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Old 02 February 2003, 04:26   #1
Mojo2000
 
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Exclamation Amiga Doom: huge lag problem

I have just downloaded Amiga Doom and tried to play it. This is the funny thing: the first thirty seconds or so of demo run as smooth as butter, at any resolution. But afterwards, after the "player" fights the cloaked beast enemy, my FPS slows right down to a crawl.

The fact that the demo STARTS OUT as fast and smooth as it does suggests to me that there is some sort of swap file or something accumulating vast amounts of garbage in a stack of some kind.

I would LOVE to be able to play this properly. Can anybody please help?




P.S. It says "shareware" - are ID still supporting the full Amiga version?

Last edited by Mojo2000; 02 February 2003 at 22:47.
 
Old 02 February 2003, 04:34   #2
oldpx
 
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The doom engine on Amiga uses the same data files the PC version does. You can replace the file (I don't rememberr the extension .WAD?) with the PC version of any other doom engine game's and run it instead. A shareware data file is included probably because of copyright limitations.
 
Old 02 February 2003, 09:56   #3
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Re: Amiga Doom: huge lag problem

Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo2000
P.S. It says "shareware" - are ID still supporting the full Amiga version?
The Amiga versions of Doom are just conversions of the code that was made open-source a couple of years ago, so id never supported it on the Amiga.
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Old 02 February 2003, 10:13   #4
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Question OK, but now what?

This is nice to know - thank you for the correction - but how do I diagnose specifically what is going on, so that I can isolate the cause of slowdown and play the game properly?

Is there an equivalent of Windoze Task Manager?
 
Old 02 February 2003, 14:50   #5
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First of all, have you got a gfx card? 040 or 060? what screen res are you playing on? which amiga doom software are you using (doomattack, adoom etc)? how much memory have you got?

all versions will start to lag when there are alot of monsters lurking about, type 'iddqd' iirc to go into god mode and turn around, go back to your start area, if things speed up again then there's not alot you can do apart from install a better cpu or more memory
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Old 02 February 2003, 15:21   #6
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Big grin Lameulator!

My machine is a Heinz '57 home-brew running Win2K SP3, with an AMD XP2200+ CPU @ 1.8 GHz, 256 MB PC2100 RAM, ATI Radeon 7500 video...

Oh, waitaminnit, you want my WinUAE "lameulator" specs? I started out with a 68020+FPU, then moved up the CPU setting to 68040. AGP is on (Edit: D'OH!! I meant AGA! :P); Chip RAM is set to 2 MB; Fast-Z3 RAM (whatever that is) is set to 64 MB; RTG RAM is set to 32 MB. (Edit: Resolution as configured at the WinUAE console is 1024 x 768 32-bit, I think, if not 16-bit.

If you think more info would help, I would be glad to supply it. However, I would prefer not to hear that only PPC Amigas can run ADoom effectively, since AFAIK there is no PPC emulator out yet. (If there were, not only would I be running ADoom but also a pile of games from my mom's old PowerMac 6100!...)

Last edited by Mojo2000; 02 February 2003 at 21:09.
 
Old 02 February 2003, 15:47   #7
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Since Doom is originally a PC game, wouldn't you rather run the DOS version?
 
Old 02 February 2003, 17:04   #8
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Cool

Hey Mojo. Something must be up with your config man. I can run Doom, Doom 2 and Final Doom 100% perfectly (Using ADoom) and my computer isn't even half as good as yours (Athlon 600 + GeForce 3) so I'm not sure what you're doing wrong. Do you have Picasso 96 installed with the latest uaegfx drivers. Try turning off the sound and turning on JIT emulation as well. Also don't use 68040 just use 68020+FPU like you were before. Use 4MB of JIT power. You failed to mention what version of WinUAE you're using.
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Old 02 February 2003, 19:03   #9
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As a matter of fact I can't run Adoom at all in my WinUAE installation

Always reboot right after I choose what res I want to run it in.
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Old 02 February 2003, 21:13   #10
Mojo2000
 
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Big grin Touché!

Quote:
Originally posted by Burseg
Since Doom is originally a PC game, wouldn't you rather run the DOS version?
Touché!

Well, yeah, but if the version you mention is really DOS then I would probably have to boot into real DOS with a diskette or something. Win2K doesn't handle real DOS games too well, whereas Win98SE does an OK job within GUI mode and even better in true DOS.

Yikes, the bad old days before plug-and-play... :hoo
 
Old 02 February 2003, 21:51   #11
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Eek What the...!? It works!

Before I go on with this thread, I just wanted to state for the record that while typing this message, I decided to try one more kick at the ADoom cat. First, at 320 x 200 in 8-bit color. To my surprise, the framerate was suddenly smooth and fast the whole way through!! Then I loaded it again, but at 1024 x 768 in 32-bit BGRA (whatever that means - since the game at that resolution restricts itself to about 1/8th of my screen at the upper-left corner :P Can this be fixed?). Once more, the action is full-speed! I am completely dumbfounded at this discovery.

I should state though, that something IS indeed wrong with my configuration somewhere. About once every four boots, I get a complete lockup at my Workbench, just before my background pic loads up. Also, just as often, WB refuses to go to 1024 x 768 resolution, but at least continues to run. If I thought someone could help by reading my Startup-Sequence file, I would be happy to pass it on... [font size=1]Ahhhh, but on the other hand.... if this is somehow connected to the fact that my Windows 2000 also acts funny every six boots or so, lately, then maybe my hard drive is dying. )

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Hey Mojo. Something must be up with your config man. I can run Doom, Doom 2 and Final Doom 100% perfectly (Using ADoom) and my computer isn't even half as good as yours (Athlon 600 + GeForce 3) so I'm not sure what you're doing wrong.
Thanks for your reply. What OS are you using? Win98 of course has less overhead than Win2K, and WinXP reputedly has more game compatibility than Win2K; either of these factors might come into play. Heh - ba-bing, ba-boom.

Quote:
Do you have Picasso 96 installed with the latest uaegfx drivers. Try turning off the sound and turning on JIT emulation as well. Also don't use 68040 just use 68020+FPU like you were before. Use 4MB of JIT power. You failed to mention what version of WinUAE you're using.
- I am using version 0.8.22.4 of WinUAE.
- I am pretty sure that Picasso 96 comes installed by default in Amiga Forever's WinUAE package.
- How do I know what version of uaegfx I've got?
- What is JIT emulation? What does it do, what is it for etc.
- Why shouldn't I use 68040 emulation? Does it not use 68000 or 68020 code faithfully?

Thanks for your help, Steve, and to everyone else for trying to help. As I mentioned at the very beginning, there are still issues I hope to solve. Hopefully, nothing to do with my friend here...

Last edited by Mojo2000; 02 February 2003 at 22:03.
 
Old 02 February 2003, 22:23   #12
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Re: What the...!? It works!

Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo2000
Thanks for your reply. What OS are you using? Win98 of course has less overhead than Win2K, and WinXP reputedly has more game compatibility than Win2K; either of these factors might come into play.
I'm using Windows xp Professional and Amiga OS3.9 in WinUAE.


Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo2000
- I am using version 0.8.22.4 of WinUAE.
- I am pretty sure that Picasso 96 comes installed by default in Amiga Forever's WinUAE package.
- How do I know what version of uaegfx I've got?
- What is JIT emulation? What does it do, what is it for etc.
- Why shouldn't I use 68040 emulation? Does it not use 68000 or 68020 code faithfully?
I think P96 is default in Amiga Forever.
Copy the latest "uaegfx" file from WinUAE into your Picasso 96 directory in Workbench.
JIT speeds stuff up. Just set CPU to 68020 and move the JIT slider to 4MB of RAM to enable JIT.
There isn't a great deal of stuff that needs the 68040 CPU checked. Just use 68020+FPU for Workbench. You won't get any extra speed out of WinUAE just cos you've selected 68040. Doom works perfect with 68020+FPU.
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Old 02 February 2003, 22:55   #13
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Exclamation Clarification re ADoom

1. 320 x 200 @ 8-bit works, but 16- and 32-bit modes at same resolation are as slow as initially reported.
2. 1024 x 768 @ 32-bit is full speed. (?!)
3. Most resolutions in between @ 16- and 32-bit color are slow.
4. Haven't tried modes over 1024 x 768.

This means I have to dig further. Sigh.

BTW, Steve, I just checked WinUAE settings and JIT is cranked up to full 8 MB; Const Jump/No Flags/FPU Support are checked on. Hard Flush/Force Settings are unchecked.

I can play fine in 8-bit color; besides, I don't think there were was any specific work done to exploit richer modes...? It doesn't LOOK like it, anyway.
 
Old 02 February 2003, 23:10   #14
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There is an OpenGL enhanced version of the doom available that runs under Windows. Make a search on google for "GL Doom" for more information.
 
Old 02 February 2003, 23:16   #15
Mojo2000
 
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Cool Are you trying to tell me something?

Quote:
Originally posted by Burseg
There is an OpenGL enhanced version of the doom available that runs under Windows. Make a search on google for "GL Doom" for more information.
Are you trying to say that you are tired of hearing about my ADoom + WinUAE troubles, and that I am no doubt just a juarez/gamez kiddie who should be contented to run a straight DOS or Windows port? What's the point in that? I already run Max Payne nicely, and Half-Life Counterstrike should be pretty smooth on my current box (you should have seen my old specs).

I am simply trying to touch base with as many Amiga programs as I can, not only to enjoy a nostalgia trip but also to enjoy the improvements in both WinUAE and my computer. Besides, that makes for a significant 'neat' factor. I look forward to running Basilisk under WinUAE, so in essence I will be emulating two levels deep! (Mac 68000 series under Amiga 68000 series under AMD XP)

Anyway, if you are just trying to he helpful, then I appreciate your inputs.
 
Old 03 February 2003, 00:17   #16
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Re: Clarification re ADoom

Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo2000
1. 320 x 200 @ 8-bit works, but 16- and 32-bit modes at same resolation are as slow as initially reported.
2. 1024 x 768 @ 32-bit is full speed. (?!)
3. Most resolutions in between @ 16- and 32-bit color are slow.
320 x 200 x 8 would work properly, it was written for 320 x 240 x 8. If you get DoomAttack (from aminet) you can run it in 640x480x8 without too much slow down.

it's only an 8 bit game, trying to run it on deeper screens is pointless, it takes too much time to scale up the gfx, hence the slow down and you won't get any better gfx...

Remember early 90's pc's were not capable of much more than 320x240x8...

Use 320 x 240 x 8 for best results.

Last edited by Severin; 03 February 2003 at 00:22.
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Old 03 February 2003, 00:24   #17
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Quote:
Are you trying to say that you are tired of hearing about my ADoom + WinUAE troubles, and that I am no doubt just a juarez/gamez kiddie who should be contented to run a straight DOS or Windows port?
No. Not at all. I was just trying to solve your win2k/dos problem.
 
Old 03 February 2003, 02:17   #18
Mojo2000
 
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Re: Re: Clarification re ADoom

Quote:
Originally posted by Severin
320 x 200 x 8 would work properly, it was written for 320 x 240 x 8. If you get DoomAttack (from aminet) you can run it in 640x480x8 without too much slow down.

it's only an 8 bit game, trying to run it on deeper screens is pointless, it takes too much time to scale up the gfx, hence the slow down and you won't get any better gfx...

Remember early 90's pc's were not capable of much more than 320x240x8...

Use 320 x 240 x 8 for best results.
Thanks for the insights. But this leads to further questions.

1) What's the difference between ADoom being written for 320x240x8 and scaling miserably at 320x240x32, but more modern (PC) games running smoothly at varying resolutions and color depths? Is there something about later games being written specifically to take advantage of better hardware?

2) Why does ADoom run at 1024 x 768 (i.e. there are 1024 x 768 pixels on my screen, but ADoom only uses 320 x 340 of them and thus occupies only a fraction of the screen), but almost any PC game will run at 1024 x 768 (taking up most of screen and filling in with extra pixels)?

Please note that this is NOT a troll trip. I honestly want to know what I am dealing with, so I know to either put up or find countermeasures. Thx
 
Old 03 February 2003, 02:44   #19
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1) yes, the engine (specially amiga ones) are ONLY written for 8 bit, remember it's ancient, you had to be really rich to afford a gfx card with 800x600x16 then...

2) because doom only displays at 320 or 640 resolutions (640 is set as a command line option in dos) it doesn't detect what screen mode your running it on, all mode promotion is done through uae, as far as doom is concerned your using a 320x(200/240)x8 screen...

basically the pc version will seem very limited now, the amiga version more so. when it was written there was no such thing as 3D hardware, most pc's were 486's with 4 or 8 mb. The engine just didn't have to do anything better as there was no hardware to support it...
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