Hyperion WIN - Control rights to AmigaOS

[illy5603]

Originally Posted by amiga

Those people at hyperion did NOT write workbench 3.1; so its NOT their stuff.
Of course, they won't give it for free, as they try to suck money in all possible manners from a bunch of Commodore Amiga enthusiasts, but thats what speculators do.

They don't have to write it for it to be theirs and whether you like it or not, it is theirs now... You know Michael Jackson's Estate / Sony Music owns the publishing rights to all of the Beatles songs right?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by illy5603

Hyperion own outright the Amiga OS. They are not leasing it, not allowed to use it, they own it.

That is not how I read it. I could be wrong but the wording is deliberately vague probably to muddy the water.

I never thought that the full rights to the name AmigaOS or prior work was ever up for grabs. They have exclusive rights to sell AmigaOS 4 without restrictions. They have exclusive rights to produce any new AmigaOS (well for at least one more) with no restrictions. They have exclusive rights to use any pre-existing AmigaOS 3.1 structures.

But I don't see that they own it any more than they did earlier.

Originally Posted by illy5603

You know Michael Jackson's Estate / Sony Music owns the publishing rights to all of the Beatles songs right?

Bad analogy, the Beatles sold the rights to their songs. I do not remember Amiga Inc. selling anything nor Hyperion buying anything.

But it is all mute, AmigaOS 4 has no chance no matter what platform of ever breaking even let alone making a profit. And I do not expect Hyperion to invest any more money in the area, unless they are pure geeks who enjoy fiddling.

[illy5603]

I agree with the last statement Alex, I really do... I am not a modern Amiga evangelist, I am all classic, but I did pay attention yesterday and thought it was fascinating.

The question that really makes the waters muddy for me is, "What is Amiga now?" Back in the day it was a proprietary OS and Hardware working together. Now is it OS 4.X on a PPC system? Is it a laptop that boots straight into WIN / E-UAE? If Amiga Inc, made a new system branded "Amiga 5000" that ran Windows, would that be an Amiga?

It appears Hyperion are banking on the "Amiga" being their operating system.

re: My analogy, not really important, there are several cases of people owning things that they didn't create right?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by illy5603

there are several cases of people owning things that they didn't create right?

Very few where the people got something they didn't own following a court case concerning a sequal.

It would be like a company who entered into a contract to make StarWars Episode 7 and future episodes having been told they cannot release it and cannot make anything StarWars related in the future then suing LucasFilm and ending up owning the entire StarWars franchise including the previous movies.

I could imagine them being allowed to release the StarWars 7 they made and being able to use the original characters etc. for new productions (within the scope of an agreement) but I cannot see them ending up owning the StarWars franchise.

[Xytec]

Originally Posted by alexh

Bad analogy, the Beatles sold the rights to their songs. I do not remember Amiga Inc. selling anything nor Hyperion buying anything.

No they didn't Alex.

There early songs ( on the Parlaphone label ) had run out of copywrite (25 years) and they were offered the chance to 'buy them back' ie extend the copywrite, and Paul McCartney famously said ' Why should I have to buy my own songs?' a decision he later said was a grave error of judgement.

Jacko stepped in and 'bought' them ie everytime ones played on a radio the recording writes went into his bank account instead of theres.

Macca had already bought all Buddy Holly's and 'really really should have known better' to paraphrase a Beatles song

[alexh]

I am not a copyright expert but what you're saying sounds unlikely.

It is more likely that Parlaphone owned the copyright and not the Beatles, they had a contract with the Beatles which only lasted 25 years. After which, as I said, the copyright owners SOLD them. The Beatles could have been offered them first as you say and declined but the result is the same, they were SOLD by the owners.

Probably a very simplified view but AFAIK music copyrights (at least in the UK) last by default for 50 years. After which they become public domain and can be published free by anyone.

Something that Cliff Richards tried to change (extend) and failed.

[illy5603]

Originally Posted by alexh

Very few where the people got something they didn't own following a court case concerning a sequal.

It would be like a company who entered into a contract to make StarWars Episode 7 and future episodes having been told they cannot release it and cannot make anything StarWars related in the future then suing LucasFilm and ending up owning the entire StarWars franchise including the previous movies.

I could imagine them being allowed to release the StarWars 7 they made and being able to use the original characters etc. for new productions (within the scope of an agreement) but I cannot see them ending up owning the StarWars franchise.

I don't want to get into analogy wars and I understand where you are going with the star wars stuff. All I am saying, in reply to user "amiga" is that just because someone creates something, doesn't mean they always own it. Sometimes things are sold, sometimes they are given away in a settlement or whatever.

It was clear yesterday that "The Amiga Operating System" as settled out of court, is the property of Hyperion. Just because employees of Hyperion may have had little or no part at all in creating any of the original code doesn't mean that the company doesn't own the OS now.

It was not my intent to argue over the literal WORD Amiga, the "concept" of Amiga, the Amiga hardware or any other IP's that may still be unresolved regarding Amiga. Just the operating system...

[cybernoid]

Great News. I dont believe!

What's next: Amiga 64bits PC with 22000 Amiga-ready linux applications & games?

...Maybe thats why Winblows 7 will be 'faster and cleaner'...

Who knows?

How faster would be AmigaOS vs Winblows with same hardware?

[illy5603]

Originally Posted by cybernoid

Great News. I dont believe!

What's next: Amiga 64bits PC with 22000 Amiga-ready linux applications & games?

...Maybe thats why Winblows 7 will be 'faster and cleaner'...

Who knows?

How faster would be AmigaOS vs Winblows with same hardware?

Windows 7 is faster and cleaner. I have had the RTM version on my work laptop for two months now. But what does that or Linux have to do with anything?

These kind of comments were all over yesterday during the show. Maybe someday people will grasp the concept that the Amiga OS has and never will be open source. If you want Linux, just go use linux!

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Merlin

The ROMs are an intrinsic part of the OS as I understand it, so ownership of the ROM contents should be with Hyperion. I guess we'll find out in time... maybe 2 more weeks?

The roms copyright "belongs" to colanta as far as i know and asthey aren't mentioned in the agreement i doubt anything has changed

[Zetr0]

@Ian

If its a matter of record then The Kickstart ROM's still belong to gateway computers. as far as the record goes (and thats the several hours perhaps even days of pentus reading) Amiga Inc and Clonato only have a distribution license.

Of course its possible that some one at gateway f*cked up and these now belong to tulip, however knowing that company they would certainly be selling them by now.

I am very much so inclined to agree with Alexh on this one...

Somewhere.... in a room.... theres a box.... with many other boxes with it.... and in that box is the legal documents of ownership... alas no one has been in this room for atleast 15 years, infact I doubt they could even find it!

[Jope]

Originally Posted by alexh

They don't own it. Amiga Inc. still own it. But they have agreed a framework in which Hyperion can use it.

That's what I walked away with too.. What the text told me was, Hyperion have a license to use parts of OS3.1 in their product, which is called Amigaos 4.x..

I mean how can anyone twist the following sentence to mean that they can do whatever they please with it? Emphasis mine.

Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x

[Paul_s]

Court Case fees vs. AmigaOS 4.x sales = priceless! (I know which one would be greater, do you? )

edit: unless the case went before Judge Judy = on TV soon?

[tonyyeb]

I wouldn't say this 100% great news but i'm thinking that it is a positive step in the right direction. Especially for current and potential OS4.x users. At least updates, new platforms supported etc should come a bit easier now.

[cybernoid]

Originally Posted by illy5603

Windows 7 is faster and cleaner. I have had the RTM version on my work laptop for two months now. But what does that or Linux have to do with anything?

These kind of comments were all over yesterday during the show. Maybe someday people will grasp the concept that the Amiga OS has and never will be open source. If you want Linux, just go use linux!

You have Gimp for Amiga.
You had Fredfish and PDSoft for Amiga.

Mac now supports open source (but I'm not 100% sure about that)

I don't understand why not opensource and commercial software can stay
together. What I see in most Winblows machines is torrent-cracked-stuff.

[chiark]

Some interesting posts on the slashdot thread by Dave Haynie...

[papa_november]

So basically, even though there's now a chance in hell of the thing booting on old Macs or even possibly an x86 port, the AmigaOS is still going to be dead without a total open-source overhaul.

So how many decades until people just give up and realise that almost nobody is going to pay money for a now-hopelessly-dated operating system?

[illy5603]

Originally Posted by papa_november

So basically, even though there's now a chance in hell of the thing booting on old Macs or even possibly an x86 port, the AmigaOS is still going to be dead without a total open-source overhaul.

So how many decades until people just give up and realise that almost nobody is going to pay money for a now-hopelessly-dated operating system?

You very well could be right about nobody wanting to pay for a new Amiga OS but I would argue that there are just as many that wouldn't touch it if it were open source either. I don't have the time in a given day to sit and browse forums and newsgroups to figure out how to install a network driver, which is why I don't use Linux or any other open source operating system. To me the "nerd street cred" isn't worth the time it takes away from my family and my classic gaming.

[Flink]

Have you guys seen the latest news on Hyperion having full ownership of the AmigaOS? What do you think?

* Are we going to see more hardware running AmigaOS in the short run?
* What about old G3 and G4 Macs? Do you think it is worth the time to port to this (obsolete) platform?
* I believe the AmigaOS might have a nice impact on the embedded systems market. What hardware do you think would be great to have it running on?
* I think the next big things AmigaOS must have are a Java Runtime Engine and touchscreen support/drivers. What about you?
* In terms of conquering Amigans of old (even if it's difficult/improbable to convert non-Amigans), what do you think AmigaOS should have added?

[TCD]

Yes we have, hence this thread