Where Time Stood Still - Video or wait? - Page 2

copse · 26 June 2014, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyfox

what happened to my Blue Ocean introductory screen?..has it yet to be implemented?, was it dropped in lu of space restrictions?

It's lieu, if you care to know. If you don't and wish to use your own form of the word, by all means

Greyfox · 26 June 2014, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

No idea dude, I don't appear to have it. If I have room for it, I have no objection to squeezing it in, so if you could send it again mate, that would be appreciated.

I don't need to send it, that's 32 colour 320x240 ready to go

Quote:

Originally Posted by copse

It's lieu, if you care to know. If you don't and wish to use your own form of the word, by all means

I'll bear that in mind on the next one

Galahad/FLT · 26 June 2014, 19:05

Greyfoxs Ocean screen now implemented.

Scrolling box art is now simply a static picture.

Delays between screens increased (Can be nudged on with fire button)

Going to do something with a couple of the static screens as its not very compelling watching

Might well get rid of the first Ocean logo and put a 'loading' graphic of some description in there instead. Greyfox, any ideas on that one?

Dunny · 27 June 2014, 00:17

I know that it's likely beyond your remit, but is there anything that can be done to optimise the screen rendering code? From your video it appears to play an appreciable amount slower than even the Spectrum version, judging by the speed (and amount of tearing) of the menus in the demo mode.

If the actual game is that slow to play (and I suspect that as it's an ST port, it may well be) then it's quite surprising considering the relative strengths of the 68k+Custom chips versus the plain z80

D.

Galahad/FLT · 27 June 2014, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunny

I know that it's likely beyond your remit, but is there anything that can be done to optimise the screen rendering code? From your video it appears to play an appreciable amount slower than even the Spectrum version, judging by the speed (and amount of tearing) of the menus in the demo mode.

If the actual game is that slow to play (and I suspect that as it's an ST port, it may well be) then it's quite surprising considering the relative strengths of the 68k+Custom chips versus the plain z80

D.

That was done in an A500 environment in WinUAE, and it was a basic CPU copy routine, not the blitter one that Mr.Spiv and Asman came up with.

In the final release, there will be different and selectable redraw routines to choose from.

Its noticeably quicker with the blitter routine.

On the A1200 its too fast

kamelito · 28 June 2014, 00:03

Look great to me, thanks for doing it in 2014 it means a lot!
Kamelito

mr.spiv · 28 June 2014, 00:13

Ace. The video was great.

Reido · 28 June 2014, 00:27

Great work, thanks for this, looking forward to playing.

Gzegzolka · 28 June 2014, 12:13

Not sure if I would like to play it, but still it's very good work

Galahad/FLT · 01 July 2014, 11:38

Ingame control bug now sorted.

Having a slight problem with Mr.Spiv/Asmans blitter solution, one of the bitplanes flashes as you move, which i'm a little surprised at.

Its almost as if it can't redraw one bitplane fast enough before its called again.

CPU redraw routine for 68000 has a slight tearing issue at the top of the screen.

Going to see if I can reduce the overheads more.

Galahad/FLT · 01 July 2014, 23:40

Fixed the tearing issues and the blitter flashing issue.

Basically, fast as the blitter code is, it just can't do the entire screen in a frame it seems, so i've managed to find more space in memory for a double buffer, and now the game has no flashing and no tearing.

This version is going to be noticeably slower on 68000 than on the original ST because of the way the conversion works, but because this isn't a high action game, I consider it to be playable.

Obviously if you have 68020+ then it runs like a dream, even with all the work it has to do, its quicker than the ST original.

This isn't a dig at Meynaf, but his ports don't include 68000, I wanted to change that perception and try, and I think i've been largely successful.

Having said that, I intend to try and speed it up a little more with maybe relocating important routines to slow mem for A500 owners.

I think the percentage increase is minimal, but any speed increase is a bonus as far as I am concerned.

For those thinking "but its a tiny screen", you're right, it is tiny. But the problem I have is that whenever the characters speak, they have large speech bubbles which can and are plotted outside of the game screen area, so I can't just replot the gamescreen, I have to plot it all so that nothing gets missed out.

kamelito · 02 July 2014, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Fixed the tearing issues and the blitter flashing issue.

Basically, fast as the blitter code is, it just can't do the entire screen in a frame it seems, so i've managed to find more space in memory for a double buffer, and now the game has no flashing and no tearing.

This version is going to be noticeably slower on 68000 than on the original ST because of the way the conversion works, but because this isn't a high action game, I consider it to be playable.

Obviously if you have 68020+ then it runs like a dream, even with all the work it has to do, its quicker than the ST original.

This isn't a dig at Meynaf, but his ports don't include 68000, I wanted to change that perception and try, and I think i've been largely successful.

Having said that, I intend to try and speed it up a little more with maybe relocating important routines to slow mem for A500 owners.

I think the percentage increase is minimal, but any speed increase is a bonus as far as I am concerned.

For those thinking "but its a tiny screen", you're right, it is tiny. But the problem I have is that whenever the characters speak, they have large speech bubbles which can and are plotted outside of the game screen area, so I can't just replot the gamescreen, I have to plot it all so that nothing gets missed out.

It would be nice and I think someone already ask for it is to post what you've done and learned along the way to build such port.
Oh and I know that you're lazy

Kamelito

vulture · 02 July 2014, 14:28

Thx for your work Galahad!

Galahad/FLT · 02 July 2014, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamelito

It would be nice and I think someone already ask for it is to post what you've done and learned along the way to build such port.
Oh and I know that you're lazy

Kamelito

I don't see that as a problem, the more that can tackle this kind of thing the better.

I picked the right game to do...... and the wrong game to do!

Because this game started off life as a Spectrum game, most of the game engine is based on the Spectrum game, so it plots everything with bytes, and then converts to run on the ST in words.

Of course if I had the source I could go in there and change lots of routines to forgo displaying to the ST screen first and have it convert from Spectrum to Amiga, but would be nicer with the commented source code I think

As a first attempt into doing this, and not having a huge amount of experience of the ST, I think i've done ok

Galahad/FLT · 02 July 2014, 18:19

Right chaps, found the main ST redraw routine for the game screen, and i'm looking to see if there are any ways to make Dentons Designs routine faster.

I include it here:

lea $6cb80,a0
adda.w $12924,a0
move.l $14d22,a1
lea $518(a1),a1
move.w #$8f,d0
move.w #$a0,d1
loop:
move.l a1,a2

REPT 14
move.l (a0)+,(a2)+
move.w (a0)+,(a2)+
clr.w (a2)+
ENDR

adda.w d1,a1
dbra d0,loop

So, any hints how we can optimize this further chaps?

Asman · 02 July 2014, 20:59

@Galahad/FLT

before loop add: moveq #0,d2

and change clr.w (a2)+ --> move.w d2,(a2)+ and save 4 cycles in every rept

edit: save next 4 cycles

moveq #48,d1 ; 160-14*8
moveq #0,d2
.loop

REPT 14
move.l (a0)+,(a1)+
move.w (a0)+,(a1)+
move.w d2,(a1)+
ENDR

add.l d1,a1 ; no diff in cycles if we use add.w or add.l so I prefer add.l
dbf d0,.loop

copse · 03 July 2014, 07:35

Thanks for the detailed notes on the ongoing work. Always interesting reading.

Asman · 03 July 2014, 09:19

@Galahad/FLT
I have question. This game uses only 8 colors ?

By the way that redraw routine eat about half frame on Atari ST as I calculated correctly cycles.

Galahad/FLT · 03 July 2014, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asman

@Galahad/FLT
I have question. This game uses only 8 colors ?

By the way that redraw routine eat about half frame on Atari ST as I calculated correctly cycles.

16 colours. Its probably that the actual game screen in the centre might only be 8, but then you have border and the stuff below that, that probably makes up the rest of the pallete.

Having said that, maybe some further optimization could be done I think if the centre of the screen is really only 8 colours and depending where in the pallete they are.

Good spot

Codetapper · 03 July 2014, 14:20

The panels that popup overlap the game screen and use the full 16 colours - when switching characters, selecting items from the inventory, speech bubbles etc. So that might not be a go-er!

View Poll Results: Do you want a new video of progress or wait until release?
I need to see a video now!	25	69.44%
I'm happy to wait until the game is finished	11	30.56%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

02 July 2014, 20:59	#36
Asman 68k Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Somewhere Posts: 828	@Galahad/FLT before loop add: moveq #0,d2 and change clr.w (a2)+ --> move.w d2,(a2)+ and save 4 cycles in every rept edit: save next 4 cycles moveq #48,d1 ; 160-148 moveq #0,d2 .loop REPT 14 move.l (a0)+,(a1)+ move.w (a0)+,(a1)+ move.w d2,(a1)+ ENDR add.l d1,a1 ; no diff in cycles if we use add.w or add.l so I prefer add.l dbf d0,.loop Last edited by Asman; 02 July 2014 at 21:11.*

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26 June 2014, 19:05	#23
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Greyfoxs Ocean screen now implemented. Scrolling box art is now simply a static picture. Delays between screens increased (Can be nudged on with fire button) Going to do something with a couple of the static screens as its not very compelling watching Might well get rid of the first Ocean logo and put a 'loading' graphic of some description in there instead. Greyfox, any ideas on that one?

27 June 2014, 00:17	#24
Dunny Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom Posts: 1,980	I know that it's likely beyond your remit, but is there anything that can be done to optimise the screen rendering code? From your video it appears to play an appreciable amount slower than even the Spectrum version, judging by the speed (and amount of tearing) of the menus in the demo mode. If the actual game is that slow to play (and I suspect that as it's an ST port, it may well be) then it's quite surprising considering the relative strengths of the 68k+Custom chips versus the plain z80 D.

28 June 2014, 00:03	#26
kamelito Zone Friend Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 1,801	Look great to me, thanks for doing it in 2014 it means a lot! Kamelito

28 June 2014, 00:13	#27
mr.spiv Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Finland Age: 51 Posts: 241	Ace. The video was great.

28 June 2014, 00:27	#28
Reido Registered User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Dublin/Ireland Posts: 403	Great work, thanks for this, looking forward to playing.

28 June 2014, 12:13	#29
Gzegzolka Registered User Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Warszawa / Polska Posts: 1,858	Not sure if I would like to play it, but still it's very good work

01 July 2014, 11:38	#30
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Ingame control bug now sorted. Having a slight problem with Mr.Spiv/Asmans blitter solution, one of the bitplanes flashes as you move, which i'm a little surprised at. Its almost as if it can't redraw one bitplane fast enough before its called again. CPU redraw routine for 68000 has a slight tearing issue at the top of the screen. Going to see if I can reduce the overheads more.

01 July 2014, 23:40	#31
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Fixed the tearing issues and the blitter flashing issue. Basically, fast as the blitter code is, it just can't do the entire screen in a frame it seems, so i've managed to find more space in memory for a double buffer, and now the game has no flashing and no tearing. This version is going to be noticeably slower on 68000 than on the original ST because of the way the conversion works, but because this isn't a high action game, I consider it to be playable. Obviously if you have 68020+ then it runs like a dream, even with all the work it has to do, its quicker than the ST original. This isn't a dig at Meynaf, but his ports don't include 68000, I wanted to change that perception and try, and I think i've been largely successful. Having said that, I intend to try and speed it up a little more with maybe relocating important routines to slow mem for A500 owners. I think the percentage increase is minimal, but any speed increase is a bonus as far as I am concerned. For those thinking "but its a tiny screen", you're right, it is tiny. But the problem I have is that whenever the characters speak, they have large speech bubbles which can and are plotted outside of the game screen area, so I can't just replot the gamescreen, I have to plot it all so that nothing gets missed out.

02 July 2014, 14:28	#33
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	Thx for your work Galahad!

02 July 2014, 18:19	#35
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Right chaps, found the main ST redraw routine for the game screen, and i'm looking to see if there are any ways to make Dentons Designs routine faster. I include it here: lea $6cb80,a0 adda.w $12924,a0 move.l $14d22,a1 lea $518(a1),a1 move.w #$8f,d0 move.w #$a0,d1 loop: move.l a1,a2 REPT 14 move.l (a0)+,(a2)+ move.w (a0)+,(a2)+ clr.w (a2)+ ENDR adda.w d1,a1 dbra d0,loop So, any hints how we can optimize this further chaps?

03 July 2014, 07:35	#37
copse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lala Land Posts: 520	Thanks for the detailed notes on the ongoing work. Always interesting reading.

03 July 2014, 09:19	#38
Asman 68k Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Somewhere Posts: 828	@Galahad/FLT I have question. This game uses only 8 colors ? By the way that redraw routine eat about half frame on Atari ST as I calculated correctly cycles.

03 July 2014, 14:20	#40
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,182	The panels that popup overlap the game screen and use the full 16 colours - when switching characters, selecting items from the inventory, speech bubbles etc. So that might not be a go-er!

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