Remapping is tough, pls help!

[svabos]

I just can't figure out how remapping keys work so please help me.
I have WinUAE 3.5.0. Also I have joystick with 10 buttons.

the config I want is:
Port 1: Joystick (custom set up)
Port 2: Keyboard layout B (standard setup)

So only thing I need is to customize keys on my joystick and to add few keyboard keys on it. It should look like this:
UP - JOY UP
DOWN - JOY DOWN
LEFT - JOY LEFT
RIGHT - JOY RIGHT
FIRE - JOY BTN 5
FIRE 2 (RMB) - JOY BTN 3
L.SHIFT - JOY BTN 7
BACKSPACE - JOY BTN 8

that's is. But i just can't do it because it wont let me remap standard "USB JOYSTICK" setup so I need to choose "Custom 1" and there I set it as "joystick" and in remap I add key layout like I want but funny thing is that only "L.SHIFT - JOY BTN 7" works
I've searched for the answer and as I can see, theres some strange joke to mess with "Input" option but that is more complex and confusing than remapping in "game ports"

help!

[Toni Wilen]

Since few releases ago only "Custom" entries can be remapped (reason: now it is possible to have multiple customized configs)

Do you mean when you use remap or test function, only button 7 shows any activity? (text string appears at the bottom part of window)

Or do you mean remapping works but it does not work in game? Does it still work if you enter test mode?

[svabos]

In testing every button works but in game it doesn't

also I just stumbled upon strange bug(?):
I'm setting keys/gameport devices from ingame (I've loaded game North & south and pressed F12 to get into the menu to set up the devices)
The strange thing is that in the game the joystick doesn't work when it's set to port 1 but it works when it's set to port 2 and it controls player 1. Also when the joystick is set to port1 and Keyboard layout 2 in port 2, the keyboard starts to control player 1 but when I change it to Keyboard layout 3 then it controls player 2 ?!?!

for my goal I don't really care in which port is joystick and in which is keyboard, only thing I need is to be able to use customized keys on joystick

[DamienD]

Heya svabos,

Welcome to EAB

You probably don't know this, but most Amiga games are set as follows:

Port 1 = Player 2
Port 2 = Player 1

Usually one would have a mouse connected to Port 1 and a joystick connected to Port 2.

Works great when playing solo games

If you want to play with 2 players though, you then swap the mouse in Port 1 to another joystick.

Yeah I know, crazy, but that's how it's always been...

[svabos]

DamienD, thnx for info, but i know everything about amiga, I've had A500 25yhrs ago and have been playing on WinUAE for at least 15 yhrs
problem is that now for the first time i want to configure my arcade joystick in a way that i don't need to use keyboard on some games, like North & south, where even if you played the game with joystick, you had to use some keys on keyboard (for changing army type or to withdraw from battle). so only problem now is how to set that up on WinUAE
I need that setup because now I'm learning my daughter to play amiga games and I wish that she could use only arcade joystick for everything, as it is something that I've dreamed to be able to do from my childhood...

anywayz, is it possible to fully customize keys or?

[Toni Wilen]

There are two ways to customize:

Game Ports panel, which is much easier to use but by default only lists Amiga game port events (directions, buttons). But you can use "Add event" button to add any not-listed event (including keys) manually, one by one. Note that list shows Amiga-side events. There is no need for "Add event" button if you only need to map PC keys (or mouse or stick/pad) to Amiga joystick port.

If you still have problems with custom events, attach your config file and I'll take a look.

btw, make sure you don't have any keyboard layouts in other port(s) with keys that conflict with your custom settings. Default layout will win.

Then there is complex Input panel. I recommend to not use it unless you need more special customizations, like different event for presses and releases or multiple events or change config etc..

[svabos]

Hey Toni
So I've set up in North & south config that port 1 will be keyboard with custom layout set on "gamepad" base. I've mapped arrow keys as directions and that works in game. I've tried to map joy fire/LMB as "L" and "RCONTROL" and joy 2nd as "K" key but those key don't work. funny thing is that I haven't mapped "space" key anywhere but it acts as port 1 joy fire...

In port 2 I've set usb joystick with custom layout of "default" and successfully mapped every key as I wanted, even added that button 7 acts as "left shift" and button 8 as "Tab"

So only thing that bothers me is why I can't map joy 1 fire in port 1 as I want it?

Here's North & south config file:
https://files.fm/u/4rdqwr8t

[Toni Wilen]

Config looks fine.

funny thing is that I haven't mapped "space" key anywhere but it acts as port 1 joy fire...

Game feature most likely (space = fire, unless you remap PC space key not to be Amiga space key)

You sure game is in 2 player joystick mode, not in joystick + keyboard?

[svabos]

I'm not really sure what you mean by "game is in 2 player joystick mode, not in joystick + keyboard?"

Here are the screencaps of Gameport and Input

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by svabos

I'm not really sure what you mean by "game is in 2 player joystick mode, not in joystick + keyboard?"

I meant how game itself is configured. I think North&South had joystick/keyboard or 2xjoystick (plus 1-2 keys for both players in both modes) option in main menu.

[svabos]

As I remember, the game could be played only with two joysticks and had 2 keyboard keys per player (L & R shifts to change army type and ESC and TAB to retreat from battlefield)

I'm confused how remapping of keys isn't something universal, like it is in MAME emulator. WinUAE is great and very detailed emulator but boy, the choice for flexibility of controls is stiff as hell...

[Toni Wilen]

Standard answer: consoles or arcades don't have keyboards and they mainly have very few supported input configurations. Easy and intuitive to reconfigure.

Amiga can have keyboard, mouse, joystick, joysticks in parallel port adapter, cdtv pad, cd32 pad, lightpen, pads with differently wired buttons, analog joysticks, paddles and more. In any possible combination. All of them must be supported. I don't like simple but restrictive basic options.

[svabos]

Toni, I understand.
So what should I do to get desired mapping of keys in games, like for example in N&S?

[Toni Wilen]

I am not yet sure if you mean PC key to Amiga key or PC key to Amiga joystick?

Your config has PC joystick button to Amiga shift and joystick button to Amiga TAB. Do you mean these are not working?

Lets forget about games for now and do this to confirm it: boot to WB, open shell/cli window. Then try joystick to key mapping. Does matching character appear in window? (Map button to some normal letter or number key, shift and tab are not such a good idea in this test). If they do work, then the problem is game specific, not emulator specific.

[svabos]

I've tried keys with WB:
I've used in port 1 a keyboard acting as gamepad with "L" and "RCTRL" as fire and it works in WB, when I've moved cursor over the icon and pressed L or RCTRL, I've activated the icon/program, so it acts as Joy fire button...

so that meant the problem is in Nort&south game and not in key remapping?

[Toni Wilen]

It probably is game "problem" (or more like game expecting something else)

You can confirm it by running winuae in windowed mode with -log -inputdevicelog 1 command line parameters. ("winuae.exe -log -inputdevicelog 1") Log window opens that shows all Amiga-side input events. (if you add "-inputlog 7", you also see all PC side events in log window)

[svabos]

Ok, heres the log:
when I press fre button 5 on joy (port 2) i get:
STATE=00001 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy2 Fire/Mouse2 Left Button'
STATE=00001 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy1 Fire/Mouse1 Left Button'
STATE=00001 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy2 Fire/Mouse2 Left Button'
STATE=00000 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy2 Fire/Mouse2 Left Button'
STATE=00000 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy1 Fire/Mouse1 Left Button'
STATE=00000 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy2 Fire/Mouse2 Left Button'

and it fires normally in game as player 2


and when I press the RCTRL on keyboard (port 1) i get:
STATE=00001 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy1 Fire/Mouse1 Left Button'
STATE=00000 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Joy1 Fire/Mouse1 Left Button'

nothing happens and it should fire as player 1

When I press SPACE which fires player 1 i get:
STATE=00001 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Space'
Amiga key 40 0
STATE=00000 MAX=00001 AF=0 QUAL=000000 'Space'
Amiga key 40 1

I'm not any smarter from this info :/
and is it normal that every command is duplicated twice on execution? I've pasted exact number of occurrences. Also movement occurs as two repeats and fire on joy as three..

[Toni Wilen]

Two events, first is press event (STATE not zero), second is release event (STATE=0).

Amiga key 0x40 = Amiga space key.

So it looks like mapping is working. It still sounds like game is not reading mouse port but expects some keys only.

[svabos]

Ok, now I've remembered: originaly the game could be only played via one joystick as p1 and mouse + keyboard as p2. The mouse could be used by both players for moving around the map. Once in battle mode, p2 keys on the keyboard were arrows and space for shooting

so conclusion is that for N&S I should map the SPACE as fire

also I've tested upper claim by setting mouse in port1 and played the game and it works just like that: arrows and space...

now i get the mapping in total: in custom mapping, if I'm using keyboard, the keys should be mapped same as game intended them because PC keyboard is regarded as amiga keyboard by default, so choosing the some other key as fire won't work because it reads the PC keyboard as amiga keyboard

problem solved, many thanks Toni!

Now I'm of to figure out how to install Gamebase fronted so my daughter can just plug&play games...

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by svabos

now i get the mapping in total: in custom mapping, if I'm using keyboard, the keys should be mapped same as game intended them because PC keyboard is regarded as amiga keyboard by default, so choosing the some other key as fire won't work because it reads the PC keyboard as amiga keyboard

Exactly. This is the "problem" with computer emulators, PC keyboard becomes "dual use"

It can get confusing when some PC key works as Amiga key but some other PC key works as Amiga joystick direction or button. (It doing both would be extremely confusing, thats why normal mapping always overrides Amiga keyboard event if key is mapped to joystick)