Bug in AGA and not OCS - Page 2

msayed1977 · 08 January 2013, 03:10

Toni,

I only asked you to fix that problem because I felt that if the game does not work very well in AGA, it means that the emulator can be optimized.
Nothing concerns me more.
If you'd like to fix it, that is your choice.
Thank you.

StingRay · 08 January 2013, 07:18

And for the last time: This is a problem with the game code and NOT with the emulator. Try to run original KO2 on anything else than 68000/OCS, if you manage to make the game run EXACTLY like on 68000 OCS A500 THEN you can demand some emulation fixes.

Coagulus · 08 January 2013, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by msayed1977

Toni,

I only asked you to fix that problem because I felt that if the game does not work very well in AGA, it means that the emulator can be optimized.
Thank you.

There lies the difference between Amiga emulation and emulation of other machines such as SNES/Master System. On those emulators, if a game does not work then the emulator is fixed. This is because there is only one machine which the game should work on.

There are lots of different Amigas, the emulator is trying to emulate them all as accurately as possible. But not all at the same time. Therefore, if a game doesn't work well in AGA, either a fixed version of the game should be sought or the configuration in WinUAE changed to match the required machine. By the user.

coze · 08 January 2013, 10:02

perfect troll ? a user with no posts other than winuae.support ?

Toni Wilen · 08 January 2013, 10:38

First: Perfectly wrong reply, not posting on forum does not mean OP hasn't posted via other methods.

Funnily enough this thread is full of assumptions, it is very boring to actually check the actual problem (which most likely is game issue but it does not make any difference)

Anyway, I don't think OCS vs ECS (_if_ the only difference is OCS/ECS checkbox!) can cause this kind of differences.

EDIT: I think it simply did blits stupidly and there is no way to fix it because any kind of "fix" would break other games.

mombasajoe · 08 January 2013, 10:51

I just don´t understand this thread. Config kickstart 1.3, AGA, 68000.....what the...!?

Since nobody has checked how this disk behaves inside the real thing ( e. g. a plain (!) A1200, "smallest" real AGA-Machine with DF0: available) nothing else has to be done before, has it?

Toni Wilen · 08 January 2013, 11:00

I think the original point (even when using proper config) was that this game won't work better with immediate blitter or wait for blitter options. Usually they help.

StingRay · 08 January 2013, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Anyway, I don't think OCS vs ECS (_if_ the only difference is OCS/ECS checkbox!) can cause this kind of differences.

I don't think so either, probably CPU speed related.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

EDIT: I think it simply did blits stupidly and there is no way to fix it because any kind of "fix" would break other games.

I can't remember any weird or stupid blits in the game but I'll have a closer look at the code again. What I do know is that Goal! (same coder) has problems with flickering "sprites" on CPU's > 68000, the flickering occurs randomly. Might be the same problem in KO2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I think the original point (even when using proper config) was that this game won't work better with immediate blitter or wait for blitter options. Usually they help.

Well, KO2 works perfectly fine when using standard 68000/A500 config so I still do not think that's it's any problem with the emulation.

StingRay · 08 January 2013, 21:27

I may have found a possible reason, at least one version is using SMC to enable/disable a routine, which blits clipped bobs (I think). Might very well be one possible reason for the flickering.

msayed1977 · 09 January 2013, 21:23

Thank you, Toni, for caring with my requests.
Even though WinFellow runs the game perfectly with ECS Agnus and with similar configs, if you find fixing that bug would break other games, please do not try to. I care a lot about your emulator.
Again, I thank you very much for your attention.

dlfrsilver · 03 April 2013, 11:18

Considering how winuae is today, winfellow is either crap or buggy and/or incomplete compared to it.

If i use Kick off 2 (french retail release) on my A1200 it just bombs out. An A500, OCS, 512kb of RAM is needed.

Do not involve AGA (A1200 or A4000 only).

BippyM · 03 April 2013, 11:45

Have you considered that it works in WinFellow because WinFellow is actually broken and NOT emulating ECS properly???

StingRay · 03 April 2013, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

If i use Kick off 2 (french retail release) on my A1200 it just bombs out. An A500, OCS, 512kb of RAM is needed.

This is normal and caused by the copy protection, code will only be decrypted correctly on 68000 CPU's.

dlfrsilver · 03 April 2013, 14:26

yep indeed, as seen in your whdload installs, thanks to the technical details

msayed1977 · 03 April 2013, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Considering how winuae is today, winfellow is either crap or buggy and/or incomplete compared to it.

If i use Kick off 2 (french retail release) on my A1200 it just bombs out. An A500, OCS, 512kb of RAM is needed.

Do not involve AGA (A1200 or A4000 only).

I also have checked another version of "Kick Off 2" called 1.53, which (I think) is optimized for AGA, and the problem is there.

StingRay · 03 April 2013, 15:51

There is no "AGA optimised" version of Kick Off 2.

08 January 2013, 10:38	#25
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	First: Perfectly wrong reply, not posting on forum does not mean OP hasn't posted via other methods. Funnily enough this thread is full of assumptions, it is very boring to actually check the actual problem (which most likely is game issue but it does not make any difference) Anyway, I don't think OCS vs ECS (_if_ the only difference is OCS/ECS checkbox!) can cause this kind of differences. EDIT: I think it simply did blits stupidly and there is no way to fix it because any kind of "fix" would break other games. Last edited by Toni Wilen; 08 January 2013 at 10:46.

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08 January 2013, 03:10	#21
msayed1977 Better than the Original Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cairo, Egypt Posts: 152	Toni, I only asked you to fix that problem because I felt that if the game does not work very well in AGA, it means that the emulator can be optimized. Nothing concerns me more. If you'd like to fix it, that is your choice. Thank you.

08 January 2013, 07:18	#22
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	And for the last time: This is a problem with the game code and NOT with the emulator. Try to run original KO2 on anything else than 68000/OCS, if you manage to make the game run EXACTLY like on 68000 OCS A500 THEN you can demand some emulation fixes.

08 January 2013, 10:02	#24
coze hastala vista winny vista Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mt fuji Age: 46 Posts: 1,335	perfect troll ? a user with no posts other than winuae.support ?

08 January 2013, 10:51	#26
mombasajoe Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: D Age: 49 Posts: 528	I just don´t understand this thread. Config kickstart 1.3, AGA, 68000.....what the...!? Since nobody has checked how this disk behaves inside the real thing ( e. g. a plain (!) A1200, "smallest" real AGA-Machine with DF0: available) nothing else has to be done before, has it?

08 January 2013, 11:00	#27
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	I think the original point (even when using proper config) was that this game won't work better with immediate blitter or wait for blitter options. Usually they help.

08 January 2013, 21:27	#29
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	I may have found a possible reason, at least one version is using SMC to enable/disable a routine, which blits clipped bobs (I think). Might very well be one possible reason for the flickering.

09 January 2013, 21:23	#30
msayed1977 Better than the Original Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cairo, Egypt Posts: 152	Thank you, Toni, for caring with my requests. Even though WinFellow runs the game perfectly with ECS Agnus and with similar configs, if you find fixing that bug would break other games, please do not try to. I care a lot about your emulator. Again, I thank you very much for your attention.

03 April 2013, 11:18	#31
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	Considering how winuae is today, winfellow is either crap or buggy and/or incomplete compared to it. If i use Kick off 2 (french retail release) on my A1200 it just bombs out. An A500, OCS, 512kb of RAM is needed. Do not involve AGA (A1200 or A4000 only).

03 April 2013, 11:45	#32
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	Have you considered that it works in WinFellow because WinFellow is actually broken and NOT emulating ECS properly???

03 April 2013, 14:26	#34
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	yep indeed, as seen in your whdload installs, thanks to the technical details

03 April 2013, 15:51	#36
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	There is no "AGA optimised" version of Kick Off 2.

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