Increasing Fast RAM and speed.

fc.studio · 11 July 2007, 22:55

I know that accelerator board without FAST RAM are nearly useless, but does anyone know if increasing the FAST RAM means that the AMIGA run faster?
I've a Blizzard 1230/IV with a 16MB SIMM. If I put a 32MB or a 64MB SIMM, does my A1200 will run faster?
At the moment SYSInfo reports 9625 Drystones and 10.04 Mips.
Thanks.

Zetr0 · 11 July 2007, 23:05

@fc.studio

The speed increases only happen upto a point. basically the more ram you have the more programs you can run at any one time with out the system *paging* memory blocks to the hard disk and back. (MMU required for paging)

but there exists a point where adding any more ram wont improve anything. for an average amiga that enjoys WHD and a little apps then 16MB is probly more that enought, but by the time you get to 32MB only the most intensive lightwave / imagine scenes would work really use this much.

of course there are some apps that really do benefit from more memory (imagine / lightwave) but also video tracker / medss. so the greater your computers memory requirements the more memory the better, but there is a limmit.

you can improve the speed of the memory and this will subtle improve your score *going from 70ns to 60ns* will make a subtle difference, but you would get more benefit by putting your system into NTSC instead of PAL as this would improve chip-speed access.

also if you increase you processor frequency this also as you most likely know will improve your performance ratings too, but again, there is a limmit

fc.studio · 11 July 2007, 23:10

Very clear. Thanks

thomas · 11 July 2007, 23:13

Quote:

basically the more ram you have the more programs you can run at any one time with out the system *paging* memory blocks to the hard disk and back. (MMU required for paging)

You are talking about Windows, aren't you ? AmigaOS never had virtual memory and never did paging. In the same manner, AmigaOS never needed nor utilised an MMU, even if it is present.

Regarding speed, it only matters if fast ram is present or not. It does not matter how much fast ram there is. More fast ram does not make it faster.

Graham Humphrey · 11 July 2007, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by fc.studio

I know that accelerator board without FAST RAM are nearly useless

Don't accelerators (for the A1200 at any rate) with no Fast RAM actually run slower than a "regular" 020-powered A1200?

Zetr0 · 12 July 2007, 01:46

@thomas
interesting, I honestly thought the Amiga had the ability to page. thanks you for the correction my friend. I am curious though does the amiga have a paging system when running under X11 or linux ?

BippyM · 12 July 2007, 04:59

I thought there were MMU progs that allowed "virtual-ram" on the amiga.. Surely this is the same as paging!

Secret Vampire · 12 July 2007, 21:51

I thought general wisdom was that any MMU hack virtual memory systems were just that, a hack, and offered minimal gains, if any.
Really, if you want virtual memory that works it needs to be integrated into the OS kernel. To do it outside means relying on a kernel which doesn't have any kind of virtual memory capability, and just fooling it into thinking it has more memory available than it does, and using the MMU to move stuff around, or make an area of disk an extension of real memory.
So, since Linux has virtual memory built in, you would have paging when running Linux on an Amiga, same goes for BSD. X11 is a no, since that's just a windowing system, any virtual memory would depend on the underlying OS.

This is at least the case for conventional OSes, how something unusual like plan 9, where everything is, in theory at least, a device may be different. You presumably have memory devices which are not part of the kernel, so adding VM would be a function of the memory device.

musashi5150 · 13 July 2007, 09:48

I remember seeing a tool called "Gigamem" being advertised back in the day and I'm sure there were other virtual memory progs around too. I've never tried them, but I bet they run like crap

Zetr0 · 13 July 2007, 11:59

I would imagine though that if you had a good U2W Fast SCSI 2 device it would be quite seeless really

11 July 2007, 22:55	#1
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Increasing Fast RAM and speed. I know that accelerator board without FAST RAM are nearly useless, but does anyone know if increasing the FAST RAM means that the AMIGA run faster? I've a Blizzard 1230/IV with a 16MB SIMM. If I put a 32MB or a 64MB SIMM, does my A1200 will run faster? At the moment SYSInfo reports 9625 Drystones and 10.04 Mips. Thanks.

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11 July 2007, 23:05	#2
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@fc.studio The speed increases only happen upto a point. basically the more ram you have the more programs you can run at any one time with out the system paging memory blocks to the hard disk and back. (MMU required for paging) but there exists a point where adding any more ram wont improve anything. for an average amiga that enjoys WHD and a little apps then 16MB is probly more that enought, but by the time you get to 32MB only the most intensive lightwave / imagine scenes would work really use this much. of course there are some apps that really do benefit from more memory (imagine / lightwave) but also video tracker / medss. so the greater your computers memory requirements the more memory the better, but there is a limmit. you can improve the speed of the memory and this will subtle improve your score going from 70ns to 60ns will make a subtle difference, but you would get more benefit by putting your system into NTSC instead of PAL as this would improve chip-speed access. also if you increase you processor frequency this also as you most likely know will improve your performance ratings too, but again, there is a limmit

11 July 2007, 23:10	#3
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Very clear. Thanks

12 July 2007, 01:46	#6
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@thomas interesting, I honestly thought the Amiga had the ability to page. thanks you for the correction my friend. I am curious though does the amiga have a paging system when running under X11 or linux ?

12 July 2007, 04:59	#7
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	I thought there were MMU progs that allowed "virtual-ram" on the amiga.. Surely this is the same as paging!

12 July 2007, 21:51	#8
Secret Vampire Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Birmingham UK Age: 43 Posts: 214	I thought general wisdom was that any MMU hack virtual memory systems were just that, a hack, and offered minimal gains, if any. Really, if you want virtual memory that works it needs to be integrated into the OS kernel. To do it outside means relying on a kernel which doesn't have any kind of virtual memory capability, and just fooling it into thinking it has more memory available than it does, and using the MMU to move stuff around, or make an area of disk an extension of real memory. So, since Linux has virtual memory built in, you would have paging when running Linux on an Amiga, same goes for BSD. X11 is a no, since that's just a windowing system, any virtual memory would depend on the underlying OS. This is at least the case for conventional OSes, how something unusual like plan 9, where everything is, in theory at least, a device may be different. You presumably have memory devices which are not part of the kernel, so adding VM would be a function of the memory device.

13 July 2007, 09:48	#9
musashi5150 move.w #$4489,$dff07e Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norfolk, UK Age: 42 Posts: 2,351	I remember seeing a tool called "Gigamem" being advertised back in the day and I'm sure there were other virtual memory progs around too. I've never tried them, but I bet they run like crap

13 July 2007, 11:59	#10
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	I would imagine though that if you had a good U2W Fast SCSI 2 device it would be quite seeless really

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