CD32 vs Floppy versions

[th4t1guy]

Originally Posted by Akira

But why keep comparing it to what was available in the market at the time? Just take it at face value and unless you hate Amiga games, this is a great machine!

A game asking for a code is not the machine's fault is it? More like the developers being lazy shovelwarers.

Sure, it's just something that gets brought up whenever I show it to someone. But with expansions, it's a great Amiga (cf cards, usb adapters, plipbox, etc.). And you don't have to worry about a yellowing case!

[turrican3]

If i can add someting :
the pcengine owner had horrible sound chipset ! They were surely happy to have cdda. The cd32 doesn't have really this appeal because of paul which was a wonderfull audio chip; less good than cdda but the difference isn't blatent like with the pcengine.
It could perhaps have been different if the publishers paid an orchestra to remake the tracks but it was rarely the case.
All in all the cd audio doesn't have enough appeal because paula was already very good.

Off course there were many other things to do with the cd-rom format but the use of cd-audio track was the easier to accomplish but when you think that some publishers doesn't even use it !! It was a shame !!

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by th4t1guy

But with expansions, it's a great Amiga (cf cards, usb adapters, plipbox, etc.). And you don't have to worry about a yellowing case!

I just think it's lovely as it is. No expansions. Why turn it into what it isn't? There's PLENTY of Amiga -computers-
Probably the problem is whoever you show it to doesn't actually like Amiga games. Possibly someone who grew up on Japanese consoles would not get/like Amiga games at all and would compare to their reference frame which is completely different.

That's why I said, if you hate/dislike Amiga games, the CD32 will be shit.
I guess maybe Amiga games just don't feel too console-y in general, and guys like you and I are used to them and appreciate them but it is totally different for "outsiders".
Even if you expand it the games will be the same "piece of shit" games

Originally Posted by turrican3

when you think that some publishers doesn't even use it !! It was a shame !!

Can you really blame them?
Hiring musicians to redo/make a soundtrack on CD for games on a platform doomed to die soon doesn't sound like a great investment for publishers or developers.
Thankfully we did get some gems like the Skeleton Krew CD32 soundtrack, but probably because Martin Ivesson thought "wtf I have all this gear already, and I work in-house at Core, let's do this".

[th4t1guy]

Originally Posted by Akira

I just think it's lovely as it is. No expansions. Why turn it into what it isn't?

Except for the gamepad.

IMO, the Amiga is all about unofficial expansions and going beyond what it was designed for. Being able to run ClassicWB or similar with some of the modern trimmings adds a level coolness that you can't really get with any other console....especially one as old as it is.

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by Akira

Can you really blame them?
Hiring musicians to redo/make a soundtrack on CD for games on a platform doomed to die soon doesn't sound like a great investment for publishers or developers.
Thankfully we did get some gems like the Skeleton Krew CD32 soundtrack, but probably because Martin Ivesson thought "wtf I have all this gear already, and I work in-house at Core, let's do this".

I blame more commodore they had a true jewel with the amiga technologies and what they did with it is simply a big shame !! I still think that the amiga should have still around those days ! In the 80's it had the best gfx, the best sound, one of the best OS... And what they did with it ??? amiga 500 + a600, a1200, amiga cd32. they weren't bad machines, but they weren't revolutions like the amiga 1000 and the amiga 500 were !

[Glen M]

I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with Akira. The CD32 is hands down the best Amiga gaming experience. Burn a disc and away you go, it really is that easy. No mucking about with floppies etc. The TF328 opens a door to a larger library at your fingertips. But there are CD compilations out there that do the same thing.

For those developers that did take the time to invest something into it, the CD32 does have the better version. Off the top of my head a stand out example is Guardian. Exactly the same gameplay, grpahics etc between A1200 and CD32 but the CD Audio music just lifts it to the next level.

Akira is correct though. Commodore was on its knees at the launch of the CD32. If I'm correct I've read reports that they had to pay for some components in cash. No credit was being offered to them. When it gets to that stage the company is sinking and couple with the court case / law suite in america restricting the sale of the console it was a no win scenario.

In every industry when there is even an hint at a company going south most everyone working with them will tread very carefully, will not extend credit, will demand payment up front, will closely scrutinize payments being made. I see it all the time in the construction industry. Once a company is on a downward spiral it becomes difficult to pull out.

Developers knew this. There is no way a developer is pouring money into a new system from a dying company when that very system can run existing software that can be ported in not 5 minutes.

As I said before I think there is a tendency to try and compare the CD32 to the playstation, saturn, 3d0, jaguar era of consoles (I get my generations mixed up, 4th gen?) It'd prefer to see it as more of the end of the Mega Drive (mega CD), SNES era and compared there its the best console of the bunch.

Of course all that argument is 20 - 25 years old now so maybe its time to let that go and admit that the CD32 is the best plarform for Amiga gaming.

[Marle]

Absolutely agree, no point disecting the whats and wherefores of the CD32 and its contemporaries again.

It makes sense that the price is driven by how much easier it makes it to play Amiga games and it's a much neater solution say under a TV than perhaps a big A1200 sitting underneath it.

I think it's a shame so that the CD storage space wasn't put to better use but I have heard the CD32 was rushed to market due to Commodore's financial woes so I guess developers were caught out by that.

You could create a truly beautiful Amiga game with gorgeous 2D pixel art with what CD storage space opens up. It just needs big teams of directors/designers/artists/coders and time to make use of it.

[Lorfarius]

Originally Posted by Glen M

I'd put its recent popularity down to a few things.

1. The TF328 expansion with a CF card filled with WHDLoad makes the console very attractive as a compact amiga gaming experience.
2. The compact size and styling of the console sits better in the living room rather than the wedge computers.
3. Retro gaming in general seems to follow a 25-30 year revival so perhaps its just the CD32s turn for the casual retro gamer looking an amiga experience.
4. An Amiga console is maybe less daunting to the general retro gamer over an Amiga computer.
5. It has a fair bit of coverage on youtube of late from Retro Man Cave and GadgetUK.

There's also going to be a dedicated CD32 history episode on the AMIGArama podcast soon. Been digging through loads of books, articles etc. to come up with something interesting. Will also be looking at the launch titles and interesting stories depending on what I can find out.

[SimonCD32]

CD32 versions get played on my CD32 and floppy disks get played on my a2000.

Now thats the difference.

[touko]

Originally Posted by turrican3

If i can add someting :
the pcengine owner had horrible sound chipset ! They were surely happy to have cdda.

You'd be surprised how good it can sound if well used,and not as it was often,like a basic PSG with basic waves(sawtooth,square or sinus) :
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https://soundcloud.com/diagamblic/de...at-jredd-turbo

In fact the soundchip is really good and flexible,it can do many type of complex sounds .

[gjb1985]

Originally Posted by Akira

I think that "somehow" was the magic of "Made In Japan"


All things considered, the Mega CD library is poor.

the mega cd library isn't poor at all. In fact I consider it to be the most underrated system of all time and it's definitely in my top 8 favorite systems of all time and I own and played pretty much all of them

[jotd]

what's good in the CD32 is that all controls had to be designed to fit on the joypad. No more strange keys like F1 for pause or spacebar or alt, enter ludicriously long passwords with the keyboard... Put your CD, plug your joypad, and play, and enjoy sfx+cd music at the same time.

The limit being games with big savegame data (cadaver), or games requiring fastmem to run/uncompress quickly.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Glen M

As I said before I think there is a tendency to try and compare the CD32 to the playstation, saturn, 3d0, jaguar era of consoles (I get my generations mixed up, 4th gen?) It'd prefer to see it as more of the end of the Mega Drive (mega CD), SNES era and compared there its the best console of the bunch.

Except it isn't. Try to reproduce Super Metroid or Super Mario World 2 on the CD32.

Of course all that argument is 20 - 25 years old now so maybe its time to let that go and admit that the CD32 is the best plarform for Amiga gaming.

Except it isn't. For Amiga gaming, get an Amiga with a keyboard and WHDload.

[gjb1985]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Except it isn't. Try to reproduce Super Metroid or Super Mario World 2 on the CD32.



Except it isn't. For Amiga gaming, get an Amiga with a keyboard and WHDload.

or better yet get an amiga cd32 with tf328 and whdload. plays virtually any amiga game and also plays any amiga cd32 game.

getting a keyboard and a mouse on the cd32 is easy and it has better controllers like the custom made snes version.

I got rid of my amiga 1200 because I don't need it anymore and it's much more comfortable to just use one console among all my other consoles.

[Glen M]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Except it isn't. Try to reproduce Super Metroid or Super Mario World 2 on the CD32.



Except it isn't. For Amiga gaming, get an Amiga with a keyboard and WHDload.

Super Metroid is no better than Turrican.

A SNES couldn't play Super Mario World 2 without the extra hardware in the cartridge i.e. the superfx2 chip.

The CD32 argument is 20-25 years old and that is a FACT. The console is what it is and the games are what they are. The console is more suited to the living room setting and it will play 99% of Amiga games flawlessly. A mouse and keyboard can be easily added if you need it but with the community there are plenty of CD32 versions being put other there that make use of the joypad rather than a kayboard.

If the computer is your thing then fine. I too own an A1200 and 2 A500, I'd rather play games like Frontier or Civilization on the A1200 as they are more suited to that platform. Most other games play better on the console with the multi-button joypad (were properly implemented).

But if you want to reduce it to petty my console is bigger than yours arguments.....

Could a SNES run Guardian or gloom? I don't think so without extra hardware.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by Glen M

Super Metroid is no better than Turrican.

You're joking, right?

Whilst Turrican 2 & 3 are extremely impressive by Amiga standards, they're shit compared to Super Metroid.

[Glen M]

Metroid doesn't offer anything in terms of graphics or sound design that the amiga couldn't do. There's maybe a couple of uses of snes screen modes that outshine the amiga but in terms of the core technical aspects of the game there is nothing there the amiga could do if not better.

I'm not referring to gameplay however as that is subjective and super metroid may very well be the better game. I'm just saying that in my opinion the cd32 could have technically ran it no problem.

[Mikerochip]

I'm guessing you've never played Super Metroid.
It's definitely not anywhere close to what Turrican is, in gameplay or technically.

Originally Posted by Glen M

Metroid doesn't offer anything in terms of graphics or sound design that the amiga couldn't do.

Which Amiga? The SNES had a 16-bit DSP with 8 channels.
Doesn't every Amiga have 8-bit sound over 4 channels?
(Or that software stereo 14-bit sound trick)

So, for a start, it can play 4 more channels of sound?
And in a (much) higher resolution that the Amiga.
True the CD32 had CD Audio.

You could probably switch out (some of) the sound for CD Audio, but you're still left with the crappy sound effects. So, a mixed bag there.

And as for colour, the SNES had 256 colour palette, from 32,000 colours, only the AGA machines could match that. The OCS/ECS definitely couldn't?
They could only do 32 colours at once, like the Megadrive.

(We'll not mention the Mode7 stuff from the SNES either)

And number of sprites? The Amiga has ... I'm not sure. Someone can correct me, but I think it's less than 16? The SNES has (a limit) of 128 sprites, but really it's less than half that. So, on paper, the SNES murders the Amiga!
(Definitely the OCS/ECS machines, less so the AGA machines)

That's where the CD32 would fall down. 32 sprites per scanline, is something the CD32 could only dream of.
Even the Megadrive had 64 hardware sprites. (And 16 per scanline)
(And we won't mention the Sega VDP. Which murders the Amgia, even the AGA ones, in what it could do)

It's joypad had more buttons too. And 5 player support.

So. No, in my opinion, The Amiga couldn't do console gaming like the SNES could. But more importantly, it didn't.

The CD32 is a generation ahead of what the SNES and Megadrive (and MegaCD and to a lesser extent, the 32X) were, but it didn't feel like it.

It's an amazing machine, but it's not a machine purpose built to play games, like the previous generation of consoles it's trying to better.

Over on LemonAmiga, there's a pretty decent discussion about the CD32 vs SNES vs Megadrive.

http://www.lemonamiga.com/forum/view...5c148480c93dcb

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Glen M

Super Metroid is no better than Turrican.

A SNES couldn't play Super Mario World 2 without the extra hardware in the cartridge i.e. the superfx2 chip.

If the hardware is in the cartridge, it is there. You can't add any hardware to a CD-ROM. This is a bogus argument, since you buy a game, not a piece of hardware.

The CD32 argument is 20-25 years old and that is a FACT. The console is what it is and the games are what they are. The console is more suited to the living room setting and it will play 99% of Amiga games flawlessly. A mouse and keyboard can be easily added if you need it but with the community there are plenty of CD32 versions being put other there that make use of the joypad rather than a kayboard.

Unfortunately, CD32 games do not always make use even of something as basic as the extremely shitty CD32 joypad. Have you played Battletoads on the CD32? One button only, OCS graphics and a limited playfield that makes the game look like a NES game. It would never have passed Nintendo's quality department as a SNES game.

If the computer is your thing then fine. I too own an A1200 and 2 A500, I'd rather play games like Frontier or Civilization on the A1200 as they are more suited to that platform. Most other games play better on the console with the multi-button joypad (were properly implemented).

Except it's not properly implemented. You have no such guarantee, and where applicable, the same joypad will work on an A1200. It's not a question of having a computer, it's a question of being able to pause a game or even to access the menu or use abilities mapped to the space button.

Could a SNES run Guardian or gloom? I don't think so without extra hardware.

Guardian is a feeble contender to Starwing.
Gloom? Probably not, but the SNES did have Wolfenstein 3D and Gloom on the CD32 is by no means an exhilarating experience.

[Amigajay]

Keep this thread on topic and keep the CD32/Amiga bashing elsewhere thanks!