Old "sick" but allowable content, Distasteful reading.

[Pat the Cat]

This was news to me, but will probably not news here as it all this alledgedly happened 23 years ago inside Commodore. I'm not sure if this is real or not, but it might be. I've asked for somebody else to look at it. I can't tell really, it's stuff off the internet which doesn't mean much.

Who would have thought it? CBM, involved in BUGGERY? Isn't that illegal in Pennsylvania?

Now, before anyone gets TOO upset, it's a document labelled as BUGGERY with a CBM stamp on it. That doesn't mean it's genuine.

It looks pretty genuine to me though.

"BUGGERY" "SHORT PCB TRIX" "if short="yes" "MORE JOY" "HOLES &c."

Page 11 huh.

http://www.amigawiki.de/dnl/schematics/A1200_R2.pdf

This port, nor Port9b on the Rev 1, show up on the Connector list of either schematic.

I guess this si where Gayle 2 fits in. Anyway, buggery showed up as an searchable word on this forum, so I figured it was OK to post on the subject in relation to the Amiga, or at least rev 2 A1200s, having this on their schematics. That's not the same as having it on the machine itself. It came from a CAD generated environment anyway, so nobody really "signed off" on anything, as such.

What the heck where they really trying to do? In either case? I mean, REALLY? G (Greg?) Robbins did both drawings originally, but rev B came from BAF. Who was BAF?


Instead, maybe using all the pins couldn't give you much more than a regular clock port today. Say CBM did have other ideas for it. One possibie thing they looked at was . Digital audio, 91KHz or whatever sounds great idea. But it needs a lot of protection and fine electrical circuitry, good shielding, to do well. Maybe that was an issue with doing Audio IN, Audio Out like that. It sounds great in theory but the circuits just "hummed" too much and it would have cost too much to do much else with the port anyway..

However, the implication that "BUGGERY" was somehow involved, suggests to me that the clockport was shafted, by somebody, for whatever reason. I think that's a reasonable estimation. Whether it was re-engineer costs, or just plain "take it off the market, they're not ready for that kind of magic" is moot. It didn't happen. Clockports as we know them happened. What's the real story here?

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Anyway, the idea that Gayle took it from behind and even liked it... it's kind of sick art, but there you go. Most places I'm not really allowed to talk abou that. It's certainly Rock N Roll and Channel Z, so I can't really complain about it. It all happened way too long ago to worry about that.

The Rev1 schematic shows two 40 pin clock headers. P9A and P9B. The connector list doesn't have either really, I think the diagrams shown are the two ways they worked out to use the connection. There might be other ways to use these pins, that are faster than the current standard of clock port, but it's all a bit dodgy going there, because the 16 data lines e other connections are very different to the clock standard in current use. Any tinkering here is almost definitely going to prevent a "regular" clock port expansion from going there, and there is no gurantee you will get a better result anyway using homebrew kit maybe. It's very easy to get a stone dead A1200 messing here if you don't know what you are doing, and are very careful about both experimentation and reasonable expectation.

http://www.amigawiki.de/dnl/schematics/A1200_R1.pdf

[Locutus]

Have you taken your meds?

[Pat the Cat]

Excuse me, this thread is not for spam insults. Please comment on the subect matter or not at all.

The fact is, it's computer data, not the original documents. No human hand.

No trace in the real world. It doesn't really matter if they are fake or genuine. It makes no difference in the real world.

I wonder who BAF is? Or is a frame up of BAF? Don't go complaining, I got the iinks off a post on this site, so you should really be talking to that poster about sanity, now shouldn't you. Their content. I guess they didn't check, did they, and the words used are not a regarded as a problem on this site. I carefully googled, found plenty.

Didn't expect to see it on a document marked "Copyright Amiga" and a date, but there you go.

As to whether it's an offence or not in Pennsylvania at the time, it depends if the buggery was consensual or not. The document doesn't really make that clear. The word "buggery" is not considered a problem here. I checked. People use it, have used it. Just so long as it's consensual, not a problem.

So, that's the question really, when it comes to what possibly could be a genuine CBM document, copyrighted, relating to buggery on the Amiga system. I don't think that's viable myself, but I'm just not even going to try. It could result in permanent damage, you know.

[Amiga1992]

Stop trolling this board, the spam is what you post.

[Pat the Cat]

People can view and judge the "evidence" for themselves. It's inconclusive. It could be genuine, that's as much as I have said, and I do hope somebody has the originals kept very safely.

Or not. Copyright is a funny thing. Sometimes, you want it. Sometimes, you just want to drop it like a hot potato.

Normally, I would have gotten a full set of schematics for an Amiga that was on sale. Or going on sale somewhere.

Never got one for either A1200, and I asked, and they just weren't available. Tough. ESPECIALLY the clock port. You'd think it had a stealth fighter rammed in there somewhere, they were that precious about it at the time. CBM. I had that bitch apart in minutes. By then, taking illuminated pictures of bare circuitboards was in fashion. CBM didn't really offer much info about anything. The Expansion had many options, one of them was a clock. They had lots of options. They didn't want to talk capabilities or bandwith. We even had to find out about PCMCIA from other people, HDs, the works. I think they just kept everything tight, to journalists everywhere. Maybe a lot of Devs too, not all of them wanted schematics or could check them for this.

Anybody else take a look, sometime? These are not ordinary schematics, they are CAD diagrams. That's what CBM used at the time. You can see some of the hardware for CAD and prototyping on Deathbed Vigil. The older stuff, as I recall Dave Hazy saying. They were very compartmentalized, CBM, big hardware companies of the time had to be. I don't think he did machines like the A1200. He did the top end Amigas. His thing. Not this thing.

[DamienD]

Ok, haven't read through the complete thread...

Pat; you've only been on EAB for 20 days or so now and do seem to be winding people up...

Please, try to think about what you post and if it will possibly offend other members.

[Leffmann]

DamienD, you say that you read through the complete thread, and that Pat needs to think about what he posts. Are you annoyed by what he posts, by how he posts it, or are you just getting swayed by the two trolls bringing their insults into the thread?

If people are mentally constipated to the point where they can't follow someone's reasoning and arguments, then that's not a reason to start insulting and trying to
bully them out of the forum.

The problem is not that Pat is supposedly winding people up, but that certain people are intolerant of others, perhaps because of how they reason, express themselves, their style of writing, or even who they are.

Your response is pretty disappointing coming from a moderator. I think what you should have done is make it clear that it's not OK to attack other users on the forum. If you read the first four posts then it should be pretty clear who is trying to wind up who.

[DamienD]

Oh wow, thanks for your input Leffmann...

No, I said that:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Ok, haven't read through the complete thread...

You should know me by now, I'm all against people attacking others because their views differ.

In fact, I've said so in a lot of Pat the Cat's threads (and not to mention other numerous threads / posts by others).

What I'm trying to do is keep EAB a friendly / fun place to hang out...

This topic was always going to provoke people's opinions; just read the title. I'm just trying to stop it from getting into a flaming war...

Anyway, if you have an issue with my comments / moderation then please feel free to PM RCK

[Pat the Cat]

No, if a mod gets a complaint, they have to get in there. I disagree. If people are complaining to mods, the mod has to get in there, warn, check. I think it's borderline but allowable. It's certainly distateful, and I did post a notice about that. I'm done, check. Decide DamienD. Fair dinkum?

[nobody]

I will not read this thread i am drinking my grog right now and feeling all right. Life can be good

[jarp]

Originally Posted by Leffmann

If people are mentally constipated to the point where they can't follow someone's reasoning and arguments, then that's not a reason to start insulting and trying to bully them out of the forum.

Please stop insulting people like that, ok? Somebody may get offended of such hate speech.

but that certain people are intolerant of others, perhaps because of how they reason, express themselves, their style of writing, or even who they are.

Oh yeah, Sweden. Sorry, carry on.

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by Pat the Cat

Excuse me, this thread is not for spam insults. Please comment on the subect matter or not at all.

The fact is, it's computer data, not the original documents. No human hand.

No trace in the real world. It doesn't really matter if they are fake or genuine. It makes no difference in the real world.

I wonder who BAF is? Or is a frame up of BAF? Don't go complaining, I got the iinks off a post on this site, so you should really be talking to that poster about sanity, now shouldn't you. Their content. I guess they didn't check, did they, and the words used are not a regarded as a problem on this site. I carefully googled, found plenty.

Didn't expect to see it on a document marked "Copyright Amiga" and a date, but there you go.

As to whether it's an offence or not in Pennsylvania at the time, it depends if the buggery was consensual or not. The document doesn't really make that clear. The word "buggery" is not considered a problem here. I checked. People use it, have used it. Just so long as it's consensual, not a problem.

So, that's the question really, when it comes to what possibly could be a genuine CBM document, copyrighted, relating to buggery on the Amiga system. I don't think that's viable myself, but I'm just not even going to try. It could result in permanent damage, you know.

I found this quote from Dave Haynie, makes sense, the words on the schematics are probably related to The B-52's.

The Amiga 1200 was designed by George Robbins and Brian Fenimore, who code-named the motherboard "Channel-Z" ("gettin's nothing but static") -- GRR was a huge B-52's fan. This was Commodore West Chester's first committed system using the AA chipset (originally called Pandora, later called AGA by the marketing people), I had been messing with AA systems since 1990, but Commodore's new management had put the keibash on most of what we had in development in 1991. Politics. And, quite certainly, heaps of stupidity. But regardless, everyone was happy when the A1200 got out the door. Unfortunately, the new bosses didn't believe in AA, so they didn't order any parts. As a result, they had lines forming wordwide to get A1200s, they could have sold several times as many at Christmas, and they had plenty of A600s that no one wanted. And anyone in Engineering could have told you that would happen, back in 1991.

[dlfrsilver]

BAF = Brian Fennimore ?

[Pat the Cat]

Well, yes, but that doesn't mean the schematics I posted are 100% legit. They are very very old documents and have been around for a long time.

It doesn't really matter until a paper copy is signed off somewhere by a human being with a date.

Back then, people were talking Hypertext and CDROMS, and law courts still operated on paper.

It might have been "discorporated" into paperless scan form, but still has to have a signature from a human being to have any kind of claim to credibility.

This material could just be a practical joke / hack / hoax. Sure the main designer liked the B-52s. That's a known fact, I don't know the story of those times., A1200 inside CBM. Other people do.

For all I know, it could be legit, and ended up with the CBM Schematic artwork as some kind of gay rights protest art example. You can get away with a lof if you call it "art".

[ptyerman]

Anyone got any Prozac?

[modrobert]

Found more info here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200208120.../b52board.html

...and here:

http://www.kappamaki.com/grr.html

[demolition]

I did read through it all and it is distasteful reading for sure, but only because OP is extrapolating to extremes on basically nothing.. Yes, there must have been prototypes where they tried out different things and there are still funny comments left in the final schematics, so one should not take their comments too seriously. Normally you would also add more connectors during development than you expect to use in the end because it is easier to remove them than to add them after you did the PCB layout and routing.

[Pat the Cat]

Originally Posted by demolition

I did read through it all and it is distasteful reading for sure, but only because OP is extrapolating to extremes on basically nothing..

Oh come off it. This is not a coincidence, having these words;-
"BUGGERY" "SHORT PCB TRIX" "if short="yes" "MORE JOY" "HOLES &c." stamped on the schematic of a circuit, a vital document if you want to fix and understand electronics. What's writen on it isnt so important that it is accurate for showing where components join up and what value of components are used. For that, the included words are indeed irrelevant.

Or maybe you are saying tha Amiga Buggery, this copyrighted CBM concept, was clearly never going to catch on anyway. It is kind of hard to be sure anyway which way this release is oriented. Is it a genuine joke that CBM missed? Is it clearly a fake designed to hurt an innocent person? Could be either, or something else again.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Pat the Cat

Or maybe you are saying tha Amiga Buggery, this copyrighted CBM concept, was clearly never going to catch on anyway. It is kind of hard to be sure anyway which way this release is oriented. Is it a genuine joke that CBM missed? Is it clearly a fake designed to hurt an innocent person? Could be either, or something else again.

You are an odd person..

[Locutus]

I think i know what is giving me this 'mental constipation'......