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Old 23 February 2003, 19:08   #1
Radgam
 
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Small Rant...

I'm not new to the emu seen but i guess this doesn't fit anywhere. And i guess i should say first that i own an Amiga1200 so i've been using an amiga for long enough but the floppy drive broke last year (and i am planning to buy a new drive) :: Anyway

[ RANT ]
I find it annoying that you just can't get any ADFs on the net which haven't been tampered with and don't have stupid intros like "hacked by XX". It's not like they even have a reason to hack a lot of these games and their modifications often create more problems than good. And i also find the "Trained" games annoying.

I know that some games do need to be modified so they start okay, or to get rid of password checks. But if they just did that and included a txt file saying they did so (and advertising their brilliance if they muct ) i could live with it. But it's all the other junk they do that annoys me.
[ /RANT]

Okay, rank aside, can anyone give me advice on how to convert all the floppies i have? I know how to do most of them but things like Super Skidmarks are always a tad on the awkward side (workbench can't even open them!).

Cheers
 
Old 23 February 2003, 19:35   #2
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If you're looking for original games, go for CAPS releases. Those stupid intros you mentioned are created by crackers and very common on non-original disks. These intros have reasons to exist for those games have copy protections removed!
 
Old 23 February 2003, 19:35   #3
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Old 23 February 2003, 19:48   #4
Mark Wright
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Re: Small Rant...

Quote:
Originally posted by Radgam
It's not like they even have a reason to hack a lot of these games and their modifications often create more problems than good.

.....

can anyone give me advice on how to convert all the floppies i have? I know how to do most of them but things like Super Skidmarks are always a tad on the awkward side (workbench can't even open them!).

Cheers
Well, that's precisely the reason the vast majority of games released for the Amiga were hacked, cracked, broken, deprotected... call it what you will. Technology to duplicate copyprotected disks as distributed for retail by software companies is/was not only extremely expensive (thousands of pounds) but scarce and specialist.

As you have already encountered, software for the Amiga was probably *the* most pirated of any platform. I salute your honesty and integrity for not coming into contact with any of it before now!

The "intros" you refer to (presentations from a group/team before a game) date from the era in which the game was originally released. In the world of piracy, these groups/teams traded not only with each other, but (in many cases) sold their wares, so much fame was to be gained from this sort of advertising. And, as you will soon discover in your effort to transfer disks over to the PC, removing copy protection ("cracking") really can be considered something of a fine art, hence the regular boasting!

Amiga software has, until recently, been preserved as standard AmigaDOS disks (.adf) due to the limitations of both the emulator and transfer techniques (ever tried copying a protected disk?) though there are many developments, most notably the work done by CAPS (you can find their web address elsewhere on this board).

The short answer is if you want to play your original Amiga disks (at least the ones that are protected) you can either:

(1) Wait for CAPS to release a version of it, download and play.

(2) Send your disk to CAPS (if they don't have it) or ask for their transfer tools (you will still have to wait for them to release it!)

(3) Learn how to deprotect and transfer the disks, one by one

My advice is to grab ADF equivalents of the games you own and want to play, and then hold down the left mouse button for around 10 seconds after booting the emulator.
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Old 23 February 2003, 19:59   #5
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Quote:
these groups/teams traded not only with each other, but (in many cases) sold their wares
I don't think _groups_ sold anything. Others do that.
 
Old 23 February 2003, 22:17   #6
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alot of groups did sell consoles copying systems
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Old 23 February 2003, 22:19   #7
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Re: Re: Small Rant...

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wright
Well, that's precisely the reason the vast majority of games released for the Amiga were hacked, cracked, broken, deprotected... call it what you will. Technology to duplicate copyprotected disks as distributed for retail by software companies is/was not only extremely expensive (thousands of pounds) but scarce and specialist.

As you have already encountered, software for the Amiga was probably *the* most pirated of any platform. I salute your honesty and integrity for not coming into contact with any of it before now!

The "intros" you refer to (presentations from a group/team before a game) date from the era in which the game was originally released. In the world of piracy, these groups/teams traded not only with each other, but (in many cases) sold their wares, so much fame was to be gained from this sort of advertising. And, as you will soon discover in your effort to transfer disks over to the PC, removing copy protection ("cracking") really can be considered something of a fine art, hence the regular boasting!

Amiga software has, until recently, been preserved as standard AmigaDOS disks (.adf) due to the limitations of both the emulator and transfer techniques (ever tried copying a protected disk?) though there are many developments, most notably the work done by CAPS (you can find their web address elsewhere on this board).

The short answer is if you want to play your original Amiga disks (at least the ones that are protected) you can either:

(1) Wait for CAPS to release a version of it, download and play.

(2) Send your disk to CAPS (if they don't have it) or ask for their transfer tools (you will still have to wait for them to release it!)

(3) Learn how to deprotect and transfer the disks, one by one

My advice is to grab ADF equivalents of the games you own and want to play, and then hold down the left mouse button for around 10 seconds after booting the emulator.
I'll probably wait for CAPS to release the transfer tools (not that i lack trust in the idea but i love all my old amiga games and hate the UK postal service (i've even had recorded deliverly go missing :/ )). It's nitce to see someone it working towards preserving originals rather than hacks.

And that explains the intos i guess. I thought they were added around the time they were converted to ADFs but of course, i forgot about the huge amiga underground goings on which used to happen :eek

The only illegal amiga thing i have (and no, i'm not actually lying) is a copy of desert strike which i got from a friend but then it didn't have any copy protection in the first place so was easy to copy Weird to think that with some of my early games they actually told you in the instuctions to make a backup copy!

I thought there was some sort of amiga software around at the time though that let you bypass pretty much and copy protect (x-copy or something)?
 
Old 23 February 2003, 22:29   #8
Radgam
 
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Re: Re: Small Rant...

Quote:
Originally posted by Kodoichi
Try to distribute a text-file together on a Non-DOS disk with a game on it that fills the whole disk space.


http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi
I ment include a txt file with the ZIP, but as it was done years ago, my rant has flaws
 
Old 23 February 2003, 22:53   #9
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CAPS transfer tools are available since around September, 2001 to anyone contributing to the project.
For more details read our site and if you are interested send a mail to the contact address shown at the contact section.
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Old 23 February 2003, 22:59   #10
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great! I'll get in touch when i have a new floppy drive for my amiga (may be a few months off yet). Btw, do all floppies stop working after around 8 years or only those which are used often?

Last but not least on the question front, how is CAPS going to deal with games which have copy protection built in where you have to enter a password to continue (ie: Worms 1)
 
Old 23 February 2003, 23:01   #11
oldpx
 
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Quote:
alot of groups did sell consoles copying systems
Really? I want one
But groups don't sell releases anyway.
 
Old 23 February 2003, 23:06   #12
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FDD life time is mostly based on luck
CAPS preserved games include all manuals etc that originally come with a game, hence entering passwords, looking up codes is not a problem normally, unless some item is missing - in that case it will be added later, if somebody submits it. btw: If anybody is willing to sacrficie an Exile box - let us now, that sacrifice would make a lot of people very happy
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Old 23 February 2003, 23:13   #13
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do the manuals have to be scanned page by page? (which i know may sound dumb). The problem with (again using T17 as the example!) worms 1 is that the code book was black pages, with black numbers printed on it and you could only read it in certain lights (and it doesn't scan very nicely).
 
Old 24 February 2003, 00:00   #14
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Yes, please read the scanning guide on this board for details, under the CAPS Project thread. There may be a slightly newer version of the scanning faq, so it is always a good idea to contact us before doing any work and to avoid duplicate efforts.
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Old 24 February 2003, 01:47   #15
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Big grin Re: Small Rant...

Quote:
Originally posted by Radgam
I find it annoying that you just can't get any ADFs on the net which haven't been tampered with and don't have stupid intros like "hacked by XX". It's not like they even have a reason to hack a lot of these games and their modifications often create more problems than good. And i also find the "Trained" games annoying.

I know that some games do need to be modified so they start okay, or to get rid of password checks. But if they just did that and included a txt file saying they did so (and advertising their brilliance if they muct ) i could live with it. But it's all the other junk they do that annoys me.
The answer to your prayers is WHDLoad not CAPS! You can play all your old games, loading is practically instantaneous, no manual or disks required, no intros or in game text tampered with, bugs fixed which exist in the originals (and therefore in the CAPS releases) etc...

http://www.whdload.de

As for intros, I quite like some of the intros, especially the ones which tell you what was fixed in the game! ie. When N.O.M.A.D started AGA fixing games he always wrote exactly what was wrong with them which I think is very good. Also some of the intros have extra features like trainers or PAL/NTSC switchers which is handy.

I also agree that cracking is an art. Some people do very elegant work without tampering with the original data whereas others do complete ugly hacks and use cartridges to freeze memory etc.
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Old 24 February 2003, 02:47   #16
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CAPS and WHDLoad is quite different and should happily live together.
CAPS preserves games "as is" while WHDL is for making old games hdd installable etc.
CAPS releases don't contain any sort of bugs, *unless* the game originally contained them in the first place - but hey, that's what preservation means
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Old 24 February 2003, 04:52   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by IFW
CAPS and WHDLoad is quite different and should happily live together. CAPS preserves games "as is" while WHDL is for making old games hdd installable etc.
Indeed! CAPS images are great for using until a WHDLoad install of the game exists!

Quote:
[B]CAPS releases don't contain any sort of bugs, *unless* the game originally contained them in the first place - but hey, that's what preservation means
Well the number of games I've patched that haven't had any kind of access faults would be around the 10% mark (tops!) so that means about 90% of games have bugs!
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Old 24 February 2003, 05:01   #18
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"CAPS images are great for using until a WHDLoad install of the game exists..."
...or if you want to play "really retro"
But basically the point is to preserve the games in their original form no matter how badly or well written they were done.
As for access faults you are right, but remember on the original target systems the games were developed for (ie. baseline A1000, A500, A1200) those access faults did not do anything wrong, only on more recent miggy setups to which whdl is aimed for do they any "unintentional" behaviour.
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Old 24 February 2003, 14:34   #19
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Re: Re: Small Rant...

Quote:
Originally posted by Kodoichi
http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi

Has anyone tried this? Successfully?
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Old 24 February 2003, 14:56   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Codetapper
Indeed! CAPS images are great for using until a WHDLoad install of the game exists!
And after... I am sure that there are WHD slaves that have bugs, like any computer program, and many that need the original disk again to fix them.

Why not keep the disk in a preservable form so you *can* get the working original games in another 10+ years time? There will no longer be "a race" (against bitrot) to support a game in WHDLoad once a perfect image of the game is available.

Aside from that, CAPS images are also designed for mastering, to fix peoples original disks. So when the mastering software/hardware is complete there will be even more difference between the two projects.

But apples and oranges Mr. Tapper. There is really no need (or point) in comparing the two.


Why is it only to you that I ever need to say this to?

Last edited by fiath; 24 February 2003 at 15:32.
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