05 November 2019, 16:15 | #61 | |||||||||||||||
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It makes little to no sense to use Python directly for such things, or only to write appropriate bindings or modules as part of a system integration. Quote:
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Since Python introduces some incompatibilities as it moved from 2.x to 3.x this is an even bigger problem, so some programs need to be adjusted or need a 2.x interpreter to run. It took some years, but 3.x is now widely accepted und the vast majority of applications use it. That is the reason, why a newer version for the Amiga would be nice. Your 68k assembler will also not work on a newer machines, or you have to provide an emulator to do so. Quote:
Handling such low-level stuff is surely not the stronghold of a scripting language, and you would resort to C or assembler to provide libraries or modules doing this. Quote:
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You also admitted to have failed, to come up with something better by yourself. No shame here: it would have been great, if you had and maybe I would love to use it, if you did... But since we can not apply moral criteria to programming languages, it is not possible to judge them to be absolutely good or bad in that sense. "Good" is here a relative statement and applies to languages that are better than others. Quote:
Why replacing? No one suggested that. Accommodating and juxtaposing would be the way to go. The OS4 way of adjusting Python to make use of Arexx-ports is a reasonable way - MorphOS did the same for Lua "Lupa" gives you a bridge between Lua and Python. Quote:
Last edited by Gorf; 05 November 2019 at 16:26. |
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05 November 2019, 16:19 | #62 | |
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And as far as emitting "some small criticism", you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word SMALL. What you actually do is shout out clearly and loudly, with all the subtlety of an exploding hand grenade, with the sole intention of deriding anything and everything YOU don't like. That behaviour is generally called "Trolling". You refer to doing things in ASM being easier and better than a modern high level language... without even paying lip service to the fact that asm is harder to learn, less portable and requires detailed knowledge of the system in question. Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I think you're on a different planet. Planet Troll |
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05 November 2019, 16:55 | #63 | |
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So, what is your complaint now?
No, not at all. There is that thing called facts, something you clearly have issues with. Something worth exploring?? Quote:
Consider this my last post to you, as probably best thing is not to feed troll... |
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05 November 2019, 17:12 | #64 | ||||||||||||||||
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I don't like languages that are ill-suited for half the things i need to do. Quote:
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Because i wanted to see the code implementing the function itself, not merely using it. Quote:
My point was. Quote:
With another smiley. Quote:
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If we compare languages, it is to make choice. Else it is pointless. Sure thing. But who will make it ? It's a lot of work. Quote:
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My complaint is that i just write a few lines with smileys (see post #20) and get attacks in return. Quote:
The fact something is used says nothing about its qualities, and this has already been written in that thread long before i even came in. Quote:
I'm not giving you enough food and so you leave ? |
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05 November 2019, 18:33 | #65 | ||
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If is about choosing the right tool for the task. You can use a sledge-hammer to drive a screw into a wall, also a scalpel might not be the tool to fell a tree... ... but there are better ways. It is a choice the user makes - and different users will make different choices. To have the freedom to do is considered a good thing. Quote:
Last edited by Gorf; 05 November 2019 at 20:54. |
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05 November 2019, 18:55 | #66 | |
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05 November 2019, 19:10 | #67 | |||
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05 November 2019, 19:20 | #68 | |
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Isn't it supposed to be general purpose, instead ? Yeah, like choosing to use a tank to go shopping |
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05 November 2019, 19:31 | #69 | |
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Out of curiosity: Did some of you have considered REBOL ? It exists for a huge amount of platform (maybe I should give a try to the Amiga version to see how it works). |
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05 November 2019, 20:10 | #70 | ||
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of course it is
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The english Wikipedia actually calls it "general purpose", which is wrong in my opinion - german Wikipedia says "universell" - that is closer to turing complete than general purpose, which would be "universell einsetzbar". python.org states: Friendly & Easy to Learn Python is a programming language that lets you work quickly and integrate systems more effectively. Python can be easy to pick up whether you're a first time programmer or you're experienced with other languages. that sums it up quite good. Quote:
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05 November 2019, 20:24 | #71 | ||
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I think it can be a powerful language, but you need to be experienced with programming concepts to tap into that: Quote:
An example of Rebol's dialecting abilities can be seen with the word return. In the data exchange dialect return is just a word not having any specific meaning. In the do dialect, return is a global variable referring to a native function passing back a function result value. In the visual interface dialect (VID), return is a keyword causing the layout engine to simulate a carriage return, moving the "rendering pen" down to the beginning of the next line. So it is meant to give you the tools to create your own task specific dialect ... something that is probably not the best way to guarantee interoperability and code reuse, but may make sense for custom tailored environments. Last edited by Gorf; 05 November 2019 at 20:58. |
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05 November 2019, 20:55 | #72 | |
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I think that the same with scratch, ability to download free tools and start programming made it easier then getting into C#/C++/VB where most of tools are from MS (or other big name companies), and it would seem like monopoly. Also scratch being visual and python quite simple, makes it easier to learn for kids. Never heard about REBOL. |
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05 November 2019, 21:18 | #73 |
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Since it is Carl Sassenrath's* brainchild REBOL got good coverage in Amiga Magazines and many in the Amiga community were interested, but it was closed source from 1992-2012 and ports to Amiga came late ...
I just now struggled to find any REBOL for Amiga ... there is an "RebolLib" on Aminet ... not sure which version it supports... There was once a download option for R3 on the official REBOl page, but it has vanished now.. Solie announced REBOL for OS4 10 years ago - don't know what happened... *) Carl Sassenrath is one of the fathers of Amiga and wrote Exec as well as the book ARKRM: Exec |
05 November 2019, 21:40 | #74 | |
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Here is what Nick Antonaccio (an expert) says about REBOL :
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Regarding the download, you can get it here : REBOL core 68k : http://rebol.com/platforms-core.html REBOL view 68k : http://rebol.com/platforms-view.html R3 is still Alpha Test but an OS4 PPC is here : http://www.rebol.com/r3/downloads.html |
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05 November 2019, 22:47 | #75 |
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Thanks, I somehow couldn't find these links on the page .... Sadly there seems to be no port of R3 except the alpha for OS4. |
06 November 2019, 11:37 | #76 | |
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It's true that at the beginning of the "opening" there was a lot of discussions/activity around r3 (REBOL v3). But since 2012, I don't see any major evolution of the language. Thus I preferred the time when it was closed source as Carl was making it evolving on a regular basis (between small breaks ). Last year Carl announced that Rebol/Command would be available for free (I didn't see it happen - maybe I missed the link ?) . As far as I am aware, r3 is still "core" only and is missing the "view" side. That's true that the "core" is enough for a lot of things, but for me it's the main reason I still prefer to use the latest v2 (I am far from being an expert - just a Sunday coder and thus v2 is enough ) . In this regard of "seems to be frozen" r3, I think that the "red programming language" is maybe a better step forward, not to mention that Carl himself is, since last year, an honorary member of the Red Foundation. Let's see... But enough for OT. It's a python thread Edit: Found this picture interesting and forgot to add it... It's missing REXX (mentioned in this thread) but has ASM, Python & REBOL source: see above link Last edited by malko; 06 November 2019 at 12:55. |
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06 November 2019, 11:44 | #77 | ||
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Like so many other software and programs the step to open source was made, after the closed source approach did not pay off and the project was almost dead... Python is about the same age as REBOL but Guido van Rossum took advantage of the Linux and open source hype in the 90s and now Python is HUGE. Quote:
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07 November 2019, 00:40 | #78 |
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meynaf: "As you started insulting someone who doesn't agree with that (= myself), i assumed this was your point of view. Wrong assumption maybe ?"
Insulting? Where? Wrong assumptions? Oh yes, you seem to make lots of them. As for your definition of trolling, you seem to fit it quite well. You're contrary and argumentative for the sake of it. I'm certainly not the first to notice it. Perhaps a good long look in the mirror would do you some good. |
07 November 2019, 03:56 | #79 |
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@ Ian
Please step back a little and look at things calmly. meynaf's approach to discussions is sometimes provocative (or seems to be), but is actually not trolling, but well... discussing. There is no need to agree or come to a final conclusion in an open discussion, but meynaf will always consider valid points and will always answer on the subject. |
07 November 2019, 04:27 | #80 |
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It seems to me, that there are two ways of looking at Python on Amiga. And yes exactly two and no more.
1) Python is an inefficient scripting language because if it was ported it would either have slow posixivitiy (because ixemul badness maybe) or it would take too long to port into 68k assembly. Also there are other really better great scripting languages on the Amiga which are faster, more native or whatever, so use them instead. 2) Python is another prerequisite for compiling some other application you want to build that probably is multiplatform anyway and those other platforms assume you have Python availability. -This was the reason I tried to build it for WarpOS(and failed to make it a general use Python solution) and it sort of worked for that purpose.- |
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