£16 home computer to kickstart young developers

Bloodwych · 23 December 2011, 14:25

Posted this in news, but just realized it's moderated only - please delete that one. I've re-posted here.

Interesting article, supported by David Braben:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16316439

To think this tiny thing is probably many times more powerful than a classic Amiga. How far we have come!

Specs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

It's going to be used to encourage youngsters to program from home, like the golden age of computing. Also they are preparing a RISC OS 5, like we used to use on the Arc at school.

Amiga1992 · 23 December 2011, 15:57

What is incredible to me, is how much money has Acorn (whatever they are called now) made with the ARM chip. They are basically the only remnants of the home computer craze of the 80s.

Plus this:

Quote:

The idea for Raspberry Pi came from video game veteran David Braben who was searching for a way to inspire young people to start a career in technology.

Make Frontier for Pi!!

Conundrum · 23 December 2011, 17:11

But the real question now is, will David ever finish Elite 3?

imigger · 23 December 2011, 17:53

what a waste of time and money kids only want to play with buttons and this hasnt got very many if any , and languages are hard to understand even basic, so whats a kid going to do with it ohh yes nothing , what a croc, nobody would bother learning anything on this device ,if a young person wants to learn how to create something then i suggest using a game engine , because if you dont you wouldt ever get anything good.
this computer is just another dust gaverer a complete bit of crap, you can get a 7 inch android for 40 quid you can use it and learn to program an arm cpu onit ,and it still does everything else.

im ranting but im fedup with the backward people in this world that have no sense,

theres only so much resources in the world for christ sake.

there more important things in life are can jimmy put a plug on can he fix his own stuff these are the lost trates , not would jimmy like to play on a really crap small computer..

sados

Allen1 · 23 December 2011, 19:58

For the price, its something for even us older folk to buy and have a play around with. Who knows how far something like this could go or even be expanded upon, I reckon that I would buy one for myself but there again I like to tinker with stuff and something like this would keep me happy for a good while and its a lot cheaper than a night out with the added bonus of you can always use it again and again.

Maybe this will turn out to be a good console emulator as its programming advances, you never know!

Galahad/FLT · 23 December 2011, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by imigger

what a waste of time and money kids only want to play with buttons and this hasnt got very many if any , and languages are hard to understand even basic, so whats a kid going to do with it ohh yes nothing , what a croc, nobody would bother learning anything on this device ,if a young person wants to learn how to create something then i suggest using a game engine , because if you dont you wouldt ever get anything good.
this computer is just another dust gaverer a complete bit of crap, you can get a 7 inch android for 40 quid you can use it and learn to program an arm cpu onit ,and it still does everything else.

im ranting but im fedup with the backward people in this world that have no sense,

theres only so much resources in the world for christ sake.

there more important things in life are can jimmy put a plug on can he fix his own stuff these are the lost trates , not would jimmy like to play on a really crap small computer..

sados

Sorry, I reckon you couldn't be more wrong.

Whether or not the Raspberry Pi is the machine to create a much needed niche or not isn't the point, but that niche does need filling that no other machine can.

Where have all the bedroom coders gone? Where have the three man teams gone that could create a game in their spare time that was something special?

The problem is, the Amiga died!

The Amiga for the most part was affordable, and had STANDARD hardware, which is perfect for the fledgling development team to work on.

OK, so Playstation 3 and XBox 360 have standard hardware, but you certainly couldn't describe developing for them particularly affordable.

The PC is a non starter, because there is no 100% predefined STANDARD out there. Theres Linux, Windows in its many flavours.

Write a PC game, and theres no guarantee that it'll work on all systems with user interaction to make it work, which is NOT what people want, they largely want it to work out the box.

So, where have all the bedroom coders gone? They've cropped up on Android and IOS.

One of the biggest hits of recent times wasn't on PS3 or 360 or Wii or PC... it was on mobile smartphones.... Angry Birds!

A game that harkens back to the days of the Amiga, that anyone can pick up and play, has nothing super technical about it, and probably had a very quick development time, with a small team.

Emulated Android environment on PC needs a decent spec to run properly, i've not investigated IOS, but I would imagine it would rule lots of potential developers out with its overheads.

A cheap, STANDARD device that is programmable, CHEAP, capable of getting young and new developers out the starting blocks, that is capable of equaling the content that is popular today, its much needed.

Never before has the software industry missed the Amiga or a machine like it that presented people with the opportunity to innovate and do it cheaply.

Sure, the likes of Activision with their billion $ franchises might not get overly excited, but for every Call of Duty, theres 20+ other games that have huge budgets that barely make their production costs back.

You only have to look at the success of Live Arcade and PS3 Minis and the stuff on Wii to realise that people like old skool type games.

Reckon a machine like Raspberry Pi is long overdue.

gunni · 23 December 2011, 20:57

@imigger I believe the device was originally aimed at schools to get kids coding again in computer classes instead of just learning to be office drones - a BBC Micro for today if you will. Totally agree about trades though... can never find an electrician or plumber when you need one. Universities need to stop giving degrees in stupid subjects too - hospitality being a prime example: good going kid, it took 4 years of uni so you can carry food from the kitchen to my table... your parents must be proud. I'll stop there before I go into a full scale rant on the state of the education system!

@Allen1 there has already been one expansion board announced http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/411 a GPIO board for motors, sensors, etc.

jimbob · 23 December 2011, 21:32

I think this is a neat idea but I'm not sure it can achieve it's aims of educating a new generation in down to metal computer understanding and coding. It all depends on the development environment and libraries which will require existing developers to create and then of course the kids won't learn about the guts and nuts and bolts. I don't see ARM plus linux being nearly as accesible to kids as speccy or C64. Linux is a bit of a monster.

I reckon it will more successful as an arduino type platform for hobbyist engineer types. Maybe the kids will learn by playing with dad I guess. Depends on the capabilities of it's GPIO pins, but it is cheaper and way more powerful than arduino. The involvement of David Braben is likely very appealing to this crowd also. The generation it is supposedly aimed at will say "David Who?"

Imigger, your rant is a bit off target I think. I take the point but wiring a plug, come off it, it takes all sorts to make the world go round, I bet there are plenty excellent coders you would be very unwise to let near your electricals, what is the expression, beware of programmers baring screwdrivers. I reckon there is a risk of certain computing skills disappearing as a generation of programmers retire and die off, this is at least an attempt to do something about it. Someone, has to be able to write future hardware drivers, operating systems, compilers, all the hard stuff you need to be a complete bithead to do.

PaulyQ · 23 December 2011, 21:52

I for one think this is a fantastic little piece of electronics, I for one would and AM going to buy one of these and see what I can do with it, I've had an Amiga, a PC and always want a return to the days of the 80's were you build or program something to actually work.

prowler · 23 December 2011, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodwych

Posted this in news, but just realized it's moderated only - please delete that one. I've re-posted here.

I was about to move that one into this forum, since the subject isn't directly Amiga related, but then I noticed this thread with a similar title and decided to have a look here first. Done!

Bloodwych · 23 December 2011, 22:44

Thanks prowler; twas me being dumb!

Lorfarius · 26 December 2011, 21:46

I think it's a great idea. I work in a UK secondary school and talking to the head of ICT he's often commenting on how education is geared towards Microsoft Office, word, excel etc. Basically training kids what it's like to work in an office, he misses the old days from the early 90's when there was some programming involved.

rue · 26 December 2011, 22:53

It's a wonderful aim and I hope they find success with it. Funny to think that this tiny board with a mobile SOC probably has more than enough computational power for the average user and here we are, and probably will for the next handful of years, using relatively expensive and power hungry machines that are when you think about it grossly overpowered for what most people use them for.

Anyway, is anyone here thinking of nabbing one to see if they can hack it into (or under) a keyboard case?

gunni · 27 December 2011, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rue

Anyway, is anyone here thinking of nabbing one to see if they can hack it into (or under) a keyboard case?

I've got a C64 case with a keyrah in it just waiting...

Paul_s · 27 December 2011, 11:05

Nice idea and I'm sure some kids in UK schools will enjoy learning with this device and who knows, inspire someone to be a great programmer.

I do have my reservations though - it'd be like giving a kid a 56kbps modem and asking them to surf the net with it. I just can't see many having the patience to learn code with how kids are these days wanting everything 'instantly'. It's a far cry to when many of us were at school and computing was 'fun' and in that age when people were 'really' interested in programming and how these things worked!

Can you imagine a Facebook update 'wowsers I just made my computer print screen on a loop saying 'I am cool' with my 'Raspberry Pi'... nah.

Charlie · 27 December 2011, 12:34

Woohoo!

This is wonderful - a 'proper' computer; cheap enough to be an impulse buy, simple enough to attract new blood in to development, and yet powerful enough to be useful...
...the moment RiscOS 5 is out for it I shall buy at least one. Hmm, I wonder how overclockable / hackable it is..?

I had been toying with cramming a PC in to an Oric Atmos case I have laying about but, yawn, been there & done that...
...this would be more fun and more 'home computery'...

Model A or Model B, eh?
My wishful thinking smells a new BBC computer literacy project and TV series. Please, please, please... Maybe not main-stream. but a regular 'Sky at Night' slot would be lovely.
I wonder if the old presenters are still alive?
Ian: Right Chris, you have your Raspberry, is your soldering iron up to temperature?
Chris: Which end do I hold?
...Oh, joy! :-)

P.S.
Hello, a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all. I'm not dead, just very busy.

Charlie · 01 January 2012, 20:22

Anyone want to bid on one of the prototype boards?

fleaBay auction

jimmy2x2x · 01 January 2012, 20:46

WOW they are really fetching in the dollars!

gunni · 01 January 2012, 21:16

wow indeed! :O

imigger · 02 January 2012, 16:18

yeah ok then lets just watch it flop in england lol , there better things out there to get kids into and at the end of the day i want my kinds to be practical and actualy learn something of some use,

this is not it and never will be, considering how the wages for IT have dropped and disapeared ,IT isnt worth learning if you want kids to learn sumit try electrician or builder not IT its dead in the water ,i would sooner they did more sports to keep them fit not stuck in watching a screen they get enough of that at home.

but as for the thread we will wait and see but ill say goodbye to it now ,just like all the other cheap computer bbc sinclair and countless others.

23 December 2011, 14:25	#1
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	£16 home computer to kickstart young developers Posted this in news, but just realized it's moderated only - please delete that one. I've re-posted here. Interesting article, supported by David Braben: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16316439 To think this tiny thing is probably many times more powerful than a classic Amiga. How far we have come! Specs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi It's going to be used to encourage youngsters to program from home, like the golden age of computing. Also they are preparing a RISC OS 5, like we used to use on the Arc at school. Last edited by Bloodwych; 23 December 2011 at 17:35.

27 December 2011, 12:34	#16
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Woohoo! This is wonderful - a 'proper' computer; cheap enough to be an impulse buy, simple enough to attract new blood in to development, and yet powerful enough to be useful... ...the moment RiscOS 5 is out for it I shall buy at least one. Hmm, I wonder how overclockable / hackable it is..? I had been toying with cramming a PC in to an Oric Atmos case I have laying about but, yawn, been there & done that... ...this would be more fun and more 'home computery'... Model A or Model B, eh? My wishful thinking smells a new BBC computer literacy project and TV series. Please, please, please... Maybe not main-stream. but a regular 'Sky at Night' slot would be lovely. I wonder if the old presenters are still alive? Ian: Right Chris, you have your Raspberry, is your soldering iron up to temperature? Chris: Which end do I hold? ...Oh, joy! :-) P.S. Hello, a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all. I'm not dead, just very busy. Last edited by Charlie; 27 December 2011 at 12:53.

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23 December 2011, 17:11	#3
Conundrum Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: dunno Posts: 70	But the real question now is, will David ever finish Elite 3?

23 December 2011, 17:53	#4
imigger Banned Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: england Posts: 135	what a waste of time and money kids only want to play with buttons and this hasnt got very many if any , and languages are hard to understand even basic, so whats a kid going to do with it ohh yes nothing , what a croc, nobody would bother learning anything on this device ,if a young person wants to learn how to create something then i suggest using a game engine , because if you dont you wouldt ever get anything good. this computer is just another dust gaverer a complete bit of crap, you can get a 7 inch android for 40 quid you can use it and learn to program an arm cpu onit ,and it still does everything else. im ranting but im fedup with the backward people in this world that have no sense, theres only so much resources in the world for christ sake. there more important things in life are can jimmy put a plug on can he fix his own stuff these are the lost trates , not would jimmy like to play on a really crap small computer.. sados

23 December 2011, 19:58	#5
Allen1 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Blyth England Age: 68 Posts: 786	For the price, its something for even us older folk to buy and have a play around with. Who knows how far something like this could go or even be expanded upon, I reckon that I would buy one for myself but there again I like to tinker with stuff and something like this would keep me happy for a good while and its a lot cheaper than a night out with the added bonus of you can always use it again and again. Maybe this will turn out to be a good console emulator as its programming advances, you never know!

23 December 2011, 20:57	#7
gunni Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Dunfermline Posts: 141	@imigger I believe the device was originally aimed at schools to get kids coding again in computer classes instead of just learning to be office drones - a BBC Micro for today if you will. Totally agree about trades though... can never find an electrician or plumber when you need one. Universities need to stop giving degrees in stupid subjects too - hospitality being a prime example: good going kid, it took 4 years of uni so you can carry food from the kitchen to my table... your parents must be proud. I'll stop there before I go into a full scale rant on the state of the education system! @Allen1 there has already been one expansion board announced http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/411 a GPIO board for motors, sensors, etc.

23 December 2011, 21:32	#8
jimbob Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kilmacolm Age: 45 Posts: 632	I think this is a neat idea but I'm not sure it can achieve it's aims of educating a new generation in down to metal computer understanding and coding. It all depends on the development environment and libraries which will require existing developers to create and then of course the kids won't learn about the guts and nuts and bolts. I don't see ARM plus linux being nearly as accesible to kids as speccy or C64. Linux is a bit of a monster. I reckon it will more successful as an arduino type platform for hobbyist engineer types. Maybe the kids will learn by playing with dad I guess. Depends on the capabilities of it's GPIO pins, but it is cheaper and way more powerful than arduino. The involvement of David Braben is likely very appealing to this crowd also. The generation it is supposedly aimed at will say "David Who?" Imigger, your rant is a bit off target I think. I take the point but wiring a plug, come off it, it takes all sorts to make the world go round, I bet there are plenty excellent coders you would be very unwise to let near your electricals, what is the expression, beware of programmers baring screwdrivers. I reckon there is a risk of certain computing skills disappearing as a generation of programmers retire and die off, this is at least an attempt to do something about it. Someone, has to be able to write future hardware drivers, operating systems, compilers, all the hard stuff you need to be a complete bithead to do.

23 December 2011, 21:52	#9
PaulyQ Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hartlepool, UK Age: 53 Posts: 237	I for one think this is a fantastic little piece of electronics, I for one would and AM going to buy one of these and see what I can do with it, I've had an Amiga, a PC and always want a return to the days of the 80's were you build or program something to actually work.

23 December 2011, 22:44	#11
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Thanks prowler; twas me being dumb!

26 December 2011, 21:46	#12
Lorfarius Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Glossop/UK Posts: 532	I think it's a great idea. I work in a UK secondary school and talking to the head of ICT he's often commenting on how education is geared towards Microsoft Office, word, excel etc. Basically training kids what it's like to work in an office, he misses the old days from the early 90's when there was some programming involved.

26 December 2011, 22:53	#13
rue Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: UK Posts: 15	It's a wonderful aim and I hope they find success with it. Funny to think that this tiny board with a mobile SOC probably has more than enough computational power for the average user and here we are, and probably will for the next handful of years, using relatively expensive and power hungry machines that are when you think about it grossly overpowered for what most people use them for. Anyway, is anyone here thinking of nabbing one to see if they can hack it into (or under) a keyboard case?

27 December 2011, 11:05	#15
Paul_s Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Amigaville Age: 46 Posts: 3,334	Nice idea and I'm sure some kids in UK schools will enjoy learning with this device and who knows, inspire someone to be a great programmer. I do have my reservations though - it'd be like giving a kid a 56kbps modem and asking them to surf the net with it. I just can't see many having the patience to learn code with how kids are these days wanting everything 'instantly'. It's a far cry to when many of us were at school and computing was 'fun' and in that age when people were 'really' interested in programming and how these things worked! Can you imagine a Facebook update 'wowsers I just made my computer print screen on a loop saying 'I am cool' with my 'Raspberry Pi'... nah.

01 January 2012, 20:22	#17
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Anyone want to bid on one of the prototype boards? fleaBay auction

01 January 2012, 20:46	#18
jimmy2x2x Beyond Mutton Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: North West, UK Age: 52 Posts: 347	WOW they are really fetching in the dollars!

01 January 2012, 21:16	#19
gunni Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Dunfermline Posts: 141	wow indeed! :O

02 January 2012, 16:18	#20
imigger Banned Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: england Posts: 135	yeah ok then lets just watch it flop in england lol , there better things out there to get kids into and at the end of the day i want my kinds to be practical and actualy learn something of some use, this is not it and never will be, considering how the wages for IT have dropped and disapeared ,IT isnt worth learning if you want kids to learn sumit try electrician or builder not IT its dead in the water ,i would sooner they did more sports to keep them fit not stuck in watching a screen they get enough of that at home. but as for the thread we will wait and see but ill say goodbye to it now ,just like all the other cheap computer bbc sinclair and countless others.

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