Hawk ramboard refuses 8mb ram

[rampartsagain]

retro when i mean kickro was the chips not the workbench right?
it is best to use someone like in ebay that can garantee that is for an amiga not to try ramdom edo´s

[rampartsagain]

retro i think this will help

http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/Amitek_Hawk.pdf

read page 13 line 6

if using pcmcia devices may cause incompatibility issues check that and use here is called bravo to clean pins of the edo

http://www.google.pt/imgres?um=1&hl=...r:9,s:17,i:127

Originally Posted by Retrofan

It seems a good crystal. Just 40mhz for a 40mhz Fpu. They designed it to work, so I won't be telling it can't. Remember to change the jumpers to use it.

About faster... I don't know, I just want it to play some players (some need Fpu, like AmigaAmp) and (not sure) Ibrowse has to work better/faster with it IIRC. I would like to read what you did about damage to it using the crystal.

Btw... SOMEBODY USING 8MB WITH AN AMITEK RAM BOARD?

Thanks. I think I will order.
About oscillator: Maybe I expressed badly, I read somewhere that the crystal must not be even slightly exceeds the value of the FPU frequency, to avoid damage.

About Hawk ramboard:
If the problem is only to find correct memory, then its an easier task.
We may contact some of the sellers on eBay, claiming that their card works with whole 8mb and ask for the type of memory it uses.
Still pretty strange to me that none of EDO memory that I tried, could not take advantage of 8mb.
I have not tested only the modules of 16Mb or more, but I doubt it would be a success.
Much bigger problem will be if the some cards is factory defective and if the "Amitek" knowingly sell these with 4MB only, and those that were completely correct, supplied with 8mb.

@rampartsagain
The problem cant be a PCMCIA card because I dont use it, just because am aware of that conflict between her and ramboard card.
My primary goal is to have the 8Mb, without having to buy expensive turbo accelerators.
Unfortunately, after two years I havent managed to solve this problem.
Only to try to put kickstart 3.1 Rom chips on board, instead of 3.0, with additional costs, of course and with no guarantee that it will succeed.
Maybe if someone have spare 3.1 Rom is willing to try this.

[roy bates]

hi retrofan,

is your simm double or single sided?im curios

do you have to put a 4mb simm in and set the jumpers to use 4mb?
or are you using a 8mb simm set to 4mb?


if the original simm that was in it was a single sided simm,can you try a single sided simm to see if that works,just a thught.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by roy bates

hi retrofan,

is your simm double or single sided?im curios

do you have to put a 4mb simm in and set the jumpers to use 4mb?
or are you using a 8mb simm set to 4mb?


if the original simm that was in it was a single sided simm,can you try a single sided simm to see if that works,just a thught.

It looks like a clone of the power computing one. It had jumpers, to set 4 and 8 MB.
I left mine on 4MB as I wanted pcmcia slot working.

I also used double sided EDO ram in the end.

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by FOL

It looks like a clone of the power computing one. It had jumpers, to set 4 and 8 MB.
I left mine on 4MB as I wanted pcmcia slot working.

I also used double sided EDO ram in the end.

did it have a simm in it start out with fol?

if it did what size and type was it?

I use a single sided 8Mb SIMM, with no PCMCIA card, but only 4Mb works properly, exactly as Retrofan described.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by roy bates

did it have a simm in it start out with fol?

if it did what size and type was it?

It did, Double Sided, 8MB EDO if I recall.

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by Pegaz

I use a single sided 8Mb SIMM, with no PCMCIA card, but only 4Mb works properly, exactly as Retrofan described.

exactly!

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by FOL

It did, Double Sided, 8MB EDO if I recall.

yep,exactly!


so............the answer is?

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by rampartsagain

retro when i mean kickro was the chips not the workbench right?

Yes, I've tried changing the kickstarts chips. I've got those but I WANT to leave the 3.0's. WHY? BECAUSE YOU CAN USE THE PCMCIA WITH 8MB USING THEM: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=788513&postcount=4

Originally Posted by clauddio

it seems that you have kickstart 3.1 roms on your A1200...that's because pcmcia not works

commodore in 1994 blocked pcmcia on kick 3.1 to avoid conflict with those old pcmcia ram cards...which today is not applicable to modems or lans, cf flash adapters or any new pcmcia card

install kickstart 3.0 roms and pcmcia will works fine with your turboboard + 8mb

Well, it's true that I haven't proved that really, as I can't use 8mb.

Originally Posted by roy bates

yep,exactly!


so............the answer is?

No answer yet as Fol doesn't remember using 8mb or if they were EDO, and I've got double sided Edo rams that don't work either.

Originally Posted by Pegaz

If the problem is only to find correct memory, then its an easier task.

We may contact some of the sellers on eBay, claiming that their card works with whole 8mb and ask for the type of memory it uses.

Yep, that's a good idea. See this now selling in Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MakeTrack=true

I've asked him about his ram.

[roy bates]

oh well it was worth a try,have you got any that dont have just two drams on each side?


i dont have a hawk board but i do have a rca120,which can take double sided 8mb simms but not the single sided or the type that has just two drams on each side.

My understanding was that with kick 3.1 rom installed you can only use 4mb ram, if you try to use 8mb you will knock out the pcmcia port.

With kickstart 3.0 rom you can use 8mb without affecting pcmcia port (at least this is how it is for one of my 1200 with blizzard 1220 Add4.)

Seems like the additional 4mb addressing of your board is intermittently at fault. If you're happy with jumpers, have you checked the traces on the hawk board are all intact?

[Retrofan]

I've tried 2 with 8 chips each side, and 2 with 2 chips each side. Don't know if any is Fpm or all Edos.

Originally Posted by Snoozy

... have you checked the traces on the hawk board are all intact?

Yep. At least I've done it. Don't know about the 5 other guys with the SAME problem. I even tried yesterday resoldering several pins.

EDIT: I don't know about rams, but the ones I've seen working, both have 4 caps on them (C1,C2,C3,C4). Mines don't. I would try these: http://www.ebay.es/itm/8MB-72-PIN-P1...item3375bd9f55

I have to wait to receive the ones my seller has sent me to try first, but if any wants to try buying them...
Edit: I don't want to wait twice, so I've bought one to try.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by roy bates

yep,exactly!


so............the answer is?

Double Sided, 8MB EDO RAM.

[rampartsagain]

yep fol could be that since could be limited in ram by single side banks,leaving to my initial clue on the ram cards

[Retrofan]

Not always you can use an EDO ram to substitute an FPM one: http://www.oempcworld.com/support/Ma..._Explained.htm

"Because EDO DRAM is a subset of FPM memory EDO DRAM can typically be used in place of Fast Page Mode DRAM. However, unless the memory controller is designed to use the faster EDO timing, the memory performance will be the same as Fast Page Mode.
There are three categories of Power Macintosh computers based on their level of EDO memory support. In some Power Macintosh computers, you canuse EDO memory and get some potential performance boosts. In others, you can use EDO memory even though you will not derive any benefits from doing so. Finally, there are some Power Macintosh computers in which Apple does not recommend using EDO memory because doing so may damage your computer."

EDIT: Reading the Amitek manual doesn't say much about the ram, but that

"The FAST RAM used is of the 72-pin SIMM type and is the same as the RAM avalaible in the high specification Amiga 4000."

This is from the A4000, http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a4000.html :

"Most A4000s have five 72 pin SIMM sockets on their motherboard - one for Chip RAM, the other four for Fast RAM. The sockets accept industry standard 32 or 36 bit page mode SIMMs. The four parity bits of the 36 bit modules are ignored and they function as simple 32 bit ones. EDO RAM is not supported by the motherboard RAM controller, Ramsey, but some processor cards accept it and some even use its benefits."

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Not always you can use an EDO ram to substitute an FPM one: http://www.oempcworld.com/support/Ma..._Explained.htm

"Because EDO DRAM is a subset of FPM memory EDO DRAM can typically be used in place of Fast Page Mode DRAM. However, unless the memory controller is designed to use the faster EDO timing, the memory performance will be the same as Fast Page Mode.
There are three categories of Power Macintosh computers based on their level of EDO memory support. In some Power Macintosh computers, you canuse EDO memory and get some potential performance boosts. In others, you can use EDO memory even though you will not derive any benefits from doing so. Finally, there are some Power Macintosh computers in which Apple does not recommend using EDO memory because doing so may damage your computer."

EDIT: Reading the Amitek manual doesn't say much about the ram, but that

"The FAST RAM used is of the 72-pin SIMM type and is the same as the RAM avalaible in the high specification Amiga 4000."

This is from the A4000, http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a4000.html :

"Most A4000s have five 72 pin SIMM sockets on their motherboard - one for Chip RAM, the other four for Fast RAM. The sockets accept industry standard 32 or 36 bit page mode SIMMs. The four parity bits of the 36 bit modules are ignored and they function as simple 32 bit ones. EDO RAM is not supported by the motherboard RAM controller, Ramsey, but some processor cards accept it and some even use its benefits."

What speed ram are you using, try a lower speed, like 80ns.

[Retrofan]

From the manual (http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/am...ccelerator.pdf) "The AMITEK board will accept RAM that is 80ns (nanoseconds) in speed or quicker (the lower the nanosecond rating, the faster the RAM performs)". I've tried 70ns, don't know if slower.

What is clear is that they were recomending to use the same memory of the A4000. That's the one they were using, and the A4000 says not to use EDO ram (well, that it wasn't "supported"). We aren't talking about the A4000, but as they talk about it and it says so, they were trying and using FPM. Perhaps (dunno) the A4000 accepts EDO and the Hawk doesn't.

Edit:
Now I'm "SURE" that we need to try an FPM ram. Why?

- It's not my board: Too many users with the same problem.
- It's not the speed: " " and those speeds are supported.
- 8mb ram works: Some photos and some people running it (well... and the manual, the jumpers and .... it's printed in the board...)
- It doesn't exist a rev. C with any problem using 8mb (photo above).
- They made the Hawk when Edo didn't exist: My manual from 1993, Edo from 1995.
- They say to use the same ram of the A4000 and it says Ramsey isn't compatible with EDO.
- I've tried EDO rams 100% tested byte by byte.

[rampartsagain]

well one thing is clear when i tryed to change my memory on my mtec edo didn´t work and those who conected always reboot or some time of crash never worked but since they say mtec is limited to 8mb i didn´t insist in adding more memory,but so many years passed and lose so many info on hardware but what i said is to buy one from a ebay seller that garantees it