01 March 2017, 18:00 | #61 | |
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@all I do not understand the hate against Cloanto, at least not regarding my contacts. They were friendly and I do not pay the roms but the whole package. It would be the same as moaning that someone asks money for a linux distribution. You pay for the work, not just the roms. If they were not, where would you get the roms legally? The idea that Hyperion and AmigaInc would have open sourced them then sounds not very propable to me. Regarding Aros, Aros is very compatible today and includes advanced features unseen on 3.X but of course (how already mentioned) it needs optimizations when running on real hardware and it certainly will never beat amiga os on the old hardware. But it is the only realistic path to go in my view. Last edited by OlafSch; 01 March 2017 at 18:09. |
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01 March 2017, 18:04 | #62 | ||
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depending on what you want i can send you a default config file for fs-uae you can modify for your configuration. but the question is, what do you want to do. aros is currently undergoing a heavy maintenance, about 20-30 commits a day, in order to implement multicore support, so a build and therefore a nightly can be broken at any time. |
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01 March 2017, 18:10 | #63 |
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it wouldnt do any harm either way. once again: it simply wont happen. whoever want to code an update to amiga system behind a trash bin in an abandoned backyard basing it on leaked code is welcome to do so. wont happen as well. believe me.
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01 March 2017, 18:14 | #64 |
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I only answered the theoretical sentence, certainly it will not happen. And from what legal devs reported it would be not usable on modern compilers either, someone would need to spend lots of time to integrate it in a modern compiler. It would (theoretical) be interesting for f.e. Aros to close some shortcomings in aros or make code more compatible where needed but finally noone really needs it anymore.
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01 March 2017, 18:23 | #65 |
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sorry olaf, that "believe me" was actually addressed at people dragging out the same utopic ideas out every once a while.
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01 March 2017, 18:38 | #66 |
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Dragging up these topics once in a while is good. There might be new people to the community that have differing ideas that might lead somewhere. This isn't like the old adage "What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result." New people bring new ideas sometimes good sometimes bad.
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01 March 2017, 18:39 | #67 | ||
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MAybe you mean number of users? I don't measure it that way. I measure it in teh way of output, and when an independent developer, a fansite maker, tries to get in and is rear-ended by Cloanto's "legal" machine, I see great damage.
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The fact remains: that Amiga video of the launch, which as you said can be protected by fair anyway, is nowhere to be seen by the community. Quote:
Youtube doesn't check ownership of takedown notices. If I go now and claim one of your videos as my own, they will go and take it down, even if I am lying. As for their contributions, we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't think anyone needing to get into Amiga emulation, old or new, should be paying for it. And I will repeat my point of before: more people using an emulator does not mean to me a betterment or enlargement of the "scene", what I want to see is development being empowered, not number of users being enlarged, and every dime spent on a Cloanto pack is a dime that probably doesn't go to an Amiga software or hardware developer, especially considering that the people who get their knickers on a twist about the legality of an Amiga ROM and go buy some Cloanto garbage have NO ISSUES going to Planetemu and downloading all the ADFs they can get their fingers at without paying a dime. Well you got me way off topic. best to leave this discussion go, as we will get nowhere! you always go up in favor of Cloanto and I will always go up against it. That's all. Related to the matter at hand, they don't own all Amiga IP and cannot be policing it around. It needs to be determined who owns Amiga as a brand and trademark and something be done about it. If it expires, what happens? Can it be renewed? |
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01 March 2017, 18:47 | #68 | ||||||
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Last edited by matthey; 01 March 2017 at 19:03. |
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01 March 2017, 18:55 | #69 | |
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Its actually not a choice, it got to be where windows just took too much time so it stole time from other things, I couldn't get anything done I wanted to. Windows is like that co-worker that buys a Kia becayse it has a 10 year warranty so every week he's asking for someone to give him a ride to the dealer, weather the downtime for his car or windows is planned or not its still downtime. The loss of time, the loss of data, etc. But I'm getting too OT.
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Anyway, to get back to a more OT discussion. For purposes of defining what Amiga is or is not, is Amiga just the workbench or kickstart or both? AROS68k is it aimed at replacing both WB and kickstart. I know the x86 runs on top of standard pc hardware so no kickstart there. So I still use the Amiga kickstart if I want to try AROS 68k (even under emulation). If so then technically I can only try 1.3 kickstart since thats all I own (sitting in my closet at the moment). My HP48 for example I did a romdump to use in x48 since since I legally purchased that ROM. I'd need to go buy a 3.1 kickstart to use it. |
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01 March 2017, 18:57 | #70 |
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@Akira
the action around this youtube video certainly was not very wise, if they own the rights or not. The news spreads of course in a small community and damages your reputation and thus the goodwill of potential buyers so it is to me more like a self goal in a economic sense. Assuming Cloanto would not exist do you really think roms would be legal? Me not, neither Hyperion nor AmigaInc ever gave away something for free. My guess is that there would be only Hyperion as legal source asking for a relative high price because they would be only ones offering it legally. But again, all theoretic because it will never happen, Cloanto or no Cloanto. If someone has enough time and money (lots of money) and is willing to spend everything for it, go I have no problem with it. You certainly would need specialised attorneys reviewing all the papers since Commodore assets were sold first time because noone knows for sure right now that the people claiming to own the rights really own it and not believe to own it. It would certainly need a lot of time to examine everything and thus a lot of money. If you finally know who really owns it you can get in contacts and as soon this entity realizes how interested you are they/it will ask for money too. Will be interesting, you can inform me if it is at that point. I personal will (if I do something at all) invest time in the only free option available but everybody is free to do what he/she likes to do. |
01 March 2017, 18:58 | #71 | |
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its really at least puzzliing to see the same subjects, the same participants, the same idas being shared since years without any action. no new members. it seems only that pople forget that they have thrown the very same simple idea around half a year earilier, just a thought, not any research done and will now again discuss it to death waiting for somone else to come and solve them. |
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01 March 2017, 19:13 | #72 | |||
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navigate to: http://aros.sourceforge.net/de/download2.php find latest built archives. amiga-m68k-boot - is a lha archive containing kickstart images. aros-amiga-68k-rom.bin is the base image. aros-amiga-68k-ext.bin is the extended one. reference them in your use settings. if you just want a kickstart. amiga-m68k-bootiso - contains the whole system along with a kickstart files within boot/amiga/ subdir. its a tar.bz of an iso image. you can make it your primary bootable partition and attach the image of your original drive containing your amiga software you want to test alongside. Quote:
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01 March 2017, 19:26 | #73 |
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To make a hybrid of AROS and AmigaOS 3 one only has to resume the work on AfaOS (AROS For Amiga). Bernd started backporting features and libraries from AROS to run on the OS3 kernel.
As for OOP.library and the HIDD format, when it was converted to the 68k, Jason McMullan made single inheritance a special case so it would be library calls thus speeding it up. |
01 March 2017, 19:32 | #74 | |
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Ok, so its just FS-UAE shipping with an older AROS kickstart, if I download a current AROS rom I get a good working one then? When you said the aros kickstart in uae is totally outdated, no use for anything, wont even boot I thought the AROS 68k kickstart in general, so I read that wrong. |
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01 March 2017, 19:32 | #75 | |||||
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as for a proper environment for the task, people are building under very different ones, even osx. i did ubuntu and debian but prefer lubuntu, even though the default editor has no syntax highlighting and managing the terminal history is rather limited. i would put up a virtual machine with whatever popular 32bit linux you like for the task. Quote:
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01 March 2017, 19:34 | #76 | |
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so yes. id assume if a nightly on a location i have gave you above is available, it is working too. |
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01 March 2017, 19:38 | #77 |
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the reason behind afa os was, thate there wasnt aros68k at that time. bernd had to backport only few libraries he has been able to. the result was rather hacky. today its a waste of time in my opinion. instead work should be put into improving aros until its a proper replacement.
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01 March 2017, 19:43 | #78 |
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The necessity of the hidd format is free graphics card support since CyberGraphX is owned by MorphOS developers and Picasso96 was licensed to OS4 and neither is open source.
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01 March 2017, 19:47 | #79 |
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The basic C language itself is portable but pretty much anything else in a C program is not. I can't take my code from a PIC24 and expect it to compile in GCC either.
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01 March 2017, 20:10 | #80 |
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@eugene
here is screenshot of mine lubuntu with yesterdays aros68k compile running in fs-use: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AuvzEgbTrkxP-C3KUU_aPnhTepYR note that you best immediately go to prefs, and disable themeing if you want to use amiga chipset for display, otherwise you will be able to look at how the menus renders with all defaults bells and whisthels like alpha transparency on aplanar screen. themeing can be disabled in appaearance prefs or deleting theme.var from envarc. run screenmode prefs program to choose rtg for more speedup if you are emulating it. disable bakcground images in wanderer prefs program. they eat enormous amount of time. aha. edit the startup sequence, adding "SetPatch QUIET" as known from amiga at the very beginning. i think this are the basics. Last edited by wawa; 01 March 2017 at 20:23. |
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