GOLD2.10 core released for Vampire V2 - Page 3

JimDrew · 31 July 2018, 02:05

The Mac OS is broken with v2.10 GOLD. v2.8 GOLD works fine. Running FUSION v3.2.

The Mac stops booting right after the palette change (which is after the "Welcome to Macintosh" dialog box). Using the same SAGA driver for both v2.10 and v2.8 (and v2.8 works). So, either the SBCD "fix" is broken or there was some change to the FPU code that breaks the Mac.

Same issue with Shapeshifter on the same A2000/V500 VAMPIRE setup. I can flash v2.10 and it doesn't work, then flash v2.8 and it works.. back to v2.10 it doesn't, and v2.8 it does. I did this 6 times back and forth, all with the same result.

So, for my customers using FUSION, go back to the stable v2.8 GOLD release.

Sinphaltimus · 31 July 2018, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

The Mac OS is broken with v2.10 GOLD. v2.8 GOLD works fine. Running FUSION v3.2.

The Mac stops booting right after the palette change (which is after the "Welcome to Macintosh" dialog box). Using the same SAGA driver for both v2.10 and v2.8 (and v2.8 works). So, either the SBCD "fix" is broken or there was some change to the FPU code that breaks the Mac.

Same issue with Shapeshifter on the same A2000/V500 VAMPIRE setup. I can flash v2.10 and it doesn't work, then flash v2.8 and it works.. back to v2.10 it doesn't, and v2.8 it does. I did this 6 times back and forth, all with the same result.

So, for my customers using FUSION, go back to the stable v2.8 GOLD release.

Can you try 2.9? I can confirm shapeshifter works in 2.9. Can't speak for Fusion tho'.

I say 2.9 because I think that is where the new expansion port pins are reassigned so anyone connecting ethernet via expansion port using the wiki pinouts can fry the vampire if it's wired for the 2.9 instructions and they are on 2.8. The 2.9 pinout assignments are the only ones I know of for the expansion port.

Basically, anyone who wants to use the expansion port will need at least Core 2.9.

JimDrew · 31 July 2018, 02:59

Yep... v2.9 works fine.

I thought this might be a speed issue, but my Vampire boards work at x12 just fine.

So, with the Mac OS with x11 v2.8 and x10 v2.9 work fine. x11 or x12 v2.10 does not work.

Everything else seems to work with the v2.10 GOLD core, at either x11 or x12. So, I guessing that a CPU/FPU instruction was broken with v2.10. The Mac OS uses every single 680x0 instruction available... literally.

pcotter · 31 July 2018, 08:53

I can also confirm that Shapeshifter boots fine on Gold 2.10. Both x11 and x12. Pal and Rtg

TuKo · 31 July 2018, 11:52

GOLD2.10 works fine here on ShapeShifter, I even got it online with iCab and our latest multicast compatible driver. I'll record a video later today.

buggs · 31 July 2018, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

Same issue with Shapeshifter on the same A2000/V500 VAMPIRE setup. I can flash v2.10 and it doesn't work, then flash v2.8 and it works.. back to v2.10 it doesn't, and v2.8 it does. I did this 6 times back and forth, all with the same result.

Shapeshifter works here at v2.10. See attached picture.

TuKo · 31 July 2018, 18:48

Just recorded a small video of it
[ Show youtube player ]

meynaf · 31 July 2018, 18:53

Testing doesn't look very useful without knowing which version of Mac OS actually fails...

Marlon_ · 31 July 2018, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggs

Shapeshifter works here at v2.10. See attached picture.

What's that board to the left of the A500?

kolla · 31 July 2018, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by grond

So now with the updated library you can use the Vampire FPU without side effects?

Depends entirely on the software in question. The rounding errors when doing apparently simple math is the most annoying, showing up as funny "side effects" in rexx scripts and whatever (see attachment for example). I rather keep FPU off by default, and only enable it for specific "safe" tasks.

I think "the team" should provide math libs substitutes as a work around.

JimDrew · 02 August 2018, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by meynaf

Testing doesn't look very useful without knowing which version of Mac OS actually fails...

Ah, true! I am using Mac OS8.1. Quadra 950 ROM. I didn't realize you could turn off the FPU with v2.10. I should try that. The Mac OS runs WAY better on the VAMPIRE without the FPU (older cores) anyways because it needs the 96 bit precision (especially OS8.1) for everything. When there is no FPU available (like with a LC040), the Mac OS uses all integer routines instead of floating point.

TuKo · 02 August 2018, 09:00

My vid was using default GOLD2.10 FPU setting (=ON) and Quadra 950 ROM on OS3.9 based distribution (coffin).
Your problem sits elsewhere Jim.

kolla · 02 August 2018, 09:39

Is it normal for Chooser to say 7.6.1 on 8.1?

JimDrew · 02 August 2018, 19:08

No - if Chooser shows 7.6.1 then that is the actual Mac OS version. I am using OS8.1 (not 7.6.1) with my setup. OS8.1 was the best/fastest Mac OS released, and the last 68K compatible version.

There is something definitely wrong with v2.10 running Mac OS8.1. I was able to run Mac OS7.5 with it, but OS8.1 hangs when it goes to start up. OS8.1 is quite a bit different from OS7.x, especially the FPU usage.

Flashing v2.8 or v2.9 allows the emulation to start up. Flashing back to v2.10 makes the Amiga hang completely (no crash - just no response, ie. Amiga-M/N doesn't work to switch screens, requires Amiga to be powered off!). No other changes - just flashing back and forth between cores. I also tried with and without the Picasso96 driver, so this is not RTG related.

TuKo · 02 August 2018, 20:14

Jim, could you post screenshot of your Chooser app window on MacOS 8.1 ?

Here is mine :

Following this approach, I think MacOS 9.1 should be considered then as MacOS 7.6.2.

AMIGASYSTEM · 02 August 2018, 20:58

If it can serve this it is Chooser app window on MacOS 8.01 on WiUAE/AFA-OS

kolla · 02 August 2018, 21:25

Well, wow, he fell for it

Crom · 05 August 2018, 14:50

Hi Jim!

Here is my Vampire 600 v 2.1 running MacOS using my Fusion install from back in the day on the latest Apollo Gold core. Works for me.

https://imgur.com/EEMZsjy

Crom · 06 August 2018, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

There is something definitely wrong with v2.10 running Mac OS8.1. I was able to run Mac OS7.5 with it, but OS8.1 hangs when it goes to start up. OS8.1 is quite a bit different from OS7.x, especially the FPU usage.

Hi Jim,
So does your interest level regarding comaptability with Gold core 2.10 and OS 8.1 mean you are developing a future 68k version of Fusion for Amiga 68k with 020/030/040/060/080 in mind?

Cheers!

JimDrew · 07 August 2018, 19:55

Yes. There is something broke in v2.10 though. I have narrowed it down to an instruction issue for sure, but I am not sure if it is FPU or CPU. The Amiga actually hangs - as in it requires a physical power off. Not even CTRL-Amiga-Amiga works!

I went back to older versions of FUSION and the same problem occurs. My MacOS 8.1 is the universal installer version, so I have ALL of the various Mac system resource files available. It looks like this issue occurs at some point of loading a resource, but since I don't have access to the Amiga (because it is hung) I can't just go look in Mac memory to determine what resource it is - so I have a debug version that is saving things to CHIP memory at $80000, but this erased (most of the time) even with a fast power off/power on. It makes debugging this a nightmare.

Now that Mikej has the 68060 daughter boards out for the Replay, I am very interested in producing a new version of FUSION. With Replay's daughter board 060 running up to 135MHz it will be the fastest (Amiga based) Mac in the world. Can't wait to post some benchmarks, especially FPU!

31 July 2018, 02:59	#43
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	Yep... v2.9 works fine. I thought this might be a speed issue, but my Vampire boards work at x12 just fine. So, with the Mac OS with x11 v2.8 and x10 v2.9 work fine. x11 or x12 v2.10 does not work. Everything else seems to work with the v2.10 GOLD core, at either x11 or x12. So, I guessing that a CPU/FPU instruction was broken with v2.10. The Mac OS uses every single 680x0 instruction available... literally. Last edited by JimDrew; 31 July 2018 at 04:01.

02 August 2018, 19:08	#54
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	No - if Chooser shows 7.6.1 then that is the actual Mac OS version. I am using OS8.1 (not 7.6.1) with my setup. OS8.1 was the best/fastest Mac OS released, and the last 68K compatible version. There is something definitely wrong with v2.10 running Mac OS8.1. I was able to run Mac OS7.5 with it, but OS8.1 hangs when it goes to start up. OS8.1 is quite a bit different from OS7.x, especially the FPU usage. Flashing v2.8 or v2.9 allows the emulation to start up. Flashing back to v2.10 makes the Amiga hang completely (no crash - just no response, ie. Amiga-M/N doesn't work to switch screens, requires Amiga to be powered off!). No other changes - just flashing back and forth between cores. I also tried with and without the Picasso96 driver, so this is not RTG related. Last edited by JimDrew; 02 August 2018 at 19:22.

02 August 2018, 20:14	#55
TuKo Apollo Team Join Date: May 2014 Location: not far Posts: 379	Jim, could you post screenshot of your Chooser app window on MacOS 8.1 ? Here is mine : Following this approach, I think MacOS 9.1 should be considered then as MacOS 7.6.2. Last edited by TuKo; 02 August 2018 at 20:29.

02 August 2018, 20:58	#56
AMIGASYSTEM Registered User Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Brindisi (Italy) Age: 70 Posts: 8,248	If it can serve this it is Chooser app window on MacOS 8.01 on WiUAE/AFA-OS Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 24 August 2018 at 08:46.

07 August 2018, 19:55	#60
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	Yes. There is something broke in v2.10 though. I have narrowed it down to an instruction issue for sure, but I am not sure if it is FPU or CPU. The Amiga actually hangs - as in it requires a physical power off. Not even CTRL-Amiga-Amiga works! I went back to older versions of FUSION and the same problem occurs. My MacOS 8.1 is the universal installer version, so I have ALL of the various Mac system resource files available. It looks like this issue occurs at some point of loading a resource, but since I don't have access to the Amiga (because it is hung) I can't just go look in Mac memory to determine what resource it is - so I have a debug version that is saving things to CHIP memory at $80000, but this erased (most of the time) even with a fast power off/power on. It makes debugging this a nightmare. Now that Mikej has the 68060 daughter boards out for the Replay, I am very interested in producing a new version of FUSION. With Replay's daughter board 060 running up to 135MHz it will be the fastest (Amiga based) Mac in the world. Can't wait to post some benchmarks, especially FPU! Last edited by JimDrew; 08 August 2018 at 00:55.

31 July 2018, 02:05	#41
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	The Mac OS is broken with v2.10 GOLD. v2.8 GOLD works fine. Running FUSION v3.2. The Mac stops booting right after the palette change (which is after the "Welcome to Macintosh" dialog box). Using the same SAGA driver for both v2.10 and v2.8 (and v2.8 works). So, either the SBCD "fix" is broken or there was some change to the FPU code that breaks the Mac. Same issue with Shapeshifter on the same A2000/V500 VAMPIRE setup. I can flash v2.10 and it doesn't work, then flash v2.8 and it works.. back to v2.10 it doesn't, and v2.8 it does. I did this 6 times back and forth, all with the same result. So, for my customers using FUSION, go back to the stable v2.8 GOLD release.

31 July 2018, 08:53	#44
pcotter Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 122	I can also confirm that Shapeshifter boots fine on Gold 2.10. Both x11 and x12. Pal and Rtg

31 July 2018, 11:52	#45
TuKo Apollo Team Join Date: May 2014 Location: not far Posts: 379	GOLD2.10 works fine here on ShapeShifter, I even got it online with iCab and our latest multicast compatible driver. I'll record a video later today.

31 July 2018, 18:48	#47
TuKo Apollo Team Join Date: May 2014 Location: not far Posts: 379	Just recorded a small video of it [ Show youtube player ]

31 July 2018, 18:53	#48
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,323	Testing doesn't look very useful without knowing which version of Mac OS actually fails...

02 August 2018, 09:00	#52
TuKo Apollo Team Join Date: May 2014 Location: not far Posts: 379	My vid was using default GOLD2.10 FPU setting (=ON) and Quadra 950 ROM on OS3.9 based distribution (coffin). Your problem sits elsewhere Jim.

02 August 2018, 09:39	#53
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	Is it normal for Chooser to say 7.6.1 on 8.1?

02 August 2018, 21:25	#57
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	Well, wow, he fell for it

05 August 2018, 14:50	#58
Crom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: NJ USA Posts: 43	Hi Jim! Here is my Vampire 600 v 2.1 running MacOS using my Fusion install from back in the day on the latest Apollo Gold core. Works for me. https://imgur.com/EEMZsjy

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