English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Amiga Forever

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 16 December 2014, 10:35   #1
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
Amiga Explorer max. serial Speed on A2000 with 68030

Just connected my A2000/68030 (Workbench 2.0) through a nullmodemcable with a PC and established successfully a connection with the Amiga Explorer. For starting i used the defaultsetting of 19200bps and was able to transfer a few *.adf to the PC. Now would like to increase the serial speed a bit. Googled around and saw, that with an 68030 it should be possible to run a 115200bps connection. If I go to PREFS - SERIAL, max speed I can set there is only 31250. Are higher speeds only possible with Workbench 3?
 
Old 16 December 2014, 15:24   #2
zipper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: finland
Posts: 1,456
There are several replacement serial devices in Aminet - but can't say which one is preferable. 115200 is possible - but probably with a RTG equipped system that leaves resources free (my A500T with RTG runs it fine).
zipper is offline  
Old 16 December 2014, 15:33   #3
ancalimon
Supernormal

ancalimon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Age: 37
Posts: 1,229
I think the standard serial port is limited to those speeds. Isn't it?
ancalimon is offline  
Old 16 December 2014, 16:50   #4
jbenam
Italian Amiga Zealot

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Italy
Age: 30
Posts: 1,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipper View Post
There are several replacement serial devices in Aminet - but can't say which one is preferable. 115200 is possible - but probably with a RTG equipped system that leaves resources free (my A500T with RTG runs it fine).
I've used both baudbandit and 8n1 - I seem to remember that 8n1 gave me a slight boost but that baudbandit was the most stable.
jbenam is offline  
Old 16 December 2014, 18:55   #5
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
I tryed this one: http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/SerialPrefs292
After installation (Installer didnt work on WB2.x, so I had to install it manually) in Prefs I had another (same) "Serial"-Icon with which it was possible to change settings to 115200 (once you set that one to 115200, and go to the standard "Serial"-Icon, it shows the minimum setting). So not sure if "SerialPrefs292" just "overrides" the standard settings and which one is valid finally?

Also once you have that tool installed, you still need to configure AExplorer with Parameters to run with higher speed than 19200. When you start AExplorer without parameters, it displays quick information that speed is (by default) 19200bps.

The params on Amigaside are something like "AExplorer Connection Serial Serbaud 115200". To be able to use it, you need to configure it first with the param SERDEVICE, but above package doesnt contain a *.device file...

@zipper & jbenam:
Did you ever configured yourself AExplorer on Amiga side with params to run higher than 19200?
 
Old 16 December 2014, 19:20   #6
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
Just had a look at the baudbandit package (http://aminet.net/package/comm/misc/baudbandit1.4b) which includes such a file (BaudBandit.device). Will give it a try.
 
Old 17 December 2014, 12:24   #7
jbenam
Italian Amiga Zealot

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Italy
Age: 30
Posts: 1,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen View Post
I tryed this one: http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/SerialPrefs292
After installation (Installer didnt work on WB2.x, so I had to install it manually) in Prefs I had another (same) "Serial"-Icon with which it was possible to change settings to 115200 (once you set that one to 115200, and go to the standard "Serial"-Icon, it shows the minimum setting). So not sure if "SerialPrefs292" just "overrides" the standard settings and which one is valid finally?

Also once you have that tool installed, you still need to configure AExplorer with Parameters to run with higher speed than 19200. When you start AExplorer without parameters, it displays quick information that speed is (by default) 19200bps.

The params on Amigaside are something like "AExplorer Connection Serial Serbaud 115200". To be able to use it, you need to configure it first with the param SERDEVICE, but above package doesnt contain a *.device file...

@zipper & jbenam:
Did you ever configured yourself AExplorer on Amiga side with params to run higher than 19200?
I just remembered - the serial speed you configure in Prefs isn't used by AExplorer! Amiga Explorer comes with its own tooltype which decides the serial speed. It's entirely independent of the Serial prefs and can do whatever speeds you want it to (and you Amiga/serial.device can support!), just remember to set it to the same speed on the PC (same thing, you need to configure the speed in AExplorer, not in windows).

Anyway, yes, I seem to remember that I run AExplorer via serial on my A4000 at home at 115200 baud. Got to be said that I use the motherboard's internal serial (no China-made USB adapters! ) and that my A4000 has got a 040 in it along with loads of fast RAM.

I suppose you can try, your A2000 should be able to do that with a bit of fast RAM as well...

Just copy over the baudbandit.device to DEVS: and edit the AExplorer tooltype to use it, otherwise it'll default back to the OS's standard serial.device .
jbenam is offline  
Old 18 December 2014, 10:00   #8
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
Ah, thanks for the hint with the Tooltype! Ok, it goes like this: With serial.device and 19200bps it takes ~10Min for 1 Disk. With 38400 around 5Min per Disk. I can also set it to 57600 and takes about 3Min per Disk. 115200 didn't work with serial.device. So I tryed with baudbandit and 8n1 (both *.device copied to the DEVS directory and then changed the tooltype appropriately). Both also work with max 57600, but not anymore with 115200. So I guess max. serial speed on A2000 with 68030 is 57600bps...
 
Old 18 December 2014, 11:53   #9
zipper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: finland
Posts: 1,456
Have you tried to drop the screenmode to 2 colours? It might help. Or use http://aminet.net/util/misc/add36k.lzh
zipper is offline  
Old 18 December 2014, 12:28   #10
PeterK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hangover
Posts: 2,229
Amiga Explorer connected over a serial port has a very poor optimization.

The best transfer rates (115200) can be reached with Twin Express, but the drawback is the limitation to the old MSDOS filesystem name and space restrictions.

http://aminet.net/search?query=twin+express
PeterK is offline  
Old 19 December 2014, 11:12   #11
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
@PeterK: Thanks, might give it a try someday too

@zipper: I'll try out if there is any difference with 2 colors
(and will also try with serial, 8n1 and baudbandit device)
 
Old 19 December 2014, 22:39   #12
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
No difference with 2 Colors.
When trying with 115200bps:

1.)
Serial.device:
When starting "Amiga Explorer": Error reading from COM port

2.)
8n1.device:
Can start Amiga Computer
After short time when trying to copy an ADF:
"Error copying file" - "Error reading from COM port"

3.)
BaudBandit.device
When starting "Amiga Computer": Error reading from COM port

4.)
New 8n1.device (68030 Version):
Can start Amiga Computer
Error copying file

5.)
New 8n1.device (68000 Version):
Can start Amiga Computer
Error copying file

6.)
artser.device
When starting "Amiga Computer": "The handshaking failed"
 
Old 19 December 2014, 23:00   #13
source
Zone Friend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 675
If I remember correctly if you are using the stock serial port on the A 2000 you will not get reliable transfers much past 33 kbaud. To get 115200 you would need a serial card/multiport card installed.
source is offline  
Old 20 December 2014, 14:20   #14
jbenam
Italian Amiga Zealot

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Italy
Age: 30
Posts: 1,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
Amiga Explorer connected over a serial port has a very poor optimization.

The best transfer rates (115200) can be reached with Twin Express, but the drawback is the limitation to the old MSDOS filesystem name and space restrictions.

http://aminet.net/search?query=twin+express
I tried using it with DOSBox - definitely not worth the hassle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by source View Post
If I remember correctly if you are using the stock serial port on the A 2000 you will not get reliable transfers much past 33 kbaud. To get 115200 you would need a serial card/multiport card installed.
True, the Amiga ports aren't buffered so you can't reach really high speeds with them. Will check again my A4000 during Xmas and I'll see if I'm really using 115200 or not
jbenam is offline  
Old 20 December 2014, 18:32   #15
PeterK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hangover
Posts: 2,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbenam View Post
I tried using it with DOSBox - definitely not worth the hassle.
More than 20 years ago, when I was still using my A2000 + A2620 (68020@14Mhz) connected to a 386 PC, TwinExpress was definitly the fastest and the only serial transfer tool that was able to work reliable with 115200 bps over a standard serial port. If I remember it correctly, it has an optional data compression to achieve the best transfer rates. Of course, you have to read the docs, but there is no hassle to learn how it works.

Btw, it seems that you are using a serial cable with the wrong connections. You need a dummy hardware handshake nullmodem cable (RTS and CTS connected) in order to use 8N1 or baudbandit.device. Sorry, but I don't remember the pin to pin connection layout anymore. And my current PC has no serial port at all.

Last edited by PeterK; 20 December 2014 at 19:14.
PeterK is offline  
Old 20 December 2014, 19:42   #16
mark_k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,959
Some tips for getting the best possible serial throughput:
  • Make sure your system's VBR points to 32-bit fast RAM
  • Make sure the system stack pointer (SSP) points to 32-bit fast RAM
  • Make sure Kickstart is in 32-bit fast RAM
  • Make sure the CPU data cache is enabled (it should already be)
You could also try to find a cheap used Zorro II serial card. At least a few years ago they were relatively easy to find, due partly perhaps to people no longer needed them once they had broadband internet access.

By the way, what make of CPU card do you have? At least GVP ones had a patch to improve serial operation in conjunction with the on-board SCSI controller.
mark_k is offline  
Old 25 December 2014, 14:45   #17
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
Mark, thanks for your reply - but I'm sure as a normal user I can't follow you...

> Make sure your system's VBR points to 32-bit fast RAM

With something like this?
http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/vbrmov23

> Make sure the system stack pointer (SSP) points to 32-bit fast RAM

Can you be more specific how to do that?
Not sure where to begin here:
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q?amiga+move+...+stack+pointer

> Make sure Kickstart is in 32-bit fast RAM

Would this here be the right place to start looking how to do that?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75223

> Make sure the CPU data cache is enabled (it should already be)

Again not sure where to begin:
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=amiga+enable+cpu+data+cache
(maybe a more specific hint could help...)

> You could also try to find a cheap used Zorro II serial card. At least a few years ago
> they were relatively easy to find, due partly perhaps to people no longer needed them
> once they had broadband internet access.

Thanks for the suggestion - just a bit overkill to just backup my disks
(didn't think I'm going to dig so deep into this...)

> By the way, what make of CPU card do you have?

A2630
 
Old 25 December 2014, 20:55   #18
mark_k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen View Post
Mark, thanks for your reply - but I'm sure as a normal user I can't follow you...
Heh. On the Amiga, for every byte sent/received to/from the serial port, the CPU gets an interrupt. With faster baud rates the Amiga gets thousands of interrupts per second. The suggestions I gave have the object of minimising interrupt response time, which could hopefully allow for more reliable data transfer at higher baud rates. Or at least, reduce the performance impact of the serial transfer on other programs you might be running.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen View Post
> Make sure your system's VBR points to 32-bit fast RAM

With something like this?
http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/vbrmov23
Yes that should work. I use CPU-Control myself, which can also move the SSP; see below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen View Post
> Make sure the system stack pointer (SSP) points to 32-bit fast RAM

Can you be more specific how to do that?
Not sure where to begin here:
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q?amiga+move+...+stack+pointer
If you have some fast RAM on your A2630 and are running Kickstart 2.0 or later, the SSP probably already points to 32-bit fast RAM, so you won't need to do anything. To check, use CPU-Control:
CPU-Control SYSTEMINFO NOWIN
You want the SSP value to be larger than $00200000.

You could put a command like this in your startup-sequence:
CPU-Control VBR MOVESSP NOWIN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen View Post
> Make sure Kickstart is in 32-bit fast RAM

Would this here be the right place to start looking how to do that?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75223
Not really. As you have a 68030 you can use the CPU program which comes on the Workbench disk; put
CPU FASTROM
into your startup-sequence to remap Kickstart to 32-bit fast RAM. (IMHO a better approach for your system would be to use ReKick to load a special Kickstart from disk, but I won't bother writing about that here. )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen View Post
> Make sure the CPU data cache is enabled (it should already be)

Again not sure where to begin:
The data cache should already be enabled by SetPatch which is run from the startup-sequence. To check, type SetPatch in a CLI window and it should say Enabled data cache.
mark_k is offline  
Old 01 January 2015, 10:42   #19
jb2815
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 11
Slightly off topic, but I remember using a parallel cable years ago to do that sort of stuff. It was a lot faster from memory.
jb2815 is offline  
Old 07 January 2015, 22:16   #20
Alen
 
Posts: n/a
@Mark:
Thank you very much for your answer
(but too much hassle and winter hollidays are over...)

@jb2515:
Any hints what kind of software you did use on Amiga and PC side?
(was it capable to create ADF-files directly on PC side or did you have to create the ADF on Amiga side and the just used it for transfering?)

Reason why I'm asking:
I have about 3000 disks here and if it takes me 3min for each one (with 57600bps serial connection) its not too much fun to play the diskjockey...
 
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amiga Explorer TCP/IP via serial cable Vicky support.Other 14 06 June 2014 00:06
usb (rs232) to amiga serial cable - no COM selection in amiga explorer Galder support.Hardware 5 04 May 2014 17:14
Serial to usb + Amiga Explorer? r0ber7 support.Hardware 2 14 August 2011 14:20
Amiga Explorer and Serial PC ports? chaoticjelly support.Hardware 1 12 June 2005 16:46
Amiga Explorer/null-modem serial cable Rick0684 New to Emulation or Amiga scene 4 05 March 2005 09:45

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.08621 seconds with 13 queries