Amiga's copying ability.

MarkYoungIW · 27 February 2009, 11:03

I was told that the amiga is one of few machines that can copy a floppy disc regardless to format, and whether it recognises it or not.

Is this true!? I am looking to copy some discs for another machine that have errors added to the end of the discs as part of the copy protection and are now getting old and likely to give up if they are not duplicated.

In the same breath, can the amiga copy alien formats to disc images!?

TIA

Mark

Loedown · 27 February 2009, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkYoungIW

I was told that the amiga is one of few machines that can copy a floppy disc regardless to format, and whether it recognises it or not.

Is this true!? I am looking to copy some discs for another machine that have errors added to the end of the discs as part of the copy protection and are now getting old and likely to give up if they are not duplicated.

In the same breath, can the amiga copy alien formats to disc images!?

TIA

Mark

I used X-Copy and managed to copy some proprietry discs, by changing the index. I also managed to copy Roland's MC-300 system / library discs. The limitation is the drive, whether it's the older Chinon style, DD or the newer HD found on the 4000 and yep, that's about where my memory of foreign file formats runs out.

Paul

MarkYoungIW · 27 February 2009, 13:19

I am looking at doing it for Acorn Archimedes discs. Basically a lot of originals I have got are getting on a bit and they use some sort of dodgy formatted tracks on the end of the disk, so was hoping of finding a way of duplicating those tracks as well.

Would be even better if there was a way of duplicating them in a disc image as well.

Thanks for your prompt reply. Any other ideas are very welcome.

QuasaR · 27 February 2009, 14:43

If the disk is of the type Archimedes DD 720K than there is a controller which supports them (using a normal pc floppy drive) namely the Catweasel MK4 (plus) PCI. This is a controller for the PC!

Manual : http://siliconsonic.de/t/catweasel-usermanual.pdf / section supported disk, ID 13.
Products site link : http://www.jschoenfeld.com/indexe.htm

This controller can be ordered @ amigakit or vesalia.

I have one @ home using it to read floppy's to adf image and write adf image to amiga disks.

MarkYoungIW · 27 February 2009, 17:56

Acorn Archimedes Discs are 800k+1600k formats, have read a few bits on Google Groups over the years that seem to suggest it might work, just trying to decide if its worth a shot at an Amiga on eBay, and if so which one and what software I should be looking at.

I can copy the Archimedes discs on a PC using a couple of programs, but where they are designed for the format they wont copy the corrupt sectors which are put into the discs as copy protection, so as before I was trying to work out whether the Amiga is likely to be fussy, or if it will just copy what it sees.

Again too, it would be even better if not only copy to disc, it could copy to a disc image.

MarkYoungIW · 27 February 2009, 18:13

In fact, I notice that the Acorn Archimedes format is mentioned at SPS, but I dont really understand what is being said. In the acorn field, there are a few disc imaging tools both on the Acorns and PC's which create an .adf disc image (I am guessing different to the Amigas .adf image!!), and thats about it. As I say though, where they understand the format they wont image the errors which is where the copy protection lies.

hit · 28 February 2009, 00:10

two intresting links:
Cyclone20 - http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=40959
OmniFloppy - http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm

since the first still needs some time, you could try the second.

prowler · 28 February 2009, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by hit

OmniFloppy - http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm

Hi hit,

OmniFloppy is a great program which supports many formats.

I haven't tried it with Archimedes floppies yet, though.

prowler

[Edit] Looks like it features Archimedes floppy support.

Quote:

22. Read, write, and format Acorn ADFS formats (ADFS S 160kB, ADFS M 320kB, ADFS L 640kB, ADFS D/E 800kB, ADFS F 1600kB).

[Edit2] OmniFloppy is for the PC, of course, not the Amiga.

MarkYoungIW · 28 February 2009, 09:54

Omniflop unfortunately encounters the same problem, where it recognises adfs it sees the apparently damaged tracks and fixes them on the copy, which is not exactly the plan.

Cyclone sounds interesting.

I did look at Catweasel before, but guessed it would probably have the same problem trying to fix the discs, although for some reason I think I just guessed it would, rather than actually finding out.

Think I have a lot of research to do.

Just kind of imagined it would be so easy to read and write MFM from and to disc and into a useable file!!!

Still think that the amiga is the way to go though as the controller seems very basic........that and I am sure I have heard of it working before.

MarkYoungIW · 28 February 2009, 11:11

Hmm......Just goes to show, look before asking!! After reading through countless threads on the forum, it seems we all suffer the same, and that the Cyclone20 and the Floppy Drive Emulator and Catweasel are in fact the way to go, in the end most of us are trying to do the same, although we want copies of the game we used to play, we are all basically looking to backup/preserve the discs we know are on their last legs, and sampling them at their most basic level MFM is the best way of doing this, as the disc images most of use use .img .adf (both acorn and amiga), dont include the necessary information that the copy protections relied on.

Well, thats what I have concluded so far.

Have to say, the amiga community is far more advance/hard working that the acorn community in these fields.

MarkYoungIW · 28 February 2009, 13:32

Actually, just so I have got this right in my head, my original interest as to whether the amiga could copy this still stands, and I guess the way to know is by whether x-copy could copy the protected games (such as Magic Pockets) on the Amiga!?

So, can anyone tell me if it could?

hit · 28 February 2009, 14:58

@prowler, yes its pc based application. but i thought it's worth to mention.
@MarkYoungIW. never used x-copy to copy archimedes disk, so i cant say.
but Cyclone20 is the device you need, i'd say. just follow the thread and you'll see when its ready. this wil give for sure better results than catweasel or any software-only solution.

MarkYoungIW · 28 February 2009, 15:24

Many thanks for that. After reading many many articles, and posts I have pretty much come to that conclusion. The only other thing I am waiting to hear back on is from SoftPres as I notice they talk about imaging Acorn Archimedes Discs, so waiting to hear what they have to say.

Having read the Cyclone20 thread I think its certainly the most interesting. Hope it has a floppy drive emulator too for the real machine!! Would be even better if it was possible to emulate a floppy disc like those cartridges you used to put into you car Tape Player to plug a discman into if you know what I mean. Just for the old chugging nostalga!!

Loedown · 28 February 2009, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkYoungIW

Actually, just so I have got this right in my head, my original interest as to whether the amiga could copy this still stands, and I guess the way to know is by whether x-copy could copy the protected games (such as Magic Pockets) on the Amiga!?

So, can anyone tell me if it could?

I think your biggest problem here is, I don't own any Acorn disks, so I cannot check it, although I do know that using an index of 3174, ironicaly the postcode of Noble Park, where the gang came from called 3174, was the magic number for copying an error protected proprietry software disk. As for Roland's MC-300, using the option Index was the way to go. I am not sure who can say for sure what will copy what, but for the expense of picking up an old Amiga 500, getting a copy of the software isn't hard and as long as you have some way of watching video on something, ie. running the Amiga signal into the video in of a TV, or even an old VCR connected to your TV, picture quality will be bloody awful, but good enough to mess around. I don't know what a Miggy goes for in your part of the world, but I am sure that someone's got an old 500 to spare, or Ebay?

Quite often X-Copy can give you info on any disc and if not, I am sure someone here can help with the index setting? This is all just conjecture and if I am wrong, someone let me know, I have no issue with it.

Paul

MarkYoungIW · 28 February 2009, 15:41

Yeah, think I will pick one up, as you say, they are pennies on eBay.

Where would I look for getting XCopy though!? Guess its floating round the net, or is it still under copyright!?

With regard to my last, seems floppy disc emulation is possible........although nowadays, anything is!!!

Smarty

TCD · 28 February 2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkYoungIW

Where would I look for getting XCopy though!? Guess its floating round the net, or is it still under copyright!?

Have a look on Magix FTP (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=38697) in the folder 'The Zone!'. You should use a FTP client, because there are quite a few files in that folder, so your browser might time out

DamienD · 28 February 2009, 17:48

***cough***

MarkYoungIW · 28 February 2009, 20:27

Thanks for the above!!

Will have a look at that, just got to get an A500 or something first.

Thanks again.

whiteb · 28 February 2009, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

***cough***

I'd go see a chemist for that cough of yours Damien

27 February 2009, 11:03	#1
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Amiga's copying ability. I was told that the amiga is one of few machines that can copy a floppy disc regardless to format, and whether it recognises it or not. Is this true!? I am looking to copy some discs for another machine that have errors added to the end of the discs as part of the copy protection and are now getting old and likely to give up if they are not duplicated. In the same breath, can the amiga copy alien formats to disc images!? TIA Mark

27 February 2009, 14:43	#4
QuasaR Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 11	If the disk is of the type Archimedes DD 720K than there is a controller which supports them (using a normal pc floppy drive) namely the Catweasel MK4 (plus) PCI. This is a controller for the PC! Manual : http://siliconsonic.de/t/catweasel-usermanual.pdf / section supported disk, ID 13. Products site link : http://www.jschoenfeld.com/indexe.htm This controller can be ordered @ amigakit or vesalia. I have one @ home using it to read floppy's to adf image and write adf image to amiga disks. Last edited by QuasaR; 27 February 2009 at 14:50.

28 February 2009, 11:11	#10
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Hmm......Just goes to show, look before asking!! After reading through countless threads on the forum, it seems we all suffer the same, and that the Cyclone20 and the Floppy Drive Emulator and Catweasel are in fact the way to go, in the end most of us are trying to do the same, although we want copies of the game we used to play, we are all basically looking to backup/preserve the discs we know are on their last legs, and sampling them at their most basic level MFM is the best way of doing this, as the disc images most of use use .img .adf (both acorn and amiga), dont include the necessary information that the copy protections relied on. Well, thats what I have concluded so far. Have to say, the amiga community is far more advance/hard working that the acorn community in these fields. Last edited by MarkYoungIW; 28 February 2009 at 11:24.

28 February 2009, 15:41	#15
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Yeah, think I will pick one up, as you say, they are pennies on eBay. Where would I look for getting XCopy though!? Guess its floating round the net, or is it still under copyright!? With regard to my last, seems floppy disc emulation is possible........although nowadays, anything is!!! Smarty Last edited by MarkYoungIW; 28 February 2009 at 16:19.

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27 February 2009, 13:19	#3
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	I am looking at doing it for Acorn Archimedes discs. Basically a lot of originals I have got are getting on a bit and they use some sort of dodgy formatted tracks on the end of the disk, so was hoping of finding a way of duplicating those tracks as well. Would be even better if there was a way of duplicating them in a disc image as well. Thanks for your prompt reply. Any other ideas are very welcome.

27 February 2009, 17:56	#5
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Acorn Archimedes Discs are 800k+1600k formats, have read a few bits on Google Groups over the years that seem to suggest it might work, just trying to decide if its worth a shot at an Amiga on eBay, and if so which one and what software I should be looking at. I can copy the Archimedes discs on a PC using a couple of programs, but where they are designed for the format they wont copy the corrupt sectors which are put into the discs as copy protection, so as before I was trying to work out whether the Amiga is likely to be fussy, or if it will just copy what it sees. Again too, it would be even better if not only copy to disc, it could copy to a disc image.

27 February 2009, 18:13	#6
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	In fact, I notice that the Acorn Archimedes format is mentioned at SPS, but I dont really understand what is being said. In the acorn field, there are a few disc imaging tools both on the Acorns and PC's which create an .adf disc image (I am guessing different to the Amigas .adf image!!), and thats about it. As I say though, where they understand the format they wont image the errors which is where the copy protection lies.

28 February 2009, 00:10	#7
hit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,115	two intresting links: Cyclone20 - http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=40959 OmniFloppy - http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm since the first still needs some time, you could try the second.

28 February 2009, 09:54	#9
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Omniflop unfortunately encounters the same problem, where it recognises adfs it sees the apparently damaged tracks and fixes them on the copy, which is not exactly the plan. Cyclone sounds interesting. I did look at Catweasel before, but guessed it would probably have the same problem trying to fix the discs, although for some reason I think I just guessed it would, rather than actually finding out. Think I have a lot of research to do. Just kind of imagined it would be so easy to read and write MFM from and to disc and into a useable file!!! Still think that the amiga is the way to go though as the controller seems very basic........that and I am sure I have heard of it working before.

28 February 2009, 13:32	#11
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Actually, just so I have got this right in my head, my original interest as to whether the amiga could copy this still stands, and I guess the way to know is by whether x-copy could copy the protected games (such as Magic Pockets) on the Amiga!? So, can anyone tell me if it could?

28 February 2009, 14:58	#12
hit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,115	@prowler, yes its pc based application. but i thought it's worth to mention. @MarkYoungIW. never used x-copy to copy archimedes disk, so i cant say. but Cyclone20 is the device you need, i'd say. just follow the thread and you'll see when its ready. this wil give for sure better results than catweasel or any software-only solution.

28 February 2009, 15:24	#13
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Many thanks for that. After reading many many articles, and posts I have pretty much come to that conclusion. The only other thing I am waiting to hear back on is from SoftPres as I notice they talk about imaging Acorn Archimedes Discs, so waiting to hear what they have to say. Having read the Cyclone20 thread I think its certainly the most interesting. Hope it has a floppy drive emulator too for the real machine!! Would be even better if it was possible to emulate a floppy disc like those cartridges you used to put into you car Tape Player to plug a discman into if you know what I mean. Just for the old chugging nostalga!!

28 February 2009, 17:48	#17
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	*cough*

28 February 2009, 20:27	#18
MarkYoungIW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 154	Thanks for the above!! Will have a look at that, just got to get an A500 or something first. Thanks again.

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