C64 Games worth Conversion?

[roondar]

Some of the C64 games mentioned here might actually be a nice challenge for an OCS port, the C64's tile based backgrounds and easy ways to make it display tons and tons of sprite pixels can actually be challenging for an A500 to copy without needing to 'cheat'

[mr_a500]

I wouldn't want the C64 version of Blue Max, but the original, superior Atari 8-bit version of Blue Max. I'd also want the Atari version of Montezuma's Revenge and the 5200 version of Centipede.

From the C64, I'd want Battle Thru Time and Spy Hunter.

[Don_Adan]

Originally Posted by Mrz

where I can download this game?

Perhaps here:

https://www.protovision.games/md/info.php?language=en

[Don_Adan]

Btw. for Turrican 3 game perhaps original sources was available in 2004 year, but i cant find working link for t3sourcerelease.zip file, only game data on authors page:

http://www.smash-designs.de/news.html

and Amiga music converted from SID:

[ Show youtube player ]

Nice musician

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by roondar

Some of the C64 games mentioned here might actually be a nice challenge for an OCS port, the C64's tile based backgrounds and easy ways to make it display tons and tons of sprite pixels can actually be challenging for an A500 to copy without needing to 'cheat'

Sprite capabilities of the C64 can be reproduced with the Amiga if you use the Copper to reuse sprites.

And the tile based backgrounds can be made with the blitter unless scroll is *too* fast.

If you want an Amiga game that looks and feels exactly like the C64 version, it should be easy to do.

Problem is that people will expect more from the Amiga version. Then it will become harder to do it

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Sprite capabilities of the C64 can be reproduced with the Amiga if you use the Copper to reuse sprites.

And the tile based backgrounds can be made with the blitter unless scroll is *too* fast.

If you want an Amiga game that looks and feels exactly like the C64 version, it should be easy to do.

Problem is that people will expect more from the Amiga version. Then it will become harder to do it

I know all about Copper reuse of sprites, I did do that 'lets see if I can't fill the entire screen with random sprite data using the copper' thing a while back

However, I really do think you're underestimating the C64 - I'm not saying you can't replicate (most) C64 sprite multiplexers using bobs (and/or sprites, though Amiga sprites lack width compared to C64 sprites so a one-to-one conversion can't be done) on the Amiga, but it's not 'easy' as such. Later life C64 sprite multiplexers could throw some pretty impressive stuff about, both in sprite count and size.

As for tile effects, I was thinking more along the line of tile based animation as seen in say Turrican (see the piranha boss fight, the C64 has the entire screen animating a rather nice looking water effect - note that this effect runs at 50Hz). Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not nearly as easy as you might think initially.

The C64 really was quite impressive from a 'number of pixels moving on screen' perspective. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it could display more sprite pixels in a frame when using a decent multiplexer (during a game anyway) than the Amiga can do bob pixels - assuming both have to use a full size 16 colour screen. Especially if the game to emulate also has an animating background.

[sandruzzo]

Some good 3D games?

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by roondar

I know all about Copper reuse of sprites, I did do that 'lets see if I can't fill the entire screen with random sprite data using the copper' thing a while back

However, I really do think you're underestimating the C64 - I'm not saying you can't replicate (most) C64 sprite multiplexers using bobs (and/or sprites, though Amiga sprites lack width compared to C64 sprites so a one-to-one conversion can't be done) on the Amiga, but it's not 'easy' as such. Later life C64 sprite multiplexers could throw some pretty impressive stuff about, both in sprite count and size.

As for tile effects, I was thinking more along the line of tile based animation as seen in say Turrican (see the piranha boss fight, the C64 has the entire screen animating a rather nice looking water effect - note that this effect runs at 50Hz). Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not nearly as easy as you might think initially.

The C64 really was quite impressive from a 'number of pixels moving on screen' perspective. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it could display more sprite pixels in a frame when using a decent multiplexer (during a game anyway) than the Amiga can do bob pixels - assuming both have to use a full size 16 colour screen. Especially if the game to emulate also has an animating background.

What's the width of C64 sprites? I thought they were just 16 pixels wide.

Though you are right. While I still think you can push the same amount of sprites on Amiga as you can on a C64 using the copper (Look what Mega Typhoon does with it - It's just that people didn't want to see 4 colors sprites on a 16 bits title), tile animation is a whole new deal which is hard for the Amiga to do it.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

What's the width of C64 sprites? I thought they were just 16 pixels wide.

Though you are right. While I still think you can push the same amount of sprites on Amiga as you can on a C64 using the copper (Look what Mega Typhoon does with it - It's just that people didn't want to see 4 colors sprites on a 16 bits title), tile animation is a whole new deal which is hard for the Amiga to do it.

Like the Amiga, the C64 has 8 sprites. C64 sprites are 24 pixels wide and can be hardware doubled to be 48 pixels wide. This latter option results in ugly sprites, but it's very effective for covering big areas.

As for sprite pushing, I'd mostly agree with you - I never said it would impossible to beat the C64, I merely said it's harder than some people on this board consider it to be. Case in point, Mega Typhoon is very impressive. However, it's also known to be one of the OCS chipset technical 'masterpieces' as it were. Almost all Amiga games push considerably less sprite/bob pixels around on screen than that game does. Which shows it's not that easy.

Anyway, I'm not feeling up for a 'big' vs argument and this isn't the thread for it. I think we're mostly agreeing so I'll leave it here

[Asman]

Originally Posted by mr_a500

I'd also want the Atari version of Montezuma's Revenge and the 5200 version of Centipede.

What is the main difference between Atari (I guess you mean about 800xl) and C64 version ?

About Centipede: There are sources for Atari7800 version. Again what is diff between 5200 and 78000 version ?

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by roondar

Like the Amiga, the C64 has 8 sprites. C64 sprites are 24 pixels wide and can be hardware doubled to be 48 pixels wide. This latter option results in ugly sprites, but it's very effective for covering big areas.

As for sprite pushing, I'd mostly agree with you - I never said it would impossible to beat the C64, I merely said it's harder than some people on this board consider it to be. Case in point, Mega Typhoon is very impressive. However, it's also known to be one of the OCS chipset technical 'masterpieces' as it were. Almost all Amiga games push considerably less sprite/bob pixels around on screen than that game does. Which shows it's not that easy.

Anyway, I'm not feeling up for a 'big' vs argument and this isn't the thread for it. I think we're mostly agreeing so I'll leave it here

Mate, no big vs argument from me. I am still learning the Amiga Hardware and I barely know anything about the C64

I agree completely if you resort to BOBs, the Amiga can't touch the C64 on how many things it can move on screen.

I always felt coders didn't use the Sprites + Copper combination more because they would have to resort to 4 colors sprites to use this properly, and no one would want NES alike games on a 16 bits system (And even then, the way the colors are spread among the sprites makes this kinda hard to use too). Or maybe many programmers didn't know how to use the copper to multiplex the sprites properly

But 4 colors sprites was great for what Mega Typhoon was trying to achieve

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Asman

What is the main difference between Atari (I guess you mean about 800xl) and C64 version ?

About Centipede: There are sources for Atari7800 version. Again what is diff between 5200 and 78000 version ?

What I would like on the Amiga is Elevator Action

Weren't you converting the NES versions a while back? Any progress my friend?

[ Show youtube player ]

...but surely an arcade perfect port should be possible on the Amiga?

[Asman]

Originally Posted by DamienD

What I would like on the Amiga is Elevator Action

Weren't you converting the NES versions a while back? Any progress my friend?

[ Show youtube player ]

...but surely an arcade perfect port should be possible on the Amiga?

Sorry too much on stack right now. I just only downloaded nes version and played few times.

[urbanbadger74]

great list! what about Turbocharge

[Nishicorn]

There are so many bad conversions, and so many mediocre ones, it's hard to do a conversion or port justice.

It's better to just get inspired by something, then do your own version from that inspiration, that might be completely different from the original game, but still good. Also, if you have C64 and Amiga, why would you want to play the same games on both, when you can play different games that utilize the strengths of the computers?

There's a deep 'atmosphere' or 'feel' in those old C64 games that can't easily be duplicated even on the marvellous Amiga home computer system. However, the Amiga have its own, great classics, that were not done justice on the awful Sega Megadrive ports, for example.

In my opinion, it would be better to take a game, and break its limitations. For example, make a similar game, but expand it to have way more levels / graphics.

In modern times, it would be possible to do such interesting games that were not possible back in the day because of all kinds of limitations. For example, combining multiple game genres (which would be cumbersome and difficult, but awesome if it worked).

For example, taking Moonstone, and adding an adventure element or have different styles of fighting instead of just a knight mashing sword into creatures. Also, the game area could be 10 or 20 screens instead of one, and there could also be Archon-like fights, International Karate-style fights, SCUMMlike adventuring in some locations, etc.

This would of course be a massive (maybe impossibly so) overtaking, but the end result would be worth it. Just imagine how interesting it would be to play such a large-scale adventure game with beautifully hand-pixelled graphics and interesting locations to explore?

And you would never know what kind of fight you would end up - maybe some fights could be done in a turn-based 'Laser Squad' or 'Heroes of Might and Magic'-style.

But I guess converting some C64 classic that you can play perfectly well on a real C64 would be cool, too.

[Sune Salminen]

Ghettoblaster!

[ Show youtube player ]

Tone Deaf Walker

[sparhawk]

Monty on the run.

[crazyc]

I would really like Raid over Moscow and Beach Head.

I came recently across a site where someone had started Raid over Moscow but I really did enjoy playing that with my mate on the 64, and would love an amiga version.

[DamienD]

That was earok:

... Raid Over Moscow - Unfinished prototype
... Beach Head 1/2 and Raid Over Moscow Amiga graphics

[ransom1122]

I've always wanted the simple Henry's House converted to Amiga.