Cloanto debate

[guru64]

* The fuckin Kickstart and Workbench should by now be a free download. Those fatass execs who managed to buy the rights are making cash off Amiga Nostalgia fans with something they didn't contribute the slightest to develop.

* On their Website they state " This makes it possible to run thousands of Amiga games and demos which are available for free download from software publishers and Amiga history sites alike."
- Yeah right, they should add "from Amiga history sites which we haven't yet harrased, sued and tried to milk for cash".

* On one hand they are 'protecting' the Kickstart from 'being pirated', and on the other hand they try to sell their glorious overpriced package by seducing their customers to download Amiga games for free.
Basically a "don't pirate OUR stuff, but we don't give a shit about all the games by other companies and their rights".

* Most of the Amiga Forever package comes from other people's hard work: Linux, UAE, Fellow, Demos (even by Pirate Group!!! Scoopex), Picasse96, etc, etc.
So basically they sell 'their' Kernel for 40 bucks on a CD where 98% of content is just picked up from other peoples work...

It would be better for the whole Amiga scene if that company just died!

taken from http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/3-122.html

"We like to believe that Amiga emulation has in general been well-accepted also because, thanks to Amiga Forever, it is properly licensed and supported. If that were not the case, the situation of Amiga emulation in 1997 or 1998 could have been similar to what happened to other systems: police raids, legal actions, court battles, etc. Under such circumstances, many programmers, as they have stated, would not create any Amiga emulation software, or any new versions thereof, and there may be little left of the Amiga emulation scene. Instead, Amiga emulation evolved and prospered."

[Magno Boots]

The above is an automated reply. Please do not respond.

(Well it looks that way because of no apparent human input)

I quote: 'I will say this before I leave this forum forever'

Why don't you get some mouthpiece from Cloanto to defend Amiga Forever instead of you taking all the shit?

It isn't your product is it?

I have returned Magno Boots, get over it!
And why do you defend democracy, it is not your product, is it?
Well, you don't need to answer it because I am not going to argue with you anyway as your previous post was really very very friendly.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

taken from http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/3-122.html

"We like to believe that Amiga emulation has in general been well-accepted also because, thanks to Amiga Forever, it is properly licensed and supported. If that were not the case, the situation of Amiga emulation in 1997 or 1998 could have been similar to what happened to other systems: police raids, legal actions, court battles, etc. Under such circumstances, many programmers, as they have stated, would not create any Amiga emulation software, or any new versions thereof, and there may be little left of the Amiga emulation scene. Instead, Amiga emulation evolved and prospered."

indeed: MAME, ZSNES, HazeMD, Atari800WinPlus, atari++, Cyberstella, Emu7800, Handy, Stella, xf25, SainT, Steem, VColecoWin, CCS64, Frodo, minus4w, winvice, Caprice32, CoPaCabana, WinAPE, wincpc, Neoragex, Raine, Nebula, Winkawaks, DOSBox, Chankast,CowBite, Rascalboy, VisualBoyAdvance, blueMSX, openMSX, fakenes, Jnes, Nesticle, Nestopia, nintendulator, virtuanes, Gens32, KEGA, wgens, dse, EmuZWIN, snem, snesgt, snes9x, dcmo5, oswan, they all wouldn't be now if not for properly licensed and supported software.

I just quoted the website... Anyway I think lot of programmers would really have left the scene much earlier. The platform would exist of course, however with 1998 software as the latest... Who knows.

[guru64]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

I just quoted the website... Anyway I think lot of programmers would really have left the scene much earlier. The platform would exist of course, however with 1998 software as the latest... Who knows.

you're talking about 1998 software? At that time the Amiga was already dead a long time in my opinion. See, I only count 68xxx machines as Amigas. Some of the newer hardware may have been nice to work with, but they were no Amiga anymore I don't care what name they carried, it just didn't work out. So for me, the Amiga was the machine with the cool custom chips,
ahead of it's time, and not some PPC or whatever thing.
PS. I also was a bit thrilled (during 2000 or so) when rumour spread that the new Amiga would carry the wonderous Transmeta chip. but as all other developments it proved to be either crap, fake, unfinished, or whatever. So get a clue guys, Amiga is dead - although it's still a great thing to own, work and have fun with. All future developments ARE NOT Amigas. There may come cool things, new tech, but for heaven's sake give it another name and let this great machine rest in peace.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

I just quoted the website... Anyway I think lot of programmers would really have left the scene much earlier. The platform would exist of course, however with 1998 software as the latest... Who knows.

sure, you quoted what they, in their words, "like to believe", wich is, imho, very, very far from reality. also, i don't think that holding the copyrights for a thing means ipso facto supporting the development and spreading of an object that don't works without that thing. don't mix advertising with reality, they are two different games.

Sure, maybe you're right. However they are the licence holder and that's an objetive fact. They invested their money into it like every other company which want to make profit. And who said Amiga is charity? Similiarly I was annoyed by the status of MUI. Author still asks the shareware fee for it even though the software hasn't been updated for 10 years!!! But it is his right to ask the fee. He invested lot of time and energy into MUI. That's life.

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by guru64

* The fuckin Kickstart and Workbench should by now be a free download. Those fatass execs who managed to buy the rights are making cash off Amiga Nostalgia fans with something they didn't contribute the slightest to develop.

* On their Website they state " This makes it possible to run thousands of Amiga games and demos which are available for free download from software publishers and Amiga history sites alike."
- Yeah right, they should add "from Amiga history sites which we haven't yet harrased, sued and tried to milk for cash".

* On one hand they are 'protecting' the Kickstart from 'being pirated', and on the other hand they try to sell their glorious overpriced package by seducing their customers to download Amiga games for free.
Basically a "don't pirate OUR stuff, but we don't give a shit about all the games by other companies and their rights".

* Most of the Amiga Forever package comes from other people's hard work: Linux, UAE, Fellow, Demos (even by Pirate Group!!! Scoopex), Picasse96, etc, etc.
So basically they sell 'their' Kernel for 40 bucks on a CD where 98% of content is just picked up from other peoples work...

It would be better for the whole Amiga scene if that company just died!

Amen.

do you think if you kill the baker the bread will be free the next day?

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

do you think if you kill the baker the bread will be free the next day?

Well, I'd encourage people to bake their own bread instead. And then we do have a nice friend in Toni, who supplies us with some of the necessary ingredients for free

finally, some constructive approach!

[T_hairy_bootson]

You shouldnt have to pay for 20 year old flour...

[Whitesnake]

The solution is simple, ClassicWB is a much superior setup.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

Sure, maybe you're right. However they are the licence holder and that's an objetive fact. They invested their money into it like every other company which want to make profit. And who said Amiga is charity? Similiarly I was annoyed by the status of MUI. Author still asks the shareware fee for it even though the software hasn't been updated for 10 years!!! But it is his right to ask the fee. He invested lot of time and energy into MUI. That's life.

i never said that they are not entitled to do their businness. i just say their businnes is, imho, more of a damage to the scene than, as they put it, a blessing. it is like you say, there's nothing about charity in this.

Originally Posted by Whitesnake

The solution is simple, ClassicWB is a much superior setup.

yes, to me too.

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

finally, some constructive approach!

Yeah, my constructive approach was basically that we'd better put that baker out of business because he's just making a profit off of bread baked from old ingredients that the majority out there would refuse to eat I would normally not pay money for 20-year-old food. It might even be hazardous to your health to eat it you know :P

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

You shouldnt have to pay for 20 year old flour...

Is AmigaOS3.x really so old? If you want something, you should pay for it. That's fair. Supply&Demand. Comunism doesn't work, really. They were trying it here for about 40 years and, at the end, it turned out there is nobody to make the bread anymore (if we keep using the metaphores of course).

[fisken uno]

Originally Posted by glwxxx

Is AmigaOS3.x really so old? If you want something, you should pay for it. That's fair. Supply&Demand. Comunism doesn't work, really. They were trying it here for about 40 years and, at the end, it turned out there is nobody to make the bread anymore (if we keep using the metaphores of course).

That's why people should buy a used Amiga (not that hard to find really) and transfer the kickstart themselves. Or download a kickstart on the internet after they bought the machine. Anything BUT supporting Cloanto

Originally Posted by fisken uno

Yeah, my constructive approach was basically that we'd better put that baker out of business because he's just making a profit off of bread baked from old ingredients that the majority out there would refuse to eat I would normally not pay money for 20-year-old food. It might even be hazardous to your health to eat it you know :P

Instead of putting someone out of his business you can always run your own bakery. This would be a real contructive approach.