again.

Currently it looks like Direct-SCSI support in PFS3 does not work with scsi.device V40 and your card. But once NSD support has been patched into scsi.device by SetPatch/NSDPatch, PFS3 successfully uses NSD.

From this I would conclude that activating scsi.device V45 permanently will solve the entire issue.

Reading all the descriptions above about IDEfix and so on and looking at the section of startup-sequence quoted by fitzsteve, I would guess that you deactivated scsi.device V45 by accident.

Now you changed startup-sequence to deactivate scsi.device permanently. I would suggest to *activate* scsi.device permanently and leave all these crappy IF EXISTS statements commented out as they are now. They came with BB2 and I never liked them. One single SetPatch line with only the arguments you need, that is proper "keep it simple" philosophy.
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Old 13 December 2013, 00:50   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzsteve View Post
Ok that makes sense now. Thomas will have to explain the logic behind it as his knowledge goes way over my head

Did you run the check4gb tool now to see if there is a problem with the 4gb limit?
Hi,

I didn't do the 4gb check. The only thing I've noticed is that although the card should read 7.4gig it is only 7gig on the top of the window. I thought maybe it was because workbench doesn't show decimals for gigs but having put a few mp3s on it it (200megs) has some down to 6.8gig (so 400 meg has been cut off?) Not really a big deal for me.
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Old 13 December 2013, 00:54   #20
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I just want to thank you all for your help with this. I'm going to leave my setup as is for now as I don't want to rock the boat now it seems to be working.

I will, however bookmark this thread so I know what to do in 5 years time if something happens!

Cheers.

Craig.

Oh and if you do Facebook at all and you're not on it already come and join the Commodore Amiga group as it's quite active. I used to frequent alt.amiga but unfortunately Usenet is dead.

Last edited by coope1999; 13 December 2013 at 12:03.
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